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Location:
Melbourne, Victoria
Registered:
December 2004
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3S-GE info...?
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Sun, 13 March 2005 12:15
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Hi, I was just wondering, what was the difference between the Gen 1 3S-GEs and the Gen 2 and 3 3S-GEs...? The first Gen's were in the ST162s...while the other 2 were in MR2's in Australia right? Coz I've heard...or read in the forums people saying that...if someone had a Gen 1 in their car...it wouldn't be worth putting in a Gen2 or Gen3? But I thought that 20 - 25kw would be fair...? The Gen2's usually go for around $500 right...?
I guess I'm asking because I was thinking of putting one of these into my ST184...just dropping a Gen 1 3S-GE would be easy right...? as it'd be just a case of getting hold of the engine, loom and ECU, then connecting everything together right...? and Gen 1's are usually fairly cheap right...? The only problem would possibly be leagalities...?
On the other hand, how hard would it be to put in a Gen2 or Gen3 3S-GE...? I would think that it'd be considerably harder as they would be mid-engined...? Just hopefully get some ideas from you guys...
And for anyone who says that it wouldn't be worth putting in a Gen 1 3s-GE...I've only got a 3S-FE in my car...coz the guy before put one in...>_> so I'm thinking it'd probably be worth it...especially if it's fairly cheap and easy...anyway...thanks...
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Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: 3S-GE info...?
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Sun, 13 March 2005 22:24
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Well you've got your wires crossed all over the place.
Gen1 3S-G(T)E were based in the ST16X celica.
Gen2 3S-G(T)E were based in the ST18X celica and SW20 MR2.
All the engines bolt in yes. But you have to remember you can't put in an older engine then the car is. Which rules out the Gen1 engine for your car.
Get a ST184 halfcut with the 3sge in it. It will bolt straight up. No mess no fuss. It also makes more power over the Gen1 3sge.
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Location:
Melbourne, Victoria
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 3S-GE info...?
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Mon, 14 March 2005 13:46
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Well you've got your wires crossed all over the place.
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huh...?
Umm...Yes, I'm only looking for 3S-GEs...not 3S-GTEs...and ...I didn't think they came out in ST184s I don't think...not unless they came out in Japan...? But I thought that was labelled the ST182 or something...? But yeha..that wouldn't be cheap would it...? How much generally to these cost...? I have to get them into Australia and all...so that's a bit of a hassle isn't it..? How about the conversion for an MR2 3S-GE...? I sthat really troublesome...? Anyway...thanks...
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: 3S-GE info...?
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Mon, 14 March 2005 13:52
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What Lance said is right dude, he was covering the entire model series and engines in his statements, across the ST16x and ST18x series, the FWD and 4WD and the NA and Turbo engines.
The ST185 is the GT4 model, 4WD and turbo (3S-GTE) and was sold in Australia starting in 1990.
You don't need the MR2 as a donor, unless you like spending more money than you have to, as Lance said, a ST182/4 3S-GE half cut has all you need for the conversion and will be cheaper.
Prices will vary, shop around.
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Location:
Sydney, Australia
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 3S-GE info...?
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Mon, 14 March 2005 14:06
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the conversion of a gen1 3sge to a gen2 3sge is generally not really worth it as its only about 10-15 kw difference. yes it sounds impressive but it gets quite costly to complete the conversion and for a little more money you may aswell invest in a 3sgte.
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Location:
Sydney Australia
Registered:
June 2005
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Re: 3S-GE info...?
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Wed, 08 June 2005 01:56
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sorry to bring this back from the dead
but i am about to attempt this conversion to my st162 - ive only owned it for 2 weeks and the thought of an extra 14kw is more than enough to swing my favour its way - better to start off with a base of 14 more kw than not - especially for the price im getting the gen 2 for 
i think im pretty mechanically capable having built several race spec carby fed motors, pulled apart and put together a few cars and currently building an anticipated 10 sec rear wheel drive 4 cyl turbo with bout 450-500 rear wheel horsepower in street trim. - not saying i know everthing  but im confident i can handle this conversion with relative ease - but there are some doubts being raised in my mind of late:
now im curious to know why DJ COUGAR thinks this conversion is so complicated - on the face of it - the blocks and input shafts etc seem to line up perfectly from the two gearboxes - the basic dimensions of the motors remain the same, share the same physical attributes other than the TVIS, and ancilaries are interchangeable (ie. alternator, exhaust manifold, heater hoses etc etc), and both motors are AFM rather than map sensored so would share the same air flow meter (aisin item by the looks of it) - everything other than internal differences, ecu and inlet manifold appear to be the same.
after doing a bit of research it looks like the only element that may cause headaches is the changing of computer and running of loom - is the ecu really that hard to get to? and wiring should be a replication of the current wiring in the st162 am i correct?
any pointers \ advice by those in the know or who have completed this
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 3S-GE info...?
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Wed, 08 June 2005 12:51
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The jap spec gen2 from the st182 was MAP i believe.Ask steve (Farmsci 16 has a thread in members rides atm)
But yeah, if your gonna do the swap make sure you use the gen2 head with the gen2 wiring otherwise you'll hit probs with the manfiold, TVIS etc (but i hear that its a very tight squeeze using the gen 2 manifold)
anyway, yeah do that conversion or go all out and get a gen3 or BEAMS.Get a gen 3 mate, y not?
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Location:
Sydney Australia
Registered:
June 2005
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Re: 3S-GE info...?
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Thu, 09 June 2005 00:14
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i wish !!!
hehehe
nah this is my daily driver so dont wanna go too spastic on it
plus im getting the gen 2 rather cheap - from a mate who had it in his mr2 and did a 3sgte conversion
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Location:
Vancouver
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: 3S-GE info...?
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Thu, 09 June 2005 19:38
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3SG motors in MR2 have alternator mounted low on intake side, all other applications have alternator mounted high on exhaust side
Gen1 3SGE - ? at ?
* same intake port size as turbo Gen1 & turbo Gen2
* smaller base circle cams than all other common 3SG heads, unique to this one motor
* smaller (4AG) diameter cam followers&shims (I think shimless conversion for these is lifters from the Vitz motor???)
* slightly longer valves
* different valve cover (the cool valve cover is on the crap motor!)
Gen2 3SGE - 150ish HP at 6800ish RPM
* much more conservative intake port sizing (smaller than turbo version)
* same size lifters as all other common 3SGE besides ST162 Gen1
* comes stock with shim over bucket, but can be easily converted to shimless buckets from a 1ZZ-FE
* no piston oil squirters in block
* 10:1 compression pop-top pistons
Gen3 3SGE - 170ish HP at 6800ish RPM
* asymetrical intake port locations & unique intake manifolds (maybe exhaust manifolds are unique too)
* shim under bucket
* less teeth on oil pump drive & 1 tooth shorter drive belt
* slightly more cam duration and lift than Gen2
* factory Gen 3 heads can take higher lift cams than Gen2 (lifter bores are clearnced for lobe tip clearance)
* I've heard these come with piston oil squirters in the blocks
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Location:
Sydney Australia
Registered:
June 2005
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Re: 3S-GE info...?
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Fri, 10 June 2005 01:11
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thanks for alternator info - appreciate it
can anyone else think of any other dramas \ differences i may encounter?
cheers
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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