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Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sutho/Hills NSW
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Brass Button Clutch (what is)
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Mon, 28 October 2002 23:56
 
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isnt it with a brass button its only either in or out?
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Brass Button Clutch (what is)
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Tue, 29 October 2002 02:19
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My bro has a button clutch in his rally Esky, but I'm not enlightened as to whether it's brass or not.
Big advantage of a button clutch - the friction plate doesn't have to work as hard and heat up by slipping all the time. Also helps out the gear box a bit cause you are less likely to get lazy with the clutch.
Big disadvantage - if you try to down change into a corner, without decent heel-toeing or some double clutching, you will get compression lock up like all hell. Also a pain in the arse to launch on the street 
Although they say it's a button clutch, they do have a bit of slip, but there is about 3 or 5mm or so of movement from going from all-grip to zip.
Also, mechanically, you have to realise that when you upgrade your clutch, it's less likely to break (duh). But think about it, if you make the clutch less likely to break, then the other parts in your drivetrain have one less bit of give in the system. A few too many hard or rough launches, or some bungled gear changes and you could see your gearbox go, or your diff or something like that. Systems like drivetrains are designed with a few weaknesses in mind, so that the most expnsive or hardest to replace thing doesn't break.
As far as I am aware, a heavy duty clutch is simply a more expensive clutch, that lasts longer (maybe made of more heat resistant material or something heavier), but may also reduce the amount of slip you are able to get. Not to the point of a button clutch, which is essentially a *bloody* heavy duty clutch. I think that a heavy duty clutch might also have more clamping force (maybe an uprated cylinder) to allow for more horse power to be fed through it.
Don't take my word for gospel though.
[Updated on: Tue, 29 October 2002 02:33]
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brass Button Clutch (what is)
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Tue, 29 October 2002 03:04
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A button clutch simply means the clutch plate has several spokes, with a "button" or "puck" of friction material on the end of each spoke, as opposed to a conventional clutch plate which is a disc with friction material all the way around. Usually these clutches have either 3 or 5 pucks.
The idea is to decrease the surface area of the friction material for the clamping pressure to act on, so each square inch of contact area has more pressure on it (ie higher psi). This makes the clutch grab much better than a conventional clutch, which is good in race applications but it makes it difficult to drive on the street.
A brass button clutch uses brass as the friction material. This makes the clutch even grabbier, but it's more heat-resistannt than other materials so it's popular in racing applications.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Brass Button Clutch (what is)
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Tue, 29 October 2002 03:14
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I've got a brass button in mine, and will be used with the 4L. Its also twin plate (double the contact surface, double the grip, four times the price). I took it to a clutch plate to find out which way the plates go together (I pulled it apart to look at it and wanted to make sure I put it back together properly). The guy at the clutch place said he's never seen one, and neither had his dad who owned the company before he did.
My slave cylinder for the clutch is also inside the belhousing and is hydraulicaly operated (also, F%ing expensive).
It wasn't easy to reverse park it with the turbo 6, its gonna be even harder with the low down torque of the V8. will be great on the track though.
And compression lockups are bloody great! come up to a corner slow it down with the brakes, then put it in seccond and let it out .. "chirp" and then go round the corner. I don't know anyone that would down gear while in a corner, so compression lockups are not dangerous - for sliding out that is.
With a brass button clutch you MUST have the driveline to handle it as it puts a lot more strain on other parts like the other guys said - gearbox, diff.
[Updated on: Tue, 29 October 2002 03:16]
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Brass Button Clutch (what is)
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Tue, 29 October 2002 03:15
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Well that certainly clears it up for me. Maybe I should go and dismantle my brothers clutch out of curiosity
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Brass Button Clutch (what is)
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Tue, 29 October 2002 03:24
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*into* a corner is the dangerous part. If you are trying to get as close to the corner as possible before braking (a la racing/rally driver) then compression lock up can be a real pain in the rear-end, look at V8 drivers or rally driver foot work, they certainly don't flat change down through the gears. They are practically on the limit of the brakes, and if the engine brakes on top of that in an unsmooth fashion the brakes/tyres will lock up. Or if you are going from (example) a 3rd gear corner that tightens into a 2nd gear corner.
Of course, it really depends how hard you want to drive. Most people (me included) very VERY rarely drive hard enough to warrant a thought or care about engine braking - but it's just something to keep in mind if you are ever on the limit.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brass Button Clutch (what is)
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Tue, 29 October 2002 05:10
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ok so can u ride a button clutch ??
does that mean that everytime u get into gear it is potentially fukking up the gearbox etc ?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
Lake Macquarie
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Brass Button Clutch (what is)
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Tue, 29 October 2002 10:49
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I have had a few button clutches made for a few cars around here, from guys in St Marys, Western Syd, and what i have found is you get what you ask for. Tell them what you are after in a clutch, what it is used for etc and you will get the best clutch for those requests.
One clutch we got for a supra box in ta22 celica, 9" 4puck, ceramic/brass, sprung centre... If you did not know better you would swear it was a heavy duty organic (approx 15-20% heavier than standard). On the other hand another guy i know went in and rattled of how powerfull and good his car was, said he wanted heavy etc and it is a pain in the ass to drive on the streets.
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Brass Button Clutch (what is)
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Tue, 29 October 2002 11:22
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never ride any button clutch as it kills them quicker than anything. a button clutch with takeup springs is the go for the street, much less shudder. exedy make the best ive ever used and i swear by them and i have tried most that are on the market on diffrent race and street cars. we use four plate clutches on the high horsepower race cars and single or twin on the smaller motors.
mick
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Brass Button Clutch (what is)
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Wed, 30 October 2002 10:46
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Like has been said above.
Heavy Duty clutch is simply a standard friction plate (clutch plate) with a modified pressure plate to apply more pressure, more pressure = better clamping.
A button clutch simply has pucks with friction material, like has been said the pressure plate applies the same pressure to less surface area, which means it grips more. The less pucks you have the rougher the clutch is. A sprung centre simply takes up some of the torque load as you get off the clutch so to not shudder the drivetrain as much, a solid centre has no give and will damage a drivetrain much quicker than a sprung centre, also worse to drive.
There is different materials for button clutches, ceramic being longer wearing and brass being quicker wearing but more grippy. Exedy clutches are mainly ceramic buttons, ceramic also takes a long time to heat up.
Once you get used to a button clutch you can let them out quite easily and smoothly just dont be harsh on them and they are ok to drive, though my next clutch will definitely be a custom twin-plate....my button does annoy me at times.
If you want the best of both worlds, a decent clutch to drive and lots of clamping pressure/surface area then get a twin plate clutch with full face clutch plates...expensive yes but much nicer on your drivetrain also...
Michael
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Brass Button Clutch (what is)
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Wed, 30 October 2002 22:53
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I was talking to the place that machined my flywheel and they said that my clutch has some special contact metal on it. Some sort of Metal Halide or something (I didn't hear the word they used). By the way they said it, I'm supposing its a bloody good material.
Anyone know what it would be?
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Brass Button Clutch (what is)
