| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Wed, 23 February 2005 01:51
 
|
 |
After the IC definitely and unless you are running a dedicated extra injector don't try and run straight meth thru a simple spray nozzle....BIG fire risk.
Highest mix you should run is 50/50 meth/water but as to what the engine will take as a % of total mixture? it's totally engine dependant. Look at the Aquamist site to get a rough idea. I think their biggest nozzle is around 300cc/min
|
|
|
Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Wed, 23 February 2005 06:59
|
|
Max recommended water/meth mix to use is 10% of fuel rate.
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Wed, 23 February 2005 11:06
|
|
RB25DET
I was thinking 'bout putting the spray around 1-1.5metres from the throttle body, to give it half a chance to mix throughout the airflow. All this is after I've installed teh massif, hektic Front mount intercooler.
If I have a safety cut to only pump on-boost, surely 100% metho would be o.k.?
|
|
|
Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Wed, 23 February 2005 11:32
|
|
if u run any more than 50/50 u dont gain anything
just costs more
mix it with water it will last twice as much
i used to run up to 3psi more with a water injection setup
mind u i ran out of water once and it melted top edges of pistons hehe
it is a cheap or cheats way for more power
but it has its disadvantages
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Wed, 23 February 2005 11:33
|
|
nooo metho is just to help the water evap quicker you want 49% distilled water 2% cheapo coolent 49% metho this is the proven formula,
best bet is any old efi fuel pump and a couple of injectors one close to the throttle body and one post intercooler or pre turbo depending...
then try and scam a cheapo aux injector controller
vola! tuneable water injection!
Allan
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Thu, 24 February 2005 00:28
|
|
Noice - Thanks Allan.
Injector control is no biggie - I've already built a timer circuit with big-ass transistors to switch 5-10 amps in a coil, to run a spark plug in my homemade jet engine. Which is like, totally not finished!  - No biggie to build another one to control injector duty cycle.
|
|
|
Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Thu, 24 February 2005 13:05
|
|
the best bit is that your old EFI pump unfortunately will live a very short life... To prove a point, I actually tried this once. I won 
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Fri, 25 February 2005 08:07
|
|
Haha yeah I tried it once too... those pumps don't like water at all. Lasted about a day. 
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Fri, 25 February 2005 08:10
|
|
|
did you run coolent in the mix?
|
|
|
Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Fri, 25 February 2005 13:16
|
|
|
That would probably prolong the life of the pump somewhat, and it'd smell pretty classy, too!
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Fri, 25 February 2005 15:40
|
|
|
yes i ran a gz10 fuel pump for 6 months without issue
|
|
|
Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Sat, 26 February 2005 10:27
|
|
does this only work on a turboed engine
does it work on a NA motor??
brett
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Sat, 26 February 2005 10:43
|
|
|
works on NA to a lesser extent but will allow more advance to be run, stops carbon deposits and cleans intake path
|
|
|
Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Sat, 26 February 2005 11:30
|
|
how much horsepowah gain would u expect on a stocko 18rgu??
brett
|
|
|
Location:
wangaratta
Registered:
May 2004
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Sun, 27 February 2005 11:26
|
|
as the engine does not run high ( or highish for that matter ) compression, i dont think you would see a big advantage. most gains are had through being able to run more advance before detonation occurs. with such low compression, there is a pretty huge threshold there to start with. there will be some gains, but probably not noticable.
that said, it could probably be worth it for the cleaning factor.
try and see, its not expensive to set up. . . and i really really doubt whether you could do any harm. . . as long as u dont spray it in there with a garden hose, it HAS to be a very fine mist.
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Mon, 28 February 2005 23:36
|
|
|
Thanks guys. Any ideas on a chaep(ish), high(ish) pressure pump that's water-friendly?
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Tue, 01 March 2005 00:43
|
|
washer pump? err, me thinks not! youve got to have pressure plus volume flow... like a shurflo
speaking of which, ive got a complete, basically new pump and fittings (plus a spray nozzle or 2) available for sale if youd like. $100 + post (go see how much a shurflo regulated pumps costs before anyone flames)
cheers
ed
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Tue, 01 March 2005 00:43
|
|
| ed_ma61 wrote on Tue, 01 March 2005 11:43 |
washer pump? err, me thinks not! youve got to have pressure plus volume flow... like a shurflo
speaking of which, ive got a complete, basically new pump and fittings (plus a spray nozzle or 2) available for sale if youd like. $100 + post (go see how much a shurflo regulated pumps costs before anyone flames)
cheers
ed
|
me me me!!
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Tue, 01 March 2005 00:44
|
|
serious? ok, current high bid goes to allan @ $100 plus post
going once?...
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Tue, 01 March 2005 01:25
|
|
|
Which model SHURFLO is it? I've looked around a bit, and there's pumps, and THEN there's PUMPS!
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Tue, 01 March 2005 03:12
|
|
| ed_ma61 wrote on Tue, 01 March 2005 11:43 |
washer pump? err, me thinks not! youve got to have pressure plus volume flow... like a shurflo
|
It really depends on how much volume you're after, for example, on a 4AGZE, you've got 4x365cc injectors which at 80% duty cycle would supply 1.2 l/minute of fuel at tested pressure (assuming that the tested pressure is comparable to normal operating pressure).
Further up this thread, MWP claims that you would never want more than 10% water to fuel, therefore, you need a pump which can supply 120cc per minute.
As the sureflow pump linked above can supply 63 times that amount at 40PSI, perhaps that might be considered overkill.
Even if you've got a worked 6 cyl with 440's, then you've got a total fuel flow of around 2.1 l/minute and would need a whopping 210cc/minute of water.
As the water pump will only have to be around 1/10th the power of the fuel pump, I think a water pump bigger than the fuel pump might be considered wasteful...
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Tue, 01 March 2005 05:16
|
|
even at 100-200cc/min, you must ensure that you maintain at least 40-50psi rail/line pressure to get good atomisation. show me a washer pump that can do that, and ill be happy
shurflo is overkill, but there is almost nothing inbetween
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Tue, 01 March 2005 09:11
|
|
Yeah - I'm trying to find a cheap backpack sprayer pump for a decent price. They're 12V, low flow, high pressure, sturdy and built to handle water + chemicals. Who could ask for more ? ! ? ! ? !
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Tue, 01 March 2005 09:16
|
|
|
I run 15psi with 12 degrees advance and no injection.... are they talking about a crappy motor, or bolt-on turbo to n/a engine? (or maybe a nissan engine? I've heard they tend to be able to run a few degrees less than toyota ones)
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Tue, 01 March 2005 09:43
|
|
| draven wrote on Tue, 01 March 2005 20:16 |
I run 15psi with 12 degrees advance and no injection.... are they talking about a crappy motor, or bolt-on turbo to n/a engine? (or maybe a nissan engine? I've heard they tend to be able to run a few degrees less than toyota ones)
|
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Tue, 01 March 2005 09:52
|
|
|
shows I only read the quote and didn't bother with the links
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Tue, 01 March 2005 09:54
|
|
| draven wrote on Tue, 01 March 2005 20:52 |
shows I only read the quote and didn't bother with the links
|
hmm sorta like installing a 1jz and not bothering with a 2jz? 
|
|
|
I Supported Toymods
Location:
Casula
Registered:
January 2005
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Tue, 01 March 2005 13:28
|
|
I run 50/50 with my spray between the airbox and the blower,colder air in the blower compresses better.
I run a system that is like a washer set up.
I've not had much to do with turbo's weather the same effect is gained or not.
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Wed, 02 March 2005 03:00
|
|
I don't think I'll be pumping a cool mist of air/alcohol at my turbo's super-hot inlet wheel, if it's all the same to you ! ! 
Thermal shock is bad, mm'okay
Seriously though - can anyone fault this setup:
Flojet 12v pump, 40psi, max. 3.8L/min
http://www.flojet.com/prodInfoApp/servlet/DisplayI temDetail?itemId=LF122-202&companyId=FLOJET&am p;catalogId=FloorCare&categoryId=FFSEP&typ eId=FIDP13
Running water/ethanol into three of these mist-nozzles:
 (Mine have a thread machined on the outside, to screw-in to the Intake piping)
Each Nozzle (26 flow rating) will deliver 71cc of water/minute @ 40psi, mulitiplied x 3 - 213cc/min. This is around 8% of the maximum flow for 6 440cc petrol injectors.
-Just found someone claiming my type of injectors only flow around 380cc/min: That'd mean I go down a nozzle size to a 22 flow rating (182cc/min of water), unless I wanna leave extra capacity in case of further mods . . . .
yeah? 
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: Can anyone suggest a better Alcohol/water injection setup ?
|
Mon, 07 March 2005 01:02
|
|
|
Bump!
|
|
|
Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: Alcohol/water injection. Much advantage?
|
Mon, 21 March 2005 08:32
|
|
| st184 sillycar wrote on Wed, 02 March 2005 14:00 |
Seriously though - can anyone fault this setup:
Flojet 12v pump, 40psi, max. 3.8L/min
|
I don't think that your pump will give you enough pressure.
I've read that you need at least 3 bar above your boost pressure. I'm gonna get a 100psi pump for mine.
Check out www.coolingmist.com
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: Can anyone suggest a better Alcohol/water injection setup ?
|
Thu, 14 April 2005 07:10
|
|
What did you guys end up doing for a pump? The general consensus in the US for water injection on Supercharged MX5's is that 100psi pump is required. I got a price from a local marine shop on a 75psi Shurflo at $250. They couldn't get the 100psi one. I am waiting on a price from Victoria, but I'm told to expect it to be over $500. At that price I'd rather just go and buy an Aquamist system. So what did you guys do?
Cheers,
Cal.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: Can anyone suggest a better Alcohol/water injection setup ?
|
Fri, 15 April 2005 00:05
|
|
|
bump
|
|
|
Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: Can anyone suggest a better Alcohol/water injection setup ?
|
Fri, 15 April 2005 02:15
|
|
That's more money than you need to spend. Just check out ebay, they have got the best prices and stuff by miles.
I got mine off ebay from the same guy who runs www.coolingmist.com it was under $200 for almost everything i needed. I just bought some wire, a switch and a fuse holder separate. I would highly recommend coolingmist.com.
There's also another guy on ebay selling kits which seemed very similar, affordable too.
Good luck.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: Can anyone suggest a better Alcohol/water injection setup ?
|
Fri, 15 April 2005 05:20
|
|
So you've had good success withe coolingmist setup? I also found this: http://water.lovehorsepower.com/ Still $410US + shipping + tax. I'll check ebay, thanks.
Cal.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: Can anyone suggest a better Alcohol/water injection setup ?
|
Fri, 15 April 2005 06:21
|
|
One more question. Did you use the 1 nozzle or 2 nozzle system? What boost did you actuate it at?
Cal.
|
|
|
Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: Can anyone suggest a better Alcohol/water injection setup ?
|
Fri, 15 April 2005 08:42
|
|
I use a 1 nozzle system and it comes on at about 8psi i think. I've only had it going now for a few days, maybe a week.
Get it from ebay and it'll be half that price.
Let me now what you end up getting.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: Can anyone suggest a better Alcohol/water injection setup ?
|
Tue, 19 April 2005 05:07
|
|
Thanks. I'll be buying something within a few days.
Cal.
|
|
|
