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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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W5X short shifter designs
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Fri, 04 February 2005 08:33
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Ok people, one day in the future I will be planning to developing a short shifter for my W58 gear box (I have access to a mill, a lathe and a welder so have the facilities).
My design at the moment is to cut the shifter and weld a piece of mild steel round stock equal to the spacer being inserted and the gasket between the spacer and the gearbox mounting face (see next paragraph).
The spacer is little more than a plate of aluminum that had a hole in the middle and 4 holes around the outside. It will also have two holes in the sides new 'prongs' for a better word (and if the existing 'prongs' in the gearbox shifter position will have to be removed to insert the spacer, see next paragraph  )
Baisic design of spacer
A small circular spacer will have to be made to allow the existing shifter bush to seat at the correct level still. Again this will have to be the same height as the spacer and gasket combined.
Apparently Skip, Ed and bigworm (for a T50, did you ever get around for doing one for your W58? And ur web hosting had gone/changed?) have made/had short shifters made for them. Can anyone recommend the height of the spacer? I think 16mm will be a good starting point, but the help of other peoples first hand experiences would be great
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Fri, 04 February 2005 13:50
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16mm for funky fast crsip shift
18mm for rally shift sncros harshness
also, do what joal and i did: dont just butt weld the shifter extension on, but machine up into the ball/fulcrum of the shifter, press a new lower shaft into the ball, then weld it into location.
secondl, when making the spacer, beware of the clearance the lower shaft will require within the housing. you might find it fouls with the design you suggest. instead, i put a spacer under the WHOLE housing, lifting the whole lot up, and eliminating ANY chance of fouling whatsoever
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Fri, 04 February 2005 14:48
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Make a few, and give me one 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Sat, 05 February 2005 02:31
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Sat, 05 February 2005 00:50 |
16mm for funky fast crsip shift
18mm for rally shift sncros harshness
also, do what joal and i did: dont just butt weld the shifter extension on, but machine up into the ball/fulcrum of the shifter, press a new lower shaft into the ball, then weld it into location.
secondl, when making the spacer, beware of the clearance the lower shaft will require within the housing. you might find it fouls with the design you suggest. instead, i put a spacer under the WHOLE housing, lifting the whole lot up, and eliminating ANY chance of fouling whatsoever
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Excellent, I recall hearing that 16mm was good
Hmm I don't think I'm 100% conceptualizing what you mean, do you mean machine a new lower ball part and press it over the existing one and then weld it in place? (If so I guess it has the convience of only one weld...).
I agree, if the option to put a spacer plate at the bottom is available then thats the best option However that really only works with the MA61 shifter position (and the one further forward)! On the Shifter positions that extent over the rear of the extension housing if you space underneath you will cause the shifter elbow to foul on the housing I believe.
It would be great to have something that was a little more universal (i.e. could fit a MA70 etc).
Also jim kings short shifter (that group buy one that was on celicasupra forums) looks to be along the same design lines as mine, so heres hoping that my setup will work
| HyDrA wrote on Sat, 05 February 2005 01:48 |
Make a few, and give me one Wink
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Depending on how prototyping goes I might look into making a few more... no promises tho!
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Texas,USA
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Sat, 05 February 2005 02:36
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Please count me in on a W-5x short shifter. e-mail turbotoy@ev1.net
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Sat, 05 February 2005 02:51
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Jim Kings short shifter looks very good, well made etc.
Might it be possible to use the shifter from another toyota with that sort of spacer (assuming there is another that'll fit the job)
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Sat, 05 February 2005 03:17
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| HyDrA wrote on Sat, 05 February 2005 13:51 |
Jim Kings short shifter looks very good, well made etc.
Might it be possible to use the shifter from another toyota with that sort of spacer (assuming there is another that'll fit the job)
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Indeed it does look very good!
I doubt it'll be possible to use something from another toyota, but the idea is to modify the existing shifter so that a spacer such as jim's can be used
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Sun, 06 February 2005 21:10
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Pending the price, I will be interested as well
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Arthurs Creek, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Sun, 06 February 2005 23:50
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I'll put my hand up for one as well.
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Mon, 07 February 2005 00:01
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And I will join the hands-up party as well. I have swapped selectors and housings with bbaacchhyy, so I have a W58 set-up on top of my W57 (RA60) extension housing. Anyway, if it does not work on mine I will sell it locally and get my $$$ back.
Cheers,
Mitch.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Mon, 07 February 2005 00:30
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put me down for one too
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Mon, 07 February 2005 01:10
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From my experience Ed is correct. Mine is about 18-20mm longer and it crunches on hard shifts, synchro harshness!!!!!
I also buttwelded my extension, I used an M12 bolt for the extension.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Mon, 07 February 2005 01:12
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Saying this though R154's are not well known for their shift quality to begin with, R151f could only be worse, tis the true truck gearbox. A W58 may handle 18mm better.
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Mon, 07 February 2005 01:30
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I bought one from Gabe which arrived this morning, which was originally someone else on this forums'.
I'm happy to take pics if anyone is interested.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Mon, 07 February 2005 02:57
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| Stefan wrote on Mon, 07 February 2005 12:30 |
I bought one from Gabe which arrived this morning, which was originally someone else on this forums'.
I'm happy to take pics if anyone is interested.
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Yep pics would be good if its not a drama
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Gympie Qld
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Mon, 07 February 2005 11:01
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not being fully aware of teh original design of this shifter I'm sure what the comments about it possibly fouling refer to, but if it is on the edges of the spacer at teh end of the lever throw you could make the hole taper away from where the shifter would hit. eg taper down in or out and up.
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Mon, 07 February 2005 11:11
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short shifter MX62....  ....sounds good,
you will teach those out-of-control, hoon grandads good an proper 
brett
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Mon, 07 February 2005 12:17
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Well, my digi cam is buggered, so I took some pics with my old crappy one... and then realised the pics were going to the internal memory, and I don't have a cable for it
A few things to consider:
* You don't need to remove the original dowels - the bottom of this one sits on top of the shifter hosuing part of the box.
* The stock shifter has an 'ugly' stick and a 'pretty' stick. The Ugly stick goes over the pretty stick, with rubber inbetween - it's there for a reason. My shifter 'pretty' stick is solid alum, and it feels much too direct for me and transmits lots of vibrations
* Noise. Will the stock rubber boots be able to go over it? I haven't got that far with mine yet, but if it doesn't, I'll be selling it!
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Mon, 07 February 2005 12:51
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I made a 19mm one for my W box, and it's pretty damned short.. I don't think it does the synchros any favours, but yeah it's short  Probably something around 14-16mm would be A Good Thing..
I've got a 12mm one on my T50 for now too, I probably wouldn't go too much more simply because the box is tired and wouldn't really love me for it...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Tue, 08 February 2005 03:37
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| Stefan wrote on Mon, 07 February 2005 23:17 |
* You don't need to remove the original dowels - the bottom of this one sits on top of the shifter hosuing part of the box.
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If you take your shifter out there is the bush that sits in the bottom (under the two dowels)...I'm yet to measure the depth of the hole that the bush sits in, but I think that it is more than 16mm. If it is indeed more than 16mm (the height of the spacer on top) then I will need to remove the dowels to place a spacer under the bush so that the bush is at the correct height.
| Stefan wrote on Mon, 07 February 2005 23:17 |
* The stock shifter has an 'ugly' stick and a 'pretty' stick. The Ugly stick goes over the pretty stick, with rubber inbetween - it's there for a reason. My shifter 'pretty' stick is solid alum, and it feels much too direct for me and transmits lots of vibrations
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The idea is to keep the original design for the top part of the shifter atm(not to construct one from scratch), the only modifications to the existing shifter at the moment will be the lengthening of the pivot point on the bottom and probably a shortening and rethreading of the section where the gear know mounts. If I keep to that plan the shifter will still be rubber insulated
| Stefan wrote on Mon, 07 February 2005 23:17 |
* Noise. Will the stock rubber boots be able to go over it? I haven't got that far with mine yet, but if it doesn't, I'll be selling it!
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As it will hopefully just be a modified original per say it will fit
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Thu, 17 March 2005 02:19
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UPDATE:
I have time to prototype my design and prove it. I buttwelded the stick 16mm and with the spacer on top of the shifter housing, it did not foul, and appears to work quite well .
The idea has been proven and I'm now seriously looking into production, as such I and have some queries...
* Would you be comfortable with a brass bush instead of the toyota green bush. (this would be both cheaper, easier and better!).
* How many people would prefer rubber isolation of the upper section of the gearstick? (it would be cheaper and easier to manufacture without rubber isolation). I know stefan is a little girl and would prefer rubber isolation, but it is a sizable amount of extra work/cost. What is the group consensus?
| stefan |
* The stock shifter has an 'ugly' stick and a 'pretty' stick. The Ugly stick goes over the pretty stick, with rubber inbetween - it's there for a reason. My shifter 'pretty' stick is solid alum, and it feels much too direct for me and transmits lots of vibrations
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* If produced I would make it so that the stock outer rubber boot would be able to be mounted as per the factory arrangement (I agree it does reduce noise a LOT!)
| stefan |
* Noise. Will the stock rubber boots be able to go over it? I haven't got that far with mine yet, but if it doesn't, I'll be selling it!
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Bear in mind that this will be a direct replacement (i.e. it won't require you to do anything to your existing shifter other than remove it). Much along the same lines as Jim Kings shifter.
I'm unsure of what the price will be at this stage...I suspect around the $200 mark tho this may indeed change (I haven't received quotes as such yet). If there isn't support at this price I will abandon the idea, and look further into a modification that can be done on an exchange basis (at that price I suspect I will make very little, I will however make the machinist rich  ).
Does any one have any other questions, queries or comments to add?
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Thu, 17 March 2005 02:32
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I'd be in for one, but with the rubber isolator.
Probably prefer a rubber (green) bush rather than the brass too.
Cheers
Michael B
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Thu, 17 March 2005 02:48
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I'm exactly with bbaacchhyy on this one, up for one but with the green rubber bush too, not brass.
Any chance now of a photo of your modded one please ?
Thanks.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Thu, 17 March 2005 03:08
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I'd be interested!
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Location:
Hobart, TAS
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Thu, 17 March 2005 04:35
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Certaintly im up for one. But also like the others, with the rubber isolation. Just one question, what benefits would the brass bush give over the green rubber toyota bush?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Thu, 17 March 2005 05:14
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Yep, well this is pretty well what I expected...you all want me to take the hardest and most difficult route!
Due to the pins in the existing shifter it will either be a case of making a custom urethane bush that will go over the pins and still fit, or there is the option of brass. If brass was acceptable it would be possible to change the design completely from the toyota design, the design change would make it less complex and would also make the parts count smaller (being both simpler and with less parts it would be cheaper too).
I was thinking about using a full ball design (as opposed to toyota's half ball, spring and upper spring platform) and having it contained by brass (effectively a bush) on the top and seating into a brass bush on the bottom that would sit on top of the existing pins. But if brass isn't popular then it would mean that design would either require two toyota type green bushes or equivalent..that would mean $~40 in toyota green bushes! (plus the other required parts, spring , washer, rubber boot, lower shaft, rubber isolated upper shaft and the spacer block)...
The design that I'm thinking about producing looks nothing like my prototype, my prototype was just to check pretty well that it wouldn't foul if you put the spacer on the top. Sorry I don't have any pictures that show what I'm talking about with my new design either yet.
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Hobart, TAS
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Thu, 17 March 2005 05:28
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Well it sounds good so far, keep up the great work!
I'll be willing the use the brass bush. Only thing im concerned about is that it would cause more vibrations through the gear stick than the green bush and would it cause excessive wear to other parts?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Thu, 17 March 2005 06:07
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I think I understand what you mean, and on 2nd thoughts will accept a brass bush, but then also want the rubber isolated shifter handle
Cheers
MB
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Thu, 17 March 2005 06:14
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Another me too e-mail. Considering what you have explained in your latest post above, I find the brass acceptable as well, but I still want the rubber isolated handle as MB has said.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Thu, 17 March 2005 08:48
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My hands up, definetely want one.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Wed, 18 May 2005 07:47
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Right. Well thats what I have designed at the moment.
It would have to be done on an exchange basis, or I could send you the parts and have a machinist / yourself add the piviot extension
The design involves cutting/machining off the existing lower pivot, drilling and tapping the hole and then installing the lower pivot with some lock tight and a spring washer
Before I start talking costs I'll need to talk to the board and see if they will ok this. However the cost will depend on what people what in the 'kit'
-White bush (goes on end of pivot)
-Green bush (shifter seats into this bush)
-If done on an exchange basis the lower/innermost rubber boot in most cases is damaged/shagged, if this needs to be replaced it'd cost more obviously...
The toyota parts in themselves add up to about $50 
Another drawback to this is that if you decide that you don't want the short shifter you need to locate either a new shifter, or I could look at getting stock height pivot sections made I guess?
Opinions/comments?
(ps if you want to steal my great drawings, I hate you )
Cheers
Wilbo
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Wed, 18 May 2005 07:54
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Mate, I have no interest in stealing your drawings.
I would just like to know the costs involved and I need to have it explained to me exactly what I need to send you, and how those bits will be modded to give me that short shifter feeling !
By the way, well done on getting it to this stage. I appreciate what you have done to date, its no small task....
Thanks,
Mitch.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Wed, 18 May 2005 08:21
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Costing is the next stage, I have my contact to goto now that I have drawings
I'm hoping it will be cheaper than $150 all up, but it very much depends on what is expected in the way of expensive toyota parts!... if its more than that I don't think it will be worth doing.
For the exchange you would need to send me your gearshifter. I would send you back your shifter with the modified lower pivot installed, and all that would be required then is for you to install the spacer and bush and then reinstall the shifter.
The problem with that is the downtime you would suffer...I don't as yet have an elegant solution for that problem!
Cheers
Wilbo
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Wed, 18 May 2005 08:54
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Thanks Wilbo.
The downtime is solved by careful planning by the people who want a short shifter, they just steal another gearshift lever of any old RA60........
I have near new green and white bushes in my shifter so I would not be needing those, and the $150 would I guess be about the limit most people would be prepared to pay I think.
Keep us all 'posted' mate !
Thanks,
Mitch.
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Location:
Hobart, TAS
Registered:
October 2004
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Wed, 18 May 2005 21:29
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I'm still in. I'll do it on an exchange basis, and I don't need the bushes as I have already replaced them.
Put me on the list please 
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Tue, 24 May 2005 02:08
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Put me down for one!
Sounds like you've got a heap of interest Nice work
Dan
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Location:
Arthurs Creek, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Tue, 24 May 2005 02:36
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I'm definately in....
I have a changeover spare unit that I cna give you, so no downtime for me!
Definately definately count me in.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Tue, 24 May 2005 05:08
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I'm still waiting on a response from the Toymods Board, regarding if they will get uber pissed at me if this goes ahead
I'll be getting it priced in the next week or two as well at this stage.
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Tue, 24 May 2005 05:29
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i'd be very interested in a short shifter for my w58 as well. count me in
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Tue, 24 May 2005 05:59
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considered an adjustable short shift! while it would be more work you could have a wind up/down arrangement for the pivot point with a simple lift to adjust lock.... just an idea of mine i might get around to one day...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Tue, 24 May 2005 06:12
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money and sexual favours for you if you can fab one for an R154
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Tue, 24 May 2005 06:46
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Oh yeah this is another w5x box owner whos keen on this idea
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Location:
Arthurs Creek, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Thu, 02 June 2005 02:07
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How's the story with this one?
I'm still up for it......
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Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Arthurs Creek, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Thu, 02 June 2005 04:42
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Would you like me to start my own little forum on my website where you have the right to sell your shifters? so you don't affect toymods at all?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W5X short shifter designs
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Fri, 22 July 2005 07:29
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UPDATE:
head to THIS THREAD
Cheers
Wilbo
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