| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Fuel and ignition map for 20V
|
Thu, 31 October 2002 00:50
|
 |
Does anyone have a basic fuel&ignition map from an aftermarket ECU they can provide me with.
I just purchased a microtech secondhand.. its been used on a camira so the maps are wayyy off.
I need a basic map to get her running of down to the dyno.
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Fuel and ignition map for 20V
|
Thu, 31 October 2002 15:58
|
|
I've asked the same question 2 weeks back without reply.. my fuel map is slightly rich in the bottom and top end ever since the timing belt slipped, but since you only need to get it running to the dyno, let me know if you want my map..  do you need the timing as well?
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Fuel and ignition map for 20V
|
Fri, 01 November 2002 01:17
|
|
Timing belt slipped?.. all bad.
Your right.. I just need to get it running.. ive got a A/F meter to get a rough road tune prior to fine tuning on the dyno.. but I need a starting point.
I would appriciate it if you could write up your fuel and ignition maps and send em to me... ive done this quite a few times with the sprinters microtech so I know what it bitch it is
My email is:
abaddon@optushome.com.au
umm just load, idle and the main ignition should do it.
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Fuel and ignition map for 20V
|
Fri, 01 November 2002 13:23
|
|
by main ignition, do you mean t*rpm??
here they are anyway, that should get the engine up and running..
let me know what's your end results after the dyno tune and see how much difference it makes..
30Hg 25Hg 20Hg 15Hg 10Hg 05Hg 00Hg 2psi
Load 1.38 1.43 1.52 1.76 2.10 3.10 4.62 5.14
Idle 1.86 1.86 1.81 1.90 2.10 3.10 4.62 5.14
timing at certain rpm..
t*rpm Idle 1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000+
10* 20* 25* 25* 25* 30* 35* 35*
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Fuel and ignition map for 20V
|
Fri, 01 November 2002 13:26
|
|
hmm.. the table is out of alignment, just copy and paste the text into notepad and you should see it clearer..
btw, I'm using matrix mode, so the figures are different of 0Hg and 5Hg above 4000rpm, just add 5% for 5000rpm and 15% for 6000rpm etc. or just take it easy until you're at the dyno..
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Fuel and ignition map for 20V
|
Sat, 02 November 2002 01:12
|
|
Champion! Its more than enough to get it running thanks!
I didnt want to infect it with the camira map :)i'm not even sure which camira engine it was (there was a later 2L thats not bad(the 1.8 was a dog))
Also, Ive been thinking I might use the TPS for the main LOAD map.
I used to use it on my GZE instead of vacuum. ie. for 25Hg to atmo i used the TPS.. then from atmo to 20psi I used the MAP.
I found it was much more responsive..
Basically I just drove around until I got a rough idea of what TPS Vs MAP was.. it ended up something like 0% = 25Hg >>> 56% = 0Hg
then I drew a graph and worked out all the other values.. then drove around watching the air/fuel readout and tuned it a bit better.
Sounds dodgy but if you watch the boost guage you will notice that the vacuum follows the TPS almost exactly.. independant of RPM... also you can run into problems with long duration cams apparently.
I'll let you know how it goes.
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Fuel and ignition map for 20V
|
Sat, 02 November 2002 07:57
|
|
so did the engine start yet?
btw, is your microtech MTX8 that was sold on the forum? I'm using MTX8 and I could only get it to use either TPS or MAP, as you said, @ approx 50%, vacuum already @ 0Hg.. I tend to get a different mixture around 0Hg all the time, like 80% throttle at 0Hg is different to 60% throttle (could this only be my imagination? Or is 0Hg the same as any 0Hg, no extra air would go into the engine even if the throttle is 100% open?) Because as soon as I tend to tune it to 80% 0Hg, then I get a rich mixture at 60%..
I'm sure TPS would be more responsive when the car's running, but it's harder when the 20v's idling, because if you use a set mixture, when headlights and fans are turned on, it may stall when using TPS, unless you idle with a very rich mixture..
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Fuel and ignition map for 20V
|
Sat, 02 November 2002 09:08
|
|
heheh ive got to get it in first
the 20V is on an engine stand at the moment.. ive got to sell my sprinter so ive got the dollars for the 20v exhaust.
yeah you will find the throttle bodies of any EFI car are usually oversized somewhat.. the microtech TPS map only goes to 65%.. so I guess after the butterfly is 60% or so open it dosent make any difference opening it further.
As for idle problems.. its hard to get any engine with an aftermarket computer to idle properly if it doesnt have closed loop idle control.
If you use a map sensor it is more forgiving to load changes.. and you can use a idle-up solonoid to let some more air around the bypass.. you wire it up to open when the thermo comes on.. that way it will also work for the A/C (as the fan runs all the time when the A/C compressor runs)\
If you use an idle-up solonoid by itself with TPS control, when it opens it will just lean it out slightly.. which wont usually result in increasing the idle.
So to get around this you also put a resistor across the TPS sensor that "fools" the computer into thinking the throttle is slightly open.. thus increasing the fuel as well.
(The TPS is just a variable resistor).
I havent done any calculations to work out what size resistor to use but it woudlnt be that hard to work out if need be.
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Fuel and ignition map for 20V
|
Sat, 02 November 2002 14:08
|
|
the resistor issues should easily be fixed by using a trimpot, or measure the full resistance of the TPS and use a resistor that is 3-5% of the resistance, that should work.. 
so can the microtech be set to use TPS & vacuum at the same time? Or is it either one or the other?
so you mean the mixture is not going to be any different as long as the vacuum is 0Hg, it doesn't matter if the TPS is 60% or 80%?
I remembered once I've stepped on the pedal fairly hard, and in the log it displayed a maximum vacuum of 2psi, is that an error? or is the N/A 4AGE 20v enough to pull a vacuum of 2psi at high revs?? I've never tried to step that hard since, so that was the only time I've seen it, is that an error??
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Fuel and ignition map for 20V
|
Sun, 03 November 2002 03:12
|
|
Yeah what you do it set all the LOAD maps which are vacuum to 0, then set all the TPS maps up.
like this it will use the TPS for vacuum and the LOAD map for boost. Its covered in the manual.
You can also set the TPS to kick in at a certain RPM.. dont know why you would bother tho.. perhaps to try adn fix the idle.
Positive pressure is impossible on a NA car.. your map sensor is most likely a bit out of calibration.. I dont think you can calibrate the mtechs sensor.
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Fuel and ignition map for 20V
|
Mon, 04 November 2002 14:46
|
|
|
so I should also set the options to use TPS load sensing instead of MAP?? I've read the manual quite a few times before and couldn't find the info..
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Fuel and ignition map for 20V
|
Mon, 04 November 2002 23:17
|
|
nah its ok ive got a copy of the manual here
plus ive read the digi+ one (got one of those in my sprinter) about a 1000 times.
I'm going down to chat to the microtech guys (they are based in a shop 5 mins from where I live) today about what I need to get the MT-8 going with coilpacks.. im a bit confused as it doesnt have the inbuilt ignitors what I have to use instead.
I was just browsing thru the MT-8 manual the other night... looks like I will be able to use the aux output to bring on the VVT... can be configured as an RPM switch.
Sucks it doesnt have 2 outputs tho.. might have been nice to use the ECU to switch the thermo.. one more mechanical switch not to worry about.
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Fuel and ignition map for 20V
|
Tue, 05 November 2002 09:47
|
|
haven't answered my TPS/MAP LOAD question..
yeah, I hate how it only has 1 output too, but I'm not worried about the fan, I just wished there was the 2nd output to "TURN OFF" the VVTi at 7200rpm for the maximum power..
I've figured a way to get pass the thermo fan problem, there's a kit from Dick Smith called "Low Fuel Indicator" about $15, use that and a thermoresistor which cost $0.99c, and a relay about $5, have the kit monitor the resistor's voltage drop and control the relay at certain temp, the kit's got a built in voltage regulator (9v) which you could use to make sure the consistant voltage drop against the thermoresistor doesn't matter what voltage/charge your battery is in, I'm yet to completely finishing the kit, due to complete laziness, (also due to the lack of information of the darlington transistor in the kit which doesn't specify where it should face) but I should have it finished by this week coz I've got the data about the transistor already.. so this should solve the problem..
do you think it's worth it to get an rpm window switch? (But then it's bloody expensive.. )
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Fuel and ignition map for 20V
|
Tue, 05 November 2002 10:17
|
|
I dont know about the TPS.. its up to you.
If its running magic tho I wouldnt touch it.. I went TPS in teh sprinter cause the 10 miles of intercooling piping was making the throttle response really um... doughy
Probably dont have it as bad with the quads tho.
(on a side not I rang uni-filter today.. sock filters,springs and trumpets for $160.. tough)
Nah ill just use the standard thermo switch thing that comes with the MR2.. if its not working (they are about $60.. blew the one in the sprinter [doesnt switch it grounds!]) there is a temp switch kit at jaycar.. adjustable styles.
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Fuel and ignition map for 20V
|
Tue, 05 November 2002 12:53
|
|
hmm.. the reason I'm thinking about TPS + MAP combined, was because I want a proper tuning with 60%+ TPS in higher revs, coz I feel there is a difference even though the MAP shows 0Hg..
When I bought my uni-filters, it was only $40 something, but without trumpets (which are expensive), but I reckon the 20v is way too loud with the trumpets (I've got a very quiet exhaust), I really wish I could find an airbox, coz I want the 20v to be a sleeper, not cops bait..  (very good excuse for a ticket too!) 
I've blew my thermo switch too, and Toyota wants more than $150 for one! And I don't know which switch suits the 20v, so can't get one from wrecker, the one I've had was "Normal Close", which needed a relay to be on all the time which drains my battery after a couple of days, the Jaycar switches are NC as well, and the response is very slow (won't reset until 10 degrees below the typical temp)
I didn't know Jaycar's already had a temp kit, I've already had the Dick Smith kit which I was going to experiment with the tacho output, to see if it can sense the voltage and operate a relay, but didn't go ahead with the experiment.. but maybe 2 small problems.. the cheap relay from the Jaycar kit may need to be replaced with a proper relay, which probably ends up costing more than the Dick Smith kit.. and what voltage does the kit operate in? Strangly the jaycar kit's got way less components than the DSE kit, have u built one? How does it work?
|
|
|
