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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2004
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intercooler sizes?
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Wed, 02 February 2005 03:55
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hey guys just wondering wats a good size fmic to fit onto a ae92 corolla, its a 4agze? can it be fitted with the a/c still connected? and does can anyone recommend any good workshops in sydney they can supply and fit one
thanks.
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Location:
Arthurs Creek, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: intercooler sizes?
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Wed, 02 February 2005 03:58
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Best Intercooler = Biggest Intercooler possible.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: intercooler sizes?
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Wed, 02 February 2005 04:06
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that was quick lol , i want something that will fit in nicely behind the bar, and is fairly discreet, while still having aircon
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: intercooler sizes?
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Wed, 02 February 2005 04:29
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Biggest intercooler possible is NOT correct - it depends on what kind of power you are aiming for.
If you go out and purchase a 600x300x100 intercooler simply for the bling factor, you can actually lose power and engine response.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: intercooler sizes?
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Wed, 02 February 2005 04:34
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not after the bling factor which is why i want it dicreet behind the bar, i want something suitable for the gze. i could stick to top mount but only reason i dont to is because im not a fan of bonnet scoops
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Location:
Arthurs Creek, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: intercooler sizes?
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Wed, 02 February 2005 04:36
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I was only kidding. Shit, take a chill pill.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: intercooler sizes?
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Wed, 02 February 2005 04:36
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Superchargers work differently to turbo's sorta... turbo's are a free spinning shaft with blades on each end, pushes by gasses, superchargers will spin with the engine no matter what. Surely the larger FMIC wont affect a s/c engine as much in a negative way?
Anyway, don't go overboard with the size... and make sure the end tank design is good, gotta be sure to cool the air well!
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: intercooler sizes?
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Wed, 02 February 2005 04:49
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Agreed they work differently, however overly large sizing will still have a negative effect due to pressure loss and increased volume. End tank design is pretty important too, as even distribution of air through the core means that it will me more efficent at cooling - and generate more power.
I would think about your power goals 1st and then purchase the IC to suit them.
Stradlater - i wasn't having a go at you, and i couldnt tell if you were joking or not. 
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: intercooler sizes?
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Wed, 02 February 2005 05:11
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thanks for that guys, can anyone recommend any good workshops in sydney that can fit the cooler?
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Location:
Arthurs Creek, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: intercooler sizes?
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Wed, 02 February 2005 05:12
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Pick up a ZOOM edition and there are heaps and heaps of advertisers that would do the job nicely over there.
But you could try Mr Enforcer
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: intercooler sizes?
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Wed, 02 February 2005 09:19
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| Silver_r33 wrote on Wed, 02 February 2005 14:29 |
If you go out and purchase a 600x300x100 intercooler simply for the bling factor, you can actually lose power and engine response.
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I have yet to see this happen in the real world. The internal volume of a large intercooler is insignificant compared to the amount of air your typical turbo is pushing.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: intercooler sizes?
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Wed, 02 February 2005 23:59
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Norbie, how do you find the two JZA80 coolers on the 2jz-gte?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
November 2004
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Location:
Arthurs Creek, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: intercooler sizes?
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Thu, 03 February 2005 03:05
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Easy solution. Get a bigger turbo.. ;-0)
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: intercooler sizes?
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Thu, 03 February 2005 03:10
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| HyDrA wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 09:59 |
Norbie, how do you find the two JZA80 coolers on the 2jz-gte?
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It works very well. With the sequential turbo system activated I'm seeing positive manifold pressure at about 1600-1800rpm. How responsive do you want??
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: intercooler sizes?
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Thu, 03 February 2005 03:12
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| Silver_r33 wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 10:14 |
Ahhh, its not just the volume, but the static pressure drop that will cause issues. A larger intercooler (assuming the core is the same as a smaller version) will by definition have a larger internal surface area. Now if you're not actually using this larger surface area to lower the temperature of the charge air significantly, all you are achieving is reduced air velocity, meaning a high static pressure drop across the cooler.
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So you're telling me the larger the intercooler, the greater the pressure drop? Of course there will be a pressure drop, cooler air = more dense = lower pressure. This is what the intercooler is supposed to do, it's a GOOD thing.
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Location:
Arthurs Creek, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: intercooler sizes?
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Thu, 03 February 2005 03:17
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Nice one norbie, well said.
hehe
But I think he did qualify it with 'static' pressure drop did he not?
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: intercooler sizes?
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Thu, 03 February 2005 03:52
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| Norbie wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 13:40 |
| HyDrA wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 09:59 |
Norbie, how do you find the two JZA80 coolers on the 2jz-gte?
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It works very well. With the sequential turbo system activated I'm seeing positive manifold pressure at about 1600-1800rpm. How responsive do you want??
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Thats damn nice... I suppose 3L pushing those two small turbos helps though 
I kinda wish i'd done the 2JZ conversion actually 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: intercooler sizes?
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Thu, 03 February 2005 05:57
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I got a 3sgte running about 14psi with a 400x250x75(core)fmic, after a 30min drive with some heavy boost at the end I touch the intercooler and I can feel the heat as you do, hot at the beginning then cooler and cooler the more you go across the intercooler but by the time I get to half way its cold. So I would think unless you are going to be going on the track something smaller than what i got should be plenty.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: intercooler sizes?
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Thu, 03 February 2005 06:53
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| Norbie wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 14:12 |
| Silver_r33 wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 10:14 |
Ahhh, its not just the volume, but the static pressure drop that will cause issues. A larger intercooler (assuming the core is the same as a smaller version) will by definition have a larger internal surface area. Now if you're not actually using this larger surface area to lower the temperature of the charge air significantly, all you are achieving is reduced air velocity, meaning a high static pressure drop across the cooler.
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So you're telling me the larger the intercooler, the greater the pressure drop? Of course there will be a pressure drop, cooler air = more dense = lower pressure. This is what the intercooler is supposed to do, it's a GOOD thing.
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I think you're misunderstanding what i am saying. Let me give an example:
You're running a fairly small turbo, say a HKS2510 on a 2L engine, at about 18 psi *before* the intercooler, and the charge air temp is about 80 degrees. The intercooler used is a small size, say 300x200x75 item, and cools the charge air to 30 degrees on a 27 degree day. Due to the intercooler not being a frictionless part of the inlet tract, you lose a couple of psi of boost at the actual inlet manifold. Say you actually 'see' 16psi at the throttle body.
Now take the over-sized intercooler with the same charge air temp out of the turbo/supercharger (80 degs), same ambient temp (27 degs) and same boost. You'll see a *lower* boost pressure (say 14psi) at the throttle body due to increased surface arear and therefore friction with the charge air, with only a slightly reduced charge air temp drop(say 28.5 degrees). Do you think that the small reduction in charge air temperature makes up for the lesser amount of air? Without goining into PV=nRT equations, i'm pretty sure you'll agree that you get to a point where the bigger intercooler will cause a greater static pressure drop which no longer offsets the power produced by cooler air charge.
Does that make semse?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: intercooler sizes?
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Thu, 03 February 2005 07:02
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Hmmm, this is the first time I've heard of internal friction being discussed WRT intercoolers. I guess your argument could be valid if it's a poorly-designed intercooler (eg a long and narrow core with a few very long tubes), but even then we're talking about a very small effect here. However, a well-designed intercooler (ie lots of short tubes) will actually have less internal resistance because there is a greater number of paths for the air to travel through. Kind of hard to explain without sketching it out, but hopefully you get the idea.
FWIW this is why I chose to have my intercooler built the way it is. I had two JZA80 cores which I wanted to join together, and it would have been easiest to join them end-to-end (thus utilising the factory end-tanks), but this would have doubled the internal resistance - same number of tubes, but twice as long. Instead I chose to have new end-tanks fabricated which joined the two cores side-by-side. This means the internal resistance was cut in half - twice as many tubes, same length.
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