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Location:
Bris
Registered:
November 2002
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Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Tue, 05 November 2002 07:59
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Hey guys
I am in the process of acquiring a RA65 2.4L EFI Celica and was wondering later on I could go a turbo for it.
Has anyone here done it? If so what is the costs involved, what did it end up putting out and was it worth it?
ThraxteR
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Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Tue, 05 November 2002 08:03
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there is a guy in Melbourne that has managed to Turbo a RT141 Corona wagon. It ran a 13.0 pass at Calder. I will try and find out his contact email for you
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Tue, 05 November 2002 13:26
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a 22R probably isn't the best engine for turbocharging. Sure it's tough as nails, but the cylinder heads are very restrictive so there's a limit to how much power they'll make without throwing big dollars at it. You'd be better off doing an engine conversion first, even something simple like an 18R-GEU which responds very well to forced induction.
Having said that, you can turbocharge practically anything... if you really want a turbo 22R, there's no reason it can't be done.
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Banned member
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Brisbane
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May 2002
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Tue, 05 November 2002 22:02
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if you use the standard 22rte turbo i am sure it fouls the steering....a small hurdle though
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Wed, 06 November 2002 03:59
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True for LHD cars, but not an issue for RHD. R series engines have the exhaust on the left side of the car.
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I supported Toymods
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Wed, 06 November 2002 04:38
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thraxer... I went through this whole process not all that long ago.. wanted bigger balls on my RA65.
trust me, it's not worth it. putting an 18r-ge then tuboing, or just going for a 1G-gte, is your best bet.
I was going to go the 1G route, but figured I may as well buy myself a supra and get even more power 
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Banned member
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Brisbane
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May 2002
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Wed, 06 November 2002 06:21
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hmm id like to see some figures on a stock 18rgeu running some sort of smallish turbo like a ct20 VS a stock 1ggte
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I supported Toymods
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Wed, 06 November 2002 06:46
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you'd have to be putting through around 10 pounds of boost to be getting near the gen3 1g-GTE.
the advantage of the 18r being it's an easier fit.
my personal preference would be for the 1G
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Wed, 06 November 2002 06:55
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draven is correct as the gen3 runs 10.5psi stock
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Banned member
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Wed, 06 November 2002 08:02
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yeah but what im thinking is would a 18rg outperform a 1ggte with the same size turbo and same boost
i think it would and you can get a 18rg out to a 2.4L if your really serious, how far does a 1ggte go ?
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I supported Toymods
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Wed, 06 November 2002 08:05
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in terms of potential, if you have squillions of $$$ to throw at it, the 18r-geu would probably be better.
for those of us who have money as our prime reason for not owning several ferraris and a few MKIV supras, the 1g-gte is a great bang for bucks swap
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Banned member
Location:
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Wed, 06 November 2002 08:22
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maybe a 18rg is cheaper and it bolts straight in
theres plenty of cheap turbos around in good nick, i sold a ct20 for 200 last week
if you can weld mounts for a 1ggte into a ra65 you can weld up the piping for the turbo and most likely custom fabricate the turbo manifold
so cost isnt really a factor is it, as both conversions would see around the same price, but i know which one would be more worthwhile, id take the 18rg anyday and you get the cheaper rego and insurance
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Wed, 06 November 2002 10:21
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An 18R-GEU with a decent turbo and tweaked fuel system (eg bigger injectors) will crank out 250hp easily. Beyond that requires a fair chunk of money, but you can get to the 250hp mark for surprisingly little outlay. That sort of power in a Celica is pretty spectacular though!
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Wed, 06 November 2002 10:47
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Why is the 18RG when turboed going to make more power than the 1G? I'm not judging or having a dig, I just can't see any reason for it...
Still a good idea
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Wed, 06 November 2002 10:48
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| celicamad85 wrote on Wed, 06 November 2002 19:02 |
i think it would and you can get a 18rg out to a 2.4L if your really serious, how far does a 1ggte go ?
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Funnily enough, 2.4 l.
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I supported Toymods
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Wed, 06 November 2002 13:00
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can an 18-RG do 10 psi on stock internals tho?
I mean, you can get 230 out of a 1G with no worries, plus uses almost no fuel.
no idea how much you can up the boost by, but adding $100 for a boost controller could well get you quite a few more
not that any of it matters... either option is going to get you enough power to have loads of fun in a 1140kg car
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Wed, 06 November 2002 23:05
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A turboed 18R-G will be MUCH more costly and also won't run as well as a stock (factory) 1G-GTE.
If I see someone with a turboed 18R-G that puts out 124kW like mine, and idles like mine, then I'll congratulate him. Then I'll ask him why he bothered spending twice as much money and 5 times as much time.
For serious power, the 18R-G would probably be the better choice.
But if you just want a street monster, just get a 3rd gen 1G-GTE, boost it up to 14psi and run it on a 3" exhaust. 151kW at the wheels with a factory idle and factory fuel economy. Easy install and $4k should just about cover it. There really isn't another choice when it comes to bang for the buck.
Oh yeah, and the maximum for a 1G is 2.4L too. One of the boys around here is in the process of doing this. It'll be interesting to see the results.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Wed, 06 November 2002 23:19
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What makes you think an 18R-G is so expensive? I purchased and installed mine for under $2k, and that includes an RX7 turbo, custom manifold and intercooler. The only remaining costs are intercooler piping and slight mods to the exhaust, but it's still not going to crack the $2k mark. I'm not saying this setup will be better than a 1G, but if you're doing this on a budget and don't mind getting your hands dirty, a turbo 18R-G represents excellent value.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Thu, 07 November 2002 00:45
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Would it make 124kW?
I was also assuming that the 18R-G had aftermarket ECU.
Plus, I wasn't just talking about money...
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I supported Toymods
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Thu, 07 November 2002 01:20
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What does the 18RG have that would make it better in a serious performance build-up? No one has answered this yet...
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Thu, 07 November 2002 04:21
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also another question which would be good to get answered is, if you replace the 22re with the 18rgeu can you use the 22re loom, ecu, and 5speed?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Thu, 07 November 2002 06:01
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I personally don't believe a turbo 18R-G would be "better" than a 1G, except that it's much easier to install and as I mentioned earlier it can be done very cheaply. The stock ECU is good for up to 250hp with bigger injectors (which I already have), but any more than this and you should really upgrade to an aftermarket ECU. That's why I said more than 250hp will start to get a bit spendy!
Yes you can run an 18R-G using a 22R computer, loom and sensors. Some people in the US have done this with great success using the early 22R injection system (it's analog and very similar to the 18R-GEU setup). So if you have the 18R-GEU hardware but lack the electronics, this is a great way to go.
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Banned member
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Thu, 07 November 2002 06:53
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hey norbie what are the chances of you taking that 18rgte out to willowbank one day when its finished ?.....
and nark maybe you could go for a run down the quarter mile
back to the debate, wouldnt the 18rgte have a shitload more torque having two less cylinders and just as much displacement...i think it would be logical but then there are so many other factors like head flow
anybody ever had a 18rg or a 1ggte head on a flow bench ?
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I supported Toymods
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Thu, 07 November 2002 07:34
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peak power/torque isn't important anyway (well, not *that* important).
you'd have to strap them both down to a dyno and have a look at the graphs to ge ta real idea of power & torque curves
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Banned member
Location:
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Thu, 07 November 2002 07:49
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that would be so very interesting, might even inspire a few people
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Banned member
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Thu, 07 November 2002 07:51
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maybe even chuck in a 2tg/3tg turbo hybrid, but then it would chew way too much juice to even be in the same field
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Thu, 07 November 2002 07:53
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| Norbie wrote on Thu, 07 November 2002 17:01 |
I personally don't believe a turbo 18R-G would be "better" than a 1G, except that it's much easier to install and as I mentioned earlier it can be done very cheaply. The stock ECU is good for up to 250hp with bigger injectors (which I already have), but any more than this and you should really upgrade to an aftermarket ECU. That's why I said more than 250hp will start to get a bit spendy!
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Agreed, besides, after 250 hp, 18RG bottom end is suspect. And it's only marginally easier to install.
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Banned member
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Thu, 07 November 2002 08:16
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why is it marginally easier to install !!???
its a straight drop in !!
the 1ggte needs crossmembers and shit to be welded up, that means lots of measuring and stuffing around to get it all lined up
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Thu, 07 November 2002 08:17
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From what I've seen installing a 1GGTE only required new mounts...don't get them wrong, it IS harder to install, but not by a huge amount.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Thu, 07 November 2002 09:07
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The 1G swap may be relatively easy, but an 18R-G engine conversion is as easy as they come. I did it in an afternoon with the help of one friend, no special tools or equipment apart from a rental engine crane, and we did it in the back yard. Running and drivable 18R-C to running and drivable 18R-G in an afternoon! I've yet to beat that, and I've done a lot of engine swaps since...
I'll definitely be taking the Celica out to Willowbank, in fact I may do it before I install the turbo so I can get an idea of before/after performance. It will probably to a 17 as is.
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Banned member
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Thu, 07 November 2002 09:43
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hey norbie maybe you could organise a few other toyotas down there at the same time, im itching to go out with some other 'not so high' performance cars
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I supported Toymods
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Thu, 07 November 2002 11:43
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well yeah, 18R-c to 18R-G would be a piece of piss
but we're talking about a 22R-E to an 18R-G (which I'm fairly sure isn't even legal, since the 18R-G is an older engine)
so that might take your options down to only the 1G
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Thu, 07 November 2002 13:32
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Any R series engine is the same deal, they have the same bellhousing bolt pattern and the same engine mounts. It's really just a matter of lifting out the 22R and bolting in the 18R-G, then hook up all the hoses and stuff. The exhaust may be slightly different but not much.
As for legality, just get a late-model 18R-GEU which was actually fitted in Jap-spec RA6x Celicas.
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Banned member
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Thu, 07 November 2002 23:53
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as a point of interest the ra65 came out also as a AA65 running a 4age motor
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I supported Toymods
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Fri, 08 November 2002 00:31
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where did you find out about the AA65 because I can't find jack about it! 
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Banned member
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Fri, 08 November 2002 00:55
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japanese celica site!! 
let me track it down
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Banned member
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Fri, 08 November 2002 01:00
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sorry my bad its actually a AA63 celica
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Fri, 08 November 2002 01:17
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Yeah, but why would you want an AA63? That'd be shocking to drive... Not enough torque.
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Banned member
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Fri, 08 November 2002 04:15
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it wouldnt be that shocking to drive ?
it would kick the shit out of a 21rc and they put those boat anchors in a few ra60's .....no flame war intended, i drove a 21rc auto ra60 for a while, i had pedestrians walking faster than me off the line, if you gave one a can of 'V' they would have even beaten me on the quarter
they musnt have been all THAT good anyway otherwise they would be more of them....or not they arnt too many 4tgte's but thats another story all together
t series motors are an easy swap too, myself and a friend got a 2tc out of one car and 2tg out of another and the 2tg back into the first car in 6 hours, gearboxs included and swapped
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Fri, 08 November 2002 05:15
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I'm sure the AA63 only existed for registration/insurance/fuel economy purposes (keeping in mind the weird regulations in Japan), not performance. If you want a fast Celica, you'd get the TA64!
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Banned member
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Fri, 08 November 2002 05:54
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nark: point taken and noted
mmmm maybe a bit technical here but i didnt know 21rc was a truck motor, sure the 22r is and i think the 20r was in bundera's in the states but they dont have the 21r there unless privately imported...the 21r was some sort of weird motor that only japan and australia got, not made for performance or for 'trucking'
by all means correct me if im wrong
i found ta64 engine mounts/crossmembers once and the guy never sent them to me, probably too much hassle, if i ever find a set id drop a turbo 2t/3tg hybrid into a ra65......purely for something different
it already looks like im trading the current ra65 coupe, but the next one i get (give me six months then ill be bored again) i think ill be going the turbo (possible twin charge) 18rgeu
hopefully by then norbie may have finished his project and have some figures to share ?.....whatever i do it will be something different to the rest
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I supported Toymods
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Fri, 08 November 2002 06:00
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I think the fact the 21R-C redlines at 5500rpm, makes max power at 5000rpm and max torque at 2400rpm gives a pretty good indication of its purpose
I don't actually think it was put into an actual truck, just the way it was designed screamed low-end torque instead of performance.
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Banned member
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Fri, 08 November 2002 06:04
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lol didnt you say once you reved yours once every gear change to 7000rpm to see how fast you could get it going ?
thank god you got the supra now !
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I supported Toymods
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Fri, 08 November 2002 06:12
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nah, the highest its been is 6800rpm in first when i ripped the air filter off...wouldn't go past 6500rpm in any other gear..
even the dodgy 1GEU in the XX is composed as anything at 7200rpm
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Fri, 08 November 2002 08:06
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Hey dude, I have it on good authority that this Celica is 22R powered. 
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Banned member
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Fri, 08 November 2002 08:53
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tomato im pretty sure you are right !
...ive seen it racing on fox a few times but cant distinguish the sound properly to verify the 4 cyls ! ...runs 10's from memory
ive got some pics of trevor maas ra65 327 chevy (stroked to 383?) pro stock celica, very nice runs 8.6's
how do i post them if they arnt already on the net ?
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I supported Toymods
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Fri, 08 November 2002 09:05
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You have to find somewhere on the net to upload them and then link to them from there...
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Banned member
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Registered:
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Fri, 08 November 2002 09:10
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18rg's don't bolt straight in.
They're valves mushroom after being revved high frequently.
Their timing chains break. They always leak oil.
If you work them they run bloody hot all the time.
They are heavy for a twin cam 2ltr.
Turbocharged ones run that hot it's not even funny.
And they don't "bolt in" to an ra60.
I like old school stuff, but I think a 1g is heaps better.
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Fri, 08 November 2002 14:05
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| Norbie wrote on Sat, 09 November 2002 00:22 |
| jase wrote on Fri, 08 November 2002 19:10 |
18rg's don't bolt straight in.
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Really? Mine did.
Funny, about 8 years ago when I took my 21r out, my 18rg didn't bolt in. The engine mounts had to be modified. Measure the distance from the back of the engine mount to the back of the sump. It's different from 20/21/22r. I had to modify the crossmember.
| Quote: |
They're valves mushroom after being revved high frequently.
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Never had that happen. Never even heard of it actually!
Happens quite frequently. Have repaired 4 18rg's that have done this (2 of my own). They start to loose compression cause the valves fold over on the lip.
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Their timing chains break. They always leak oil.
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Any timing chain will break if not replaced at recommended intervals. As for leaking oil, mine doesn't.
Never seen one that didn't leak oil. Prone to seizing the tensioner and skipping teeth on the cams. How long you had yours with no oil leak?
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If you work them they run bloody hot all the time.
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Hot compared to what? Mine seems to run at a normal temperature.
Mine didn't run at a normal temp. I can only comment on that and the other 2 that used to heat in traffic my friends had.
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They are heavy for a twin cam 2ltr.
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Well that much is true, they're not the lightest engine around.
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Turbocharged ones run that hot it's not even funny.
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So get a bigger radiator!
I had a Cressida radiator, then a vl turbo. They run hot.
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And they don't "bolt in" to an ra60.
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As I said earlier, 18R-G's were a factory option in RA6x Celicas.
Not with the rack and pinion steering in the ra60's in Australia. That was one of the main crossmember changes from the *a40 to the *a60. When in he car, the rear mount hole on the engine picks up the front on the crossmember, and mounts the engine slightly forward as compared to the 21r. 18rg fitted cars have a different crossmember.
I'm only talking from actual conversions and work that I myself have done.
| Quote: |
I like old school stuff, but I think a 1g is heaps better.
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Depends what you want really doesn't it?
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Sat, 09 November 2002 00:19
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Here ya go:
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Banned member
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Sat, 09 November 2002 01:15
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thanks nathan, your a legend !!
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Sat, 09 November 2002 01:38
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No probs dude
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Location:
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Sat, 09 November 2002 06:03
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Jase,
It's worth remembering that the 18R-G came in lots of different versions, including front-sump and mid-sump variations. If you get the wrong one for your car, it won't fit! Get the right one, and it will bolt right in.
As for running hot, I just took my Celica for a 2-hour strap through the mountains, full throttle most of the way, in 30+ degree Queensland weather. The temperature needle didn't budge from its normal position. Ditto for stop-start driving in heavy traffic which I do every day to and from work, it never gets close to looking hot. That's with a stock radiator mind you (re-cored recently).
I've had my 18R-G for over 5 years, and it's never leaked oil. Except for this morning when I cross-threaded the oil filter and dumped 4 litres of oil on the driveway, but that doesn't count...
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Sat, 09 November 2002 07:38
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You got any pictures of the bolted in swap?
I can't see how an 18rg that will bolt in.
I can see they will change (obviously) into an 18rc equipped anything, but not to something with a 2*r tc.....the engine mounts bolt to the block in a different location.
I'm hope I don't seem argumentive. One of my first engine swaps was just this, an 18rg into ra60. Heaps of people said yeah, yeah, bolt it in.......was real shocked when it didn't.
I'd hate to see us say to an inexperienced diy "it'll work" and then it not.
Obviously, when looking at your web page Norbie, hassles like this aren;t an issue for some......
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Turbo'ing a RA65 Celica
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Fri, 15 November 2002 02:56
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I would like to know what are some of the things you can do to a 1G-GTE to increase its performance.If you have a miss could it be related to the fuel pump and plugs?would a 7M fuel pump help to remedy the problem?would it also increase performanec marginally?
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