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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 06:55
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I would just like to point out that if you are wiring up your own car for an engine conversion and you are not a qualified auto electrician, your insurance company can refuse to make any payouts when you try and make a claim.
A person I know had an engine conversion done at a local workshop a little while ago and he just recently crashed his car. The crash was no ones fault but his own, but once the car was in at the panel shop and an auto electrician was called in to repair wiring that was damaged in the crash, shit hit the fan.
The auto electrician refused to repair the wiring because it was not up to standard and the only way he would fix it would be to rewire the complete engine. The insurance company wanted to know who did the engine conversion and wiring. This information was given to the insurer and they then contacted the workshop. Turns out the person who did the wiring had no qualification.
This person now has a car with 8k of damage that the insurance company is not going to fix.
I just thought I would post this seeing I have been asked by people on this forum to do some wiring jobs but have had to knock them back cause I have no time. Also because there are people on here offering to do wiring and they are not qualified.
So beware if your getting someone to do your wiring and they are not qualified, your insurance is void.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 06:59
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Hmmm, what 'qualifications' would one need?
Does this mean only a qualified mechanic can change a tyre?
Am I even allowed to wash my car now?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 07:03
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That's retarded. If the wiring didn't directly contribute to the accident, what fscking difference does it make??
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 07:10
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You would ned an auto electrical cert.
Norbie, that question was asked. But the response was "the wiring is a fire hazard and cause the car to burn to the ground". So in other words they dont want to be insuring a car that could burn to the ground at any time. And its a nice and neat way of not forking out 8k.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 07:18
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So
A) my electrical engineering degree won't cover it?
and
B) 90% of people that work at car stereo shops aren't legally allowed to do it either?
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 07:18
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I havent seen the wiring yet, but I have seen wiring jobs done by people who think they know what they are doing and I still wonder how the cars actually run  Some people just have no idea.
Saying this I can understand why the insurance company refused payout.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 07:22
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| Cool1 wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 17:10 |
... insuring a car that could burn to the ground at any time. .
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well, that's most of the car's that folks own on this forum...
surely the workshop that did the wiring would have some kind of certification for automotive work and that a 'competant' (and trained) person would have signed off on any modifications.
apprentices and workshop grunts might work on cars/planes/trains/etc but it's the supervisor who signs off (and hopefully inspects) work done.
i'd hope the workshop insurance is up to date 'cause that's who i'd be aiming at next.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 07:22
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I'd say its not a case of "You're not qualified to do it so we're not covering you", and its actually more a case of "what you have done was done in an unsafe manner, and thus made the car unroadworthy, and thus we are not covering you".
Otherwise we have basically just lost the right to touch anything on our cars besides what we need to do to drive it.
No changing of wipers, no changing tyres, no changing oil, no changing battery, hell, I'd say filling up the car should be illegal too.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 07:23
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| CrUZsida wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 17:18 |
So
A) my electrical engineering degree won't cover it?
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Depends how far you went with the auto electrical engineering. My electronics engineering cert covers Domestic Electrical, Auto Electrical, Grid maintenance, Commercial Electronics, Radios Comms.
| Quote: |
and
B) 90% of people that work at car stereo shops aren't legally allowed to do it either?
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I guess it depends what they are doing and how they are doing it.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 07:26
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| Cool1 wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 15:23 |
| CrUZsida wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 17:18 |
So
A) my electrical engineering degree won't cover it?
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Depends how far you went with the auto electrical engineering. My electronics engineering cert covers Domestic Electrical, Auto Electrical, Grid maintenance, Commercial Electronics, Radios Comms.
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Its a degree, not a ticket. So I don't know what I'm legally allowed to do.
Probably nothing...
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and
B) 90% of people that work at car stereo shops aren't legally allowed to do it either?
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I guess it depends what they are doing and how they are doing it.
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Well, not exactly, based on what you've 'heard' and typed, unless they have the certificate, they aren't allowed to touch the car. Regardless of what they did, or how they did it.
[Updated on: Wed, 09 February 2005 07:57]
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 07:30
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| CrUZsida wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 17:22 |
I'd say its not a case of "You're not qualified to do it so we're not covering you", and its actually more a case of "what you have done was done in an unsafe manner, and thus made the car unroadworthy, and thus we are not covering you".
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I think its simply "your not qualified so its unsafe".
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Otherwise we have basically just lost the right to touch anything on our cars besides what we need to do to drive it.
No changing of wipers, no changing tyres, no changing oil, no changing battery, hell, I'd say filling up the car should be illegal too.
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You got it.
Chuck, the matter has been taken further to try and make the workshop accountable. I dont know where it has gone but I dont see anything coming of it.
Once you take your car away from a workshop they can claim you have altered the work they did. Sad but true. And its been done before.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 07:35
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| Cool1 wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 15:30 |
| Quote: |
Otherwise we have basically just lost the right to touch anything on our cars besides what we need to do to drive it.
No changing of wipers, no changing tyres, no changing oil, no changing battery, hell, I'd say filling up the car should be illegal too.
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You got it.
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Makes you wonder how long it will be before this is the case.
I suppose once I go to insure my car, I better stipulate that ALL the work was carried out by me.
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Chuck, the matter has been taken further to try and make the workshop accountable. I dont know where it has gone but I dont see anything coming of it.
Once you take your car away from a workshop they can claim you have altered the work they did. Sad but true. And its been done before.
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And it will happen again.
[Updated on: Wed, 09 February 2005 07:37]
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 07:35
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| CrUZsida wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 17:26 |
Well, not exactly, based on what you've 'heard' and typed, unless they have the certificate, they aren't allowed to touch the car. Regardless of what they did, or how they did it.
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There is an auto wiring book that will tell you want you can and cant do. I would assume that re-terminating a stereo plug on the car loom would be perfectly ok. Speaker wiring is a free for all I know that much. Running power to the back of the car for an amp I have no idea about.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 07:35
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as if it wasn't already hard enough to insure a modified car.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 07:40
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| Cool1 wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 15:35 |
| CrUZsida wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 17:26 |
Well, not exactly, based on what you've 'heard' and typed, unless they have the certificate, they aren't allowed to touch the car. Regardless of what they did, or how they did it.
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There is an auto wiring book that will tell you want you can and cant do. I would assume that re-terminating a stereo plug on the car loom would be perfectly ok. Speaker wiring is a free for all I know that much. Running power to the back of the car for an amp I have no idea about.
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But 'technically speaking' touching any wire opens up a chance to leave a bare wire. Which inturn increases the chance of a burning down car.
You should know better than anyone else that just because its written in a book, doesn't make it legal in the insurances eyes.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 07:45
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Great... this'll make a lot of cars illegal 
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 09:00
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solder and use heat shrink and do your home work i better apply for my automotive a/c licence then
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 09:17
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So if wired correctly and professional looking... ?
Can you have the wiring checked out and singed off on your Approval Certificate / Engineer's Report?
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Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 09:19
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thats strange, over here in NZ, all mechanics have basic auto electrical skills and qualifications which are allow them to wire up a car, if they didnt..half the econmy would collapse, lucky for me im just about to start my second year of my auto electrical cert - i wonder if il be able to use it in aussie :s
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 09:22
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You would think the insurance company would still have to pay for the crash damage but refuse to pay for the rewiring. They cant get out of it all just threaten to sue the bastards. Then you would sue the guy who did your conversion for the rest.
Atleast that what I would do
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 09:24
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I think I'll just be anal about doing my wiring, that way it will be hard to prove it wasn't done profesionally (especially since some of it was)
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 09:28
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Fight them in court... My friend's girlfriend works for a law firm, which does alot of work defending some of the large insurers out there...
Some ricer had 50 modifications done to his honda civic that weren't known by the insurance company, who was refusing pay out after he stacked it into a tree because his tyres blew out scrubbing on the guards... he won... lol
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 10:44
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so what wiring is o.k to touch and what wiring is a no no?
thats gay, what insurance company was it???
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 11:01
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how would they(insurance scumbags), or even you find out if your wiring was done either by a qualified person or a home job when the car was not owned by you, but is now????
im sure some people are quite capable of doing a wiring job of equal, or even better standards than some auto sparkys.
how the fuck can the insurance scumbags tell the difference between a pro job and a home job???
i say go them in court
brett
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 11:07
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except if it's obviously dangerous they can refuse payment regardless of who did it... just if it's an auto-elec then you can claim the payment from him due to malpractice (or whatever it's called)
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 11:13
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Hehe. So how many of you would really take an insurance company to court?
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 11:22
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i built my power window winder unit and wired it up myself....does this mean the insurance company will be reluctant to insure me???? i hope not 
brett
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 14:06
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Hehe. So how many of you would really take an insurance company to court?
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depends on the situation. In this case, i might not. Being that the person in question lef the wiring up to the devices of the workshop i would make the workshop responsible.
maybe i should just take out PMP80Y to an auto electrician tomorrow, rip out all the wiring and ask him to fix it because my work was unsafe? If i were rich i would do it, and bet $500 that he did a shittier job.
Virtually every conversion i have seen wired up by an auto-sparkie was crap, and one bordering on unsafe. What kind of auto-elec uses NON INSUALTED terminals on a horn relay for ignition power, then leaves said relay unmounted and LOOSE in the engine bay!?!?!? This thing had UNFUSED 12V coming straight from the battery!!!!!
That said though, no doubt there are good auto elecs too.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Wed, 09 February 2005 21:30
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All that is really going on is that the insurance company want's to avoid paying the claim so they are using the bodgy wiring as an excuse. It doesn't matter if it had bugger all to do with the crash. That's what insurance comapnies do - anything to avoid paying a claim.
If it was my car I'd be pretty pissed about the auto-sparky having a big cry about the wiring to all and sundry instead of having a chat to me first. And really pissed if I'd actually paid someone to do the conversion who did such a shit job.
Would having your car approved by an engineer/pass a road transport authority inspection avoid such a problem? If it wasn't picked up at that point you could argue you had it inspected and it was OK.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Thu, 10 February 2005 06:05
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| Cool1 wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 21:43 |
Hehe. So how many of you would really take an insurance company to court?
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lol seems like a few would, though i wonder if they know of the costs involved in doing so, plus the insurance company has way deeper pockets and would tie the matter up in the courts for months-years
but if the wiring was origianlly done by a workshop then they should be made responsible and pay to have the wiring redone, if they didnt have any certified personel onsite to do the job, they should have said we cant do it or handed it off to another workshop to get done properly.
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Location:
melb
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Thu, 10 February 2005 06:25
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{Sarcasm on} gee since when did insurance companies try to ass ream the custmer out of covering the car {sarcasm off}..
I would just pay for a so called "professional and qualified" auto elec to rewire the convo then tell the insurance company to fix the rest of the car..
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Thu, 10 February 2005 13:10
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Well the case I know of, the ricer in honda, took about a month of so for him to win.
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Thu, 10 February 2005 13:38
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insurance compaines use every method possible to avoid paying out, they wouldnt be afloat if they didnt..
the problem witht his is.. they insure the vehicle without inspecting it to see its true value, then they have a cry about the cost when something happens to it.
i bought my car for a certain amount, and the insurance company (SGIO) covered it for $3000 more than the original purchase price..
but i know when i goto claim something, its going to ream me because of my $1200 excess, worst of all is, i dont even drive a fast car..
my point is, insrance companies are shitheads, and are ghey wit teh aids
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Thu, 10 February 2005 15:35
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It seems that the insurance companys try so hard not to give you any money, even with a legit claim
but with putting up with cases like the honda with the blown out tires (  had a good laff when i read that) you have to wonder WHY insurance companies are like that
The moral of the story is, stupid people wreck it for all
kill all the stupid people
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Thu, 10 February 2005 22:22
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Did he have an engineer's report for the conversion??
If he did then the engineer would be liable (which is the same in my case as most of you know about my birdsnest home made wiring job that my engineer signed off)
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Thu, 10 February 2005 23:15
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| SupraPete wrote on Fri, 11 February 2005 06:22 |
Did he have an engineer's report for the conversion??
If he did then the engineer would be liable (which is the same in my case as most of you know about my birdsnest home made wiring job that my engineer signed off)
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Unless your engineer has an auto sparkies ticket/license thingo, then I'd say he's not liable for the electrical work done on the car.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Thu, 10 February 2005 23:46
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I'd expect my engineer had a sparky cert thingmy-bob.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Thu, 10 February 2005 23:47
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| SupraPete wrote on Fri, 11 February 2005 07:46 |
I'd expect my engineer had a sparky cert thingmy-bob.
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Well then, providing the word 'wiring' is mentioned in your engineers report, you are all in the clear.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Fri, 11 February 2005 01:35
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pete - i still say you need to fix that shit dude. It's horrid.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Fri, 11 February 2005 03:32
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| THE WITZL wrote on Fri, 11 February 2005 12:35 |
pete - i still say you need to fix that shit dude. It's horrid.
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I know, I know.
Hasn't burnt the car down yet though *touch wood*
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Fri, 11 February 2005 07:55
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Unfortunately wiring does not and does not need to be checked during engineering.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Fri, 11 February 2005 11:09
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I'm gunna be extra careful when doing any wiring on my conversion that's for sure!
Though it'd be a plus to get an engineer (if qualified auto elec) to give the wiring a thumbs up on the report wouldn't it?
Though there's no longer engineer's reports in VIC, they are called Approval Certificates or some shit now.
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Home auto electrical jobs
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Sat, 12 February 2005 02:30
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I'd be almost certain there are Australian Standards in regards to Auto Electrical work, and the do's and donts.
There might also be state by state regulations concerning the legalities of who can do what legally.
| THE WITZL wrote on Thu, 10 February 2005 00:06 |
| Quote: |
Hehe. So how many of you would really take an insurance company to court?
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depends on the situation. In this case, i might not. Being that the person in question lef the wiring up to the devices of the workshop i would make the workshop responsible.
maybe i should just take out PMP80Y to an auto electrician tomorrow, rip out all the wiring and ask him to fix it because my work was unsafe? If i were rich i would do it, and bet $500 that he did a shittier job.
Virtually every conversion i have seen wired up by an auto-sparkie was crap, and one bordering on unsafe. What kind of auto-elec uses NON INSUALTED terminals on a horn relay for ignition power, then leaves said relay unmounted and LOOSE in the engine bay!?!?!? This thing had UNFUSED 12V coming straight from the battery!!!!!
That said though, no doubt there are good auto elecs too.
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Like with any trade you get good tradespeople and sloppy. You've no doubt encountered the latter of the group more often than the former. However, if you think your work is good AND as a legal requirment the wiring for your conversion should have been done by a properly ticketed person, i would try to find an auto sparky who would sign off on your work as his own. This might prove to be hard if your work isnt what he or she would consider up to standard, but if you could pull it off it would be ALOT cheaper than him completely rewiring your car
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