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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 30 January 2005 02:15
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- mods, if you think this should be in members rides please move? thanks.
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Hi all, I'm finally going to get started on my 3S-GTE conversion. I thought i'd keep a thread running with pics and information as the build up progresses. As everyone asks about RWD 3SGTE conversions at least once a week it might benifit a lot of people?
It's going to take awhile from start to finish. I'm guessing at least 6 months.
A bit of information about where i'm at so far...
ST185 block with a ST205 head.
2S bellhousing, engine mounts, starter motor, sump & pickup.
CP forged pistons - 8.5 compression, .5mm oversized.
Shot peened rods.
ARP rod bolts.
ARP headstuds.
Custom made 7.5kg flywheel (designed for RWD application).
New Genuine Toyota oil pump, water pump, timing gear(pulleys, belts, tensioners, etc).
Thats about all I have for it so far.
I'm building it all up in a RA28 frontcut (thanks Witzl!) using a TA23 xmember. I'll be converting the TA23 xmember to rack & pinion using a similar but slightly improved design that is already in my RA28.
Well here is a few pics...
Front cut after a good clean. Was a real mess before. Should be nicer to work on now.
Bare ST185 3S-GTE block. No machine work has been done yet.
2S sump & pickup.
2S sump on the left, 3S sump on the right. The 3S sump has much better baffling. I'm going to look at cutting some of this off and moving it over to the 2S sump.
2S pickup bolted to the block. Someone mentioned there was a problem with the legs bolting up. I had no problems with this though, everything lined up fine.
2S engine mount on the passenger side. All 4 bolts lined up perfect.
2S engine mount on the driver side. 2 of the 4 bolts lined up.
Here you can see the problem with the engine mount on the driver side. Will need to make some mods to the bracket or a new one. I know someone who runs a RWD 3SGE in Improved production racing. He only uses 2 of the 4 holes (with a custom mount, not the 2S one) for the engine mount and has had no problems. I cant help thinking if using 2 bolts can stand up to a race car maybe it'll be ok for a road car?
Just for some fun I sat the ST205 head on to make sure it fitted. Everything seems fine.
Here are the CP forged pistons.
Well thats about it for now. At the moment its really just preperation work and nothing exciting yet.
The first job is to setup the TA23 xmember with the rack mounted and then I can bolt it into the frontcut. From there i can start working on engine mounts so the engine can be bolted in.
Does everyone think this should be under tech & conversions or it should be more a members - ride thing?
So what's everyone think so far??
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 30 January 2005 02:40
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Nice pics 
Should be interesting to follow your conversion(i love reading tech articles on things i wish i had the money to do  )
I'd say it belongs in tech & conversions until the finished product is installed in your car
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 30 January 2005 03:25
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Great work. This needs to be made into a tech article when you're done, to save explaining it to a different person every couple of days!
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 30 January 2005 05:38
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Yep this one's staying in tech and conversions.
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I supported Toymods
Toymods Club Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 30 January 2005 05:56
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Have already added it to the FAQs page, along with Shane's engine mount thread
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Location:
western queensland
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 30 January 2005 06:59
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i see you left out the windage tray splash plate under the pickup, this was my problem, to keep the tray and space the pickup
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Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 30 January 2005 07:46
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Priceless information there. This should definately be made into a tech article.
Reassured my curiousity about the enginemount on the drivers side.
Block looks very familiar 
Cheers,
James
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 30 January 2005 07:49
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Cool glad everyone likes this being in tech & conversions. Its good what Cool1 did with the engine mounts write-up also as makes it all the more imformative!
Rokusan, what splash tray are you refering to? Hmm I didn't realise I left anything out... ???
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 30 January 2005 07:52
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| rokusan wrote on Sun, 30 January 2005 16:59 |
i see you left out the windage tray splash plate under the pickup, this was my problem, to keep the tray and space the pickup
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You must have a weird oil pickup, because my pickup fits perfect with the splash tray.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 30 January 2005 07:54
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Hey does anyone have some pics for ideas of the water outlet out the back of the head?
I noticed the ST205 head has 2 water holes out the back of the head. The main large one and then a smaller one.
I am thinking just an alloy plate with either a very large barb fitting tapped into it, probably need to be a 90 degree barb.
My mates VR4 engine that was converted to RWD suffered the same water outlet problem the 3S does. We had a plate made on that with like a cup welded to the plate, then welded a pipe to that cap.. Hard to explain without pics.
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
western queensland
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 30 January 2005 08:01
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i used magna one
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
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May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 30 January 2005 08:04
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| TurboRA28 wrote on Sun, 30 January 2005 17:54 |
Hey does anyone have some pics for ideas of the water outlet out the back of the head?
I noticed the ST205 head has 2 water holes out the back of the head. The main large one and then a smaller one.
I am thinking just an alloy plate with either a very large barb fitting tapped into it, probably need to be a 90 degree barb.
My mates VR4 engine that was converted to RWD suffered the same water outlet problem the 3S does. We had a plate made on that with like a cup welded to the plate, then welded a pipe to that cap.. Hard to explain without pics.
Cheers
Joel
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Joel the 205 head only has one large water outlet. I'll get some pics for you. Also can you get me on msn or 1cq. Need to get some photos from you too.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 30 January 2005 08:18
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Rokusan, so a magna water outlet is a close fit is it??
Here is a pic of the water outlet. See the smaller one to the left? This seems to be connected to the larger one.
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 30 January 2005 08:35
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I believe the smaller one is the water feed for the turbo.
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Location:
western queensland
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 30 January 2005 08:36
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mines an MR2 head, maybe it's different? 
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 30 January 2005 08:56
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Hey Joshstix, thanks mate that'd make sense.
I figure I should tackle the water outlet before trying to mount the engine as this will be part of determining firewall clearance.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 30 January 2005 09:53
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i VERY VERY much like this thread existing.
Joel - no worries with the old car, glad to be of assistance. Sorry it was such a mess, i guess i had too much fun filling it with oil and grease whilst it was in my front yard
Need to grab that gear back one day too.
Joel and Shane - i would VERY much like to host a tech article page for both of your conversions. As much as i have searched like a mofo for RWD 3sgte conversion data i have found very little available. If you guys are cool with it i would like it to happen, and go up on http://www.witzl.com , i can even update it frequently for you
I like your work - keep it up, and make sure you put us all to shame
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 30 January 2005 22:44
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Yeah mate i'm happy for all this info to be distributed around any way possible. As like you say there is some write-ups on 3sgte rwd conversions but nothing real definate and no pics to go along with it.
Maybe we can combine Cool1's stuff with mine to make it easier? Or have like a link to each part of the conversion depending who wrote it up. Either way...
For now i'll keep everything I am doing here in this thread though.
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 31 January 2005 02:58
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Hey Joel,
I have a pic of the simple T-piece i used on the TA22 (not to mention heaps on all the other work) so drop me an email and i'll send it to you (no ERL to post here). It was important for me to keep it as close to the head as possible so i could place the engine as far back as possible.
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 31 January 2005 03:48
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Hi Joel,
I would be kind of leaning towards 4 bolts are better than 2 with the engine mount.
Cheers
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 31 January 2005 05:45
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As would i for the engine mount. Mainly because of the extra vibration on the road due to the harsh surface. On the track you have very little vertical vibrations which would act as a shear force on the bolts. I do suggest you do similar to Shane's mounts. Similar reason to why i can run 8kg/6kg springs and not have any issues on the track.
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Location:
Low Head (Tasmania)
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 31 January 2005 06:31
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what sort of bearings did you use/are you using? hope they are ACL ones (as i work there),
and JustenGT4 i read you article in speed, i thought it seemed a waste to cut up a genuine RC (i had one afterall) but i have 2 say its wikkid, good work. hope mine ends up as successful as yours.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 31 January 2005 08:22
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Hey Justen any pics you have of the conversion would be great! The more the better please email to joel_fitzgerald@hotmail.com
Yeah I'll go with 4 bolts for the engine mount. Shanes setup seems quiet neat and simple.
Bearings I was going to run NDC as have never had a problem with them in the past. NDC or ACL would both be good yeah?
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Location:
nelson, new zealand
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Tue, 01 February 2005 00:21
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very nice job, good to see those bits going to a nice home!
an article would be a good idea.... so often ppla re told to do a search on info, and so often it turns up useless info or tangent threads (im not nesicarliy referring to this site)
so i good clear consice guide woudl be good.
nice job joel
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Tue, 01 February 2005 00:25
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Hey mate hows it going? Yup all your parts are going to a good home currently all packed away in boxes until the actual final build of it starts.
I'm trying to sell off the headgasket kit parts (headgakset, inlet & exhaust gasket etc) that I got from you as those wont be any good on the ST205 head.. So hopefully they sell and I'll get the ST205 bits from you
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Tue, 01 February 2005 03:32
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No probs Joel,
I sent you a heap earlier today so let me know if they came thru OK. You need any more you just have to ask.
GotBoost- I have another Grp (or should say had as it just sold) so it was just a case of having the best of both worlds
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Location:
Vancouver
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Tue, 01 February 2005 07:56
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did you peel 5mm off the bellhousing/block flange to stick the input shaft into the bearing, or does your flywheel move the bearing out further? what pilot bearing are you using? can you post a picture of your flywheel?
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Tue, 01 February 2005 10:47
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The bearing still sits in the crank but the guy who had the flywheel made up used to run it with a double row? spigot bearing. That gets away from the problem of having to shave anything off the bellhousing.
The flywheel is designed to sit futher out away from the block though so all the clutch fork/bearing etc is aligned correctly. Also the ring gear is the correct distance from the starter motor.
Supposedly its designed off the RWD beams 3SGE.
Here is a pic :
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 02 February 2005 03:22
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The bearing is in the crank so the flywheel has no impact on spigot bearing position? On my conversion there was enough of the input shaft into the spigot bearing that the bellhousing didn't need to be touched.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 02 February 2005 03:54
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Yeah thats right, flywheel has no impact on bearing position.
I was recommended though to use one of these dual or double row bearings ( cant remember the exact name sorry ). Look like a normal spigot bearing but are around twice as long so more of the input shaft is supported.
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 02 February 2005 04:03
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I just used a stock one but that sounds like a good idea Joel
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 02 February 2005 04:03
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| TurboRA28 wrote on Wed, 02 February 2005 14:54 |
Yeah thats right, flywheel has no impact on bearing position.
I was recommended though to use one of these dual or double row bearings ( cant remember the exact name sorry ). Look like a normal spigot bearing but are around twice as long so more of the input shaft is supported.
Cheers
Joel
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just a question from curiosity, how can u tell the input shaft is in the double row spigot bearing enough not to be putting pressure on the crank ala-skips 1JZ's horrible p00 death
i was thinking mating the box to the engine with no flywheel and looking into the hole for clutch fork?
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Location:
Borneo - Land of the Head...
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 03 February 2005 10:25
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There is a spigot bearing that fits the in the 3SGTE crank that is about 16mm wide, which Im currently using. The number on it is 62201, which is an oversize bearing of 6201(8mm) used in the 2C. I just asked for something wider than the original 8mm, theres another type that is 14mm wide but 16mm is the widest according to the guy at the bearing distributor.
Vern
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 13 February 2005 02:00
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Hi all, time for a quick update. Not a lot has happened since this last post as had a few diff issues that have been taking up my time.
Rob_RA40 yeah I think the idea of mating box to engine with no flywheel and looking in the clutch fork area is a good idea. Or maybe leaving the sump off and flex/sandwitch plate (think thats the name of the thin metal plate between block and bellhousing?).
Thanks GA22GT for the part number and info on the bearing! I'll drop into the local bearing shop soon and suss it out. Thanks!
Today I worked on the rear water outlet.. here is what I got so far :
Here is the plate for the rear water outlet. It is made from 3.5mm stainless.
The large outlet will be used to go to the radiator. The smaller one on the left hand side will be for the turbo.
Here is the 90 degree pipe on it. This is 30mm or so OS diameter. Basically the same size as the original 3s-gte one.
This shows a rough idea of what the radiator pipe might look like.
I'll need to T off an extra pipe for the heater also.
I've got some photos and questions/issues about the sump which i'll post up later tonight.
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 13 February 2005 04:25
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also joel look for the thickest backing plate you can find 2s had 2 different thicknesses from memory mine is about 3.5mm thick and that f/wheel came off my gen 2 3sge the beams 1s are different as in ring gear and few other things from memory ,and you need the bottom backing plate as well and the gear box stays as well
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 13 February 2005 10:10
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yes the 2s engine stays mounts are the 1s to use ,
just weld up the 2 holes at the back of the sump ,the mini windage tray throw it away,
and make a windage tray out of alloy that goes all the way through or order 1 from a gen 3 3sge motor na will be ok
also you cannot use the std 2s bearing you need a dual race 1 that fit into the crank
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sun, 13 February 2005 22:28
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So does the gen 3 3sge windage tray bolt in ? the 3s/2s ones are welded in.
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 14 February 2005 05:31
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the gen 3 1 bolts in
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 17 February 2005 06:26
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Hey i've been chatting to someone else doing a RWD conversion.. They are thinking of using 4AGE 20V individual throttle bodies on the 3SGTE engine.
Whats everyone think of this?
Might make for an interesting discussion..
Assume i'd need an adapter plate between throttle bodies and the head.
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 17 February 2005 06:42
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| TurboRA28 wrote on Thu, 17 February 2005 17:26 |
Hey i've been chatting to someone else doing a RWD conversion.. They are thinking of using 4AGE 20V individual throttle bodies on the 3SGTE engine.
Whats everyone think of this?
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id certainly like to hear more about this.
how many mm are the 20V ITB's?
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 17 February 2005 07:57
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Its been done before joel, but youll have to space out the throttles and adapt the linkages to the longer distance between each, it may be easier to strip down some sidedrafts and buy the redline adaptor or just buy proper quads?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 17 February 2005 08:41
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TRD make the kit (for 3SGE) with 47.5mm throttles and a beautiful CNC machined manifold.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 17 February 2005 08:52
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I looked into going down the path of quad throttles, but I sort of turned away because of the extremely short runner length you are left with.
I thought individual throttles were reserved for high strung naturally aspirated engines.
Although the RB26 uses individual throttles.
How would this affect power and torque delivery?
Gabe
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Location:
barbados
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 17 February 2005 17:15
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for starters the throttle responce is going to be far better ,and that is what i want because the roads we have here are fairly tight and twisty.Plus i like to be diffrent.
the sliver top 20v throttle bodies are
44mm opening with a 43mm throttle
and the black top 20v throttle bodies are
48mm opening with a 47 mm throttle
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 17 February 2005 22:05
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Thanks all for your input so far. Yeah I just thought it would be something different and you can pickup 20v quads for pretty cheap these days.
Hmm decisions decisions..
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Location:
barbados
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Fri, 18 February 2005 03:03
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we can get a pair for $100 bds dollars (barbados ) and there is an abundance of 20v engines here
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Fri, 18 February 2005 04:43
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| logic wrote on Fri, 18 February 2005 13:03 |
we can get a pair for $100 bds dollars (barbados ) and there is an abundance of 20v engines here
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You may be receiving a PM
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Fri, 18 February 2005 05:30
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Our exchange rate is good too Cool1.. Thats under $70 australian!
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Fri, 18 February 2005 09:05
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I'm keen on doing something. Are you?
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Location:
barbados
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Fri, 18 February 2005 20:01
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i have no problem
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Location:
Vancouver
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sat, 19 February 2005 01:33
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Does anyone have a picture of a set of the 20V throttles in their stock state?
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sat, 19 February 2005 06:36
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The only thing I would be worried about with that alloy bracket is getting some heat into it and then it bending. It might bend and put the engine on some stupid angle and then stay there.
That alternator bracket looks like it might get in the way of the inlet but cant really tell from the pictures. I'll get some pictures of the bracket I made if you like.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Sat, 19 February 2005 15:45
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I'm starting to see why this conversion isn't attempted all that often.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 21 February 2005 09:05
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These pictures show how Glen(CelicaRA45) did his mounts:
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 21 February 2005 12:04
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I woudlnt be using alloy either, its structural properties for something which is twisting and turning are not great. Especially the precut plate which you have there.
Anyway i mainly wanted an easy way to subscribe to this thread.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 21 February 2005 12:38
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top left of thread "subscribe to this topic"
nice work guys.... you all make it look so easy.... more of a tempting conversion now.
cheers
Nathan
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Location:
Adelaide, drift capital
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 21 February 2005 12:41
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Nice work Joel!
Regards,
Joel Fitzgerald
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