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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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MA61 7M-GTE cooling/idling problems
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Wed, 16 March 2005 05:53
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Okay guys...
I've got a 7M-GTE in one of my ma61 supras. I didn't do the conversion, but bought it like that about 1 month ago.
It has blown a headgasket twice, and is now on a HKS metal one, properly torqued down and has done about 20,000kms since.
It's running a stock ma61 radiator (reconditioned), with 7M fan. Heavy duty coolant.
The thing is, after driving it likes to blow air from the radiator into the overflow tank. like the air has evaporated.... however, on the drive home, and today, the temperature gauge rises and looks to overheat. It has a new thermostat and all hoses have been checked and tightened....
it has only got hot twice. it overheated when we drove it home, and today it *nearly* did. second bar from the top. it went up and down like crazy in city driving, on the way home.
and i've done a fair few kms since having it (about 900?) and its only got hot today...
can someone please tell me it's not a headgasket? 
thanks
ryley
[Updated on: Tue, 22 March 2005 00:23]
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.vic.au
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7mgte crazy radiator
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Wed, 16 March 2005 05:59
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Evil,
Change the radiator cap...
Cheers.
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 7mgte crazy radiator
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Wed, 16 March 2005 06:02
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ohh i hope that is what it is. what type is best?
the 7m will be going in the white supra soon (also recon. radiator) so if it still goes crazy in that car.... 
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.vic.au
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7mgte crazy radiator
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Wed, 16 March 2005 06:05
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It happened to me after my engine rebuild. We didn't need to take the head off after 10000kms but it was covered under warranty . Seriously though, change the radiator cap, most probabily that is the problem.
Cheers.
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7mgte crazy radiator
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Wed, 16 March 2005 06:07
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Sounds to me like you've got air in the system? Will cause mongy readings on the temp gauge. Did the car actually overheat ie boil? or did the temp gauge just go up
Dan
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 7mgte crazy radiator
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Wed, 16 March 2005 06:10
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ok, cap change will happen.
apparantly the mechanice pressure tested the radiator and everything was fine, no air or anything. the first time, there was no coolant in the top tank and it was blowing air into the overflow tank, which was pretty full with coolant.
the second time, there was less coolant in the top tank, needed a top up, and it was blowing air into a full overflow tank. looking at parts of the engine bay suggests the overflow tank spat coolant out too- theres green shit on the mounts and places underneath the tank....
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7mgte crazy radiator
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Wed, 16 March 2005 06:28
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GREEN?! You need some Toyota RED coolant my friend
Dan
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 7mgte crazy radiator
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Wed, 16 March 2005 12:20
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cheers guys. i'm going to take it to a radiator place tomorrow and get it checked. does a reconditioned mkII radiator stand up the the 7mgte alright, or should i opt for a bigger option?
it's been pressure tested and it's fine, no leaks or anything. im currently using techalloy heavy duty green crap, but ill be switching to toyota red asap. could that make a difference?
another thing is over the past week the car has been idling funny- it would gurgle and splutter a bit, and lately has just been making a solid hearty "thump thump thump" noise at idle, and is a little rough... but as the car revs past about 1500rpm it's fine. the engine itself, when the exhaust is burbling or whatnot is still smooth and calm. (its a full 3" exhaust)... and it only seems to do it when it warms up. ive heard this could be a sign of a blown headgasket, but the mechanic is fairly certain it's not a BHG. the car runs too well for that as well... 
anyway all the help is really appreciated.
and danners, 170rwkw sounds good, is that just with the n/a cams, 10.5psi boost, 3.5 -> 3" exhaust and apexi s-afc? 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7mgte crazy radiator
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Wed, 16 March 2005 12:49
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get a coke bottle cut the bottom off wrap some tape over the threeds and sit it in the radiator top up the water level and run the car if you get lots of contiuned bubbles about 10 mins after its warmed up chances are its head gasket
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 7mgte crazy radiator
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Wed, 16 March 2005 12:55
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change cap.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Lwr Templestowe, Melbourne
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 7mgte crazy radiator
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Wed, 16 March 2005 13:42
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Ryley,
Mine runs fine as Allan, Tim and Ed can attest to. We were fanging it around with 4 of us in the car in really hot weather start of this week and it didn't overheat. Fan was going nuts though. Only after I stopped and shut off the engine did the water temp. go up from heatsoak.
I'm still running the standard mkII radiator thats just been cleaned as it was slightly clogged. New thermostat and new cap. And red coolant. Not the stuff from Toyota, but red coolant nontheless.
I'd say change the cap and see how you go. I hope it isnt a BHG.
Yian
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 7mgte crazy radiator
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Wed, 16 March 2005 21:54
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cheers guys. allan, the mechanic did what you recommend and got no bubbles- but, its at natrad atm, and if theres nothing wrong there, i guess it must be a headgasket...
can someone please tell me what pressure radiator cap is the best for an ma70 with 7mgte?
im currently using a 13psi... i've heard 18psi is good...
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7mgte crazy radiator
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Wed, 16 March 2005 22:29
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yup! haven't done anything else to it... yet
Dan
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 7mgte cooling issues
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Thu, 17 March 2005 09:37
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okie dokie...
just got it back from natrad, they said all the cooling systems were okay, they pulled the radiator out and checked it, everything is okay. however it was not blowing any bubbles out the radiator, the telltale sign of a HG. so natrad and the mechanic both don't think its a BHG. it runs too well to be a bhg- if the amount of coolant that is dissapearing was going into the cylinders it'd run like total crap.
however its idling like crap, at 4-600 revs. once it gets to about 1200rpm its fine... but sometimes it feels like its gonna stall. Could this be the IAC valve, (I'm gonna clean it) or, is this what happens when coolant goes into the engine? it's only starting doing this the last few days...
keen to hear what you guys say
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7mgte cooling issues
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Thu, 17 March 2005 09:39
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hmmmm if your melb way gimmee a lookies at this!
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.vic.au
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7mgte crazy radiator
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Thu, 17 March 2005 10:32
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If you are loosing fluid, firstly have you changed the radiator cap? I believe it's the radiator cap letting in air. Change that, if it's still giving you trouble let us know...
Oh... Yian is correct, his car held up to a fair "drive" on the stock MA61 radiator (with new-ish cap) with Allan and my brother on a warmish day. His tempreture didn't go over half (Besides heat soak from a stop)...
Cheers.
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Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 7mgte cooling issues
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Thu, 17 March 2005 12:15
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With regards to your idle woes, I've found the 7M idle control doesn't like aftermarket mods. If you throw pod filters, big intercoolers, different AFM's, aftermarket plub-black/bovs on them... they start to get grumpy. It messes with the idle sensor. A simple tap on the idle sensor hose should fix your problems (provided this is all that is causing it). The best way to fix the problem of mods effecting your idle is to obviously get an aftermarket ecu, but if like me that's not quite within reach of your budget, then this does the trick:
It's just a manual valve so you can restrict airflow or open it right up. Twiddle with it till you get a happy 700rpm or so idle, and then put a little texta mark for the position in case it gets bumped. I find I have one mark for summer and one for winter. Remember though - it could be something other than aftermarket modifications that is causing your idle to go spaz.
Let us know how you go with a different radiator cap - I'm thinking about changing mine too. Let us know which cap you decide to get and how it effects your baby.
With regards to your overheating, I believe it was mentioned earlier by Danners that it could also be air in your cooling system (I think the radiator cap is probably a better bet, but it's worth exploring all possibilities). One good way I found to make sure it is all properly bled is to disconnect this hose here:
Fill the radiator at the cap until coolant starts coming out of the hose at the back. Try not to trap any air back there when you reconnect, and be sure to run it with the cap off, constantly topping up as the bubbles surface.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Lwr Templestowe, Melbourne
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 7mgte cooling issues
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Thu, 17 March 2005 12:34
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Hrmm thats interesting. Coz I have a slight problem with idling at times. It'd sit at 1,500rpm and not go down even when its hot. I have to give it a real hard tramp and usually after that it will idle properly at 900rpm. Maybe coz there is a kink in the pipe (we had to improvise coz the original pipe was rooted) and shit builds up? 
And I'll definitely try that hose trick thing next time I bleed air out the system.
Yian
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 7mgte cooling issues
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Fri, 18 March 2005 03:05
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woah, thanks for the replies guys!
allan: i'm in ballarat. i did a little city driving today, and it stalled, idled like shit and the temperature gauge was up and down like crazy... so i don't think i'll be getting to melbourne anytime soon until it's running smooth again... but if you're in the ballarat area at all, your help would be awesome. if i head near melb in it, ill let you know. i'm pretty sure i still ahve your mob. number
tim and others regarding cap: natrad said the cap was in perfect order, holding pressure etc. i think i'll buy another one anyway, just in case. anyone know if the TRD ones (18psi) are worth it, or should i just get a 13psi one that everyone seems to be using?
josh: there's no mods on the car bar a K&N pod filter. it was running fine until about a week ago, so i don't know if thats the problem, unless:
i cleaned the filter about 2 weeks ago. is there a change i put to much oil in it, and it got sucked in and fucked my engine? does it do that? really going on a limb here... 
but i'll try the manual valve. natrad said there's no air in the system and it's fine. but, after another check if i cant find a problem i'll try your trick anyway. can't hurt.
the big thing is that at idle and low revs, its rough and poppy and gay. and the two biggest news flashes: it's eating petrol like crazy, (50km and 2 bars down) and there appears to be a massive oil leak on the side of the block- up the front, under where the alternator sits. it looks pretty fresh  ....
but again, the oil looks healthy as buggery today. and when i stopped the car, it wasn't blowing bubbles. the overflow tank wasn't as high as usual. the temperature gauge was still up a bit, but it wasn't idling as bad (but still like shit) as usual.
it's madness, i tell you. your guys help is really appreciated.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7mgte cooling issues
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Fri, 18 March 2005 03:29
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hmmm you might have a fueling issue, to lean or two rich can cause over heating, check your fuel pressure, and look at your AFM mine was all covered in shit when i fitted the 1uz one it ran 10000 times better
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Registered:
January 2004
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Re: 7mgte cooling issues
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Fri, 18 March 2005 03:29
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HHHmmmmmm.... let me see here , i work at a import place in western Sydney, we had a diesel Surf with a 2LT come back with same problem as you hav described, the guy drilled holes in the front bar, allowing more air in to the radiator,had a new rad put in it , had the head off it several times,several new thermostats later, still over heatin,till one day it was there ,i was talkin to the mechanic who was doing the job, i grabbed the fan, and gave it a spin, it spun freely, what im sayin is, hav you thought maybe the fan viscous is farked? try that , after we replaced this guys viscous fan , it hasnt missed a beat ... try it and get back to us, you can jus drill a hole thought it and put a screw throught it, jus so it locks it up, cheers!!!
P.s, jus a idea, hey , i might be wrong...
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Lwr Templestowe, Melbourne
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: 7mgte cooling issues
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Fri, 18 March 2005 03:37
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| Evil_Foetus wrote on Fri, 18 March 2005 14:05 |
there appears to be a massive oil leak on the side of the block- up the front, under where the alternator sits. it looks pretty fresh ....
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Haha we got the same problem  Its the one that goes from the rocker covers down behind the alternator to the block under the alt. right? I found out that the hose was cracked from age. Borrowed a better 'conditioned' one off Allan, but I will be trying to find a hose that is similarly shaped and sized so that I can replace mine. If you're desperate, any hose of the same size should do the trick as its a fairly big radius for the hose to turn hence wont have any kinks (I hope).
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Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 7mgte cooling issues
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Fri, 18 March 2005 03:46
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The lumpy crappy operating you're describing sounds like it may be junk in your AFM. If you over-oil an air filter, it'll gunk up your AFM and make your car run like crap. It actually happened to me. I should have thought of this earlier, cause my car did exactly what you're describing.
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 7mgte cooling issues
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Fri, 18 March 2005 03:59
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hmmm, im going to try this. the shit idling and going crazy started happening about the time of the air filter oiling.
so, this could be whats happening?
AFM got shit all in it-> running rich and like poo at low revs-> eating heaps of fuel-> overheating?
and yian- that sounds exactly what is happening. ill check it all out today and keep y'all posted...
thanks all
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Location:
Australia
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 7mgte cooling issues
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Fri, 18 March 2005 06:53
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A friend oiled his filter and it killed the AFM straight away. If you can check the diangnostic codes, if the conversion has included a check engine light
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7mgte cooling issues
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Sun, 20 March 2005 14:02
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The 1UZ AFM is %25 larger than the 7M one which means you'll need 550cc injectors to match up with it, unless you have an aftermarket computer
I don't suggest putting this item in until you've done some further research on the mod
Dan
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7mgte cooling issues
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Sun, 20 March 2005 14:14
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but untill that time you can use the 1uz-fe sensor in the 7m afm housing if you get the correct model (soarer 1uz-fe AFAIK)
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 7mgte cooling issues
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Tue, 22 March 2005 00:23
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thanks guys about the AFM. i know what to do with that now...
however, things are still going stupid. symptoms:
* Doesn't idle- when you start the car, you have to keep your foot on the accelerator otherwise it will stall. Its okay when it warms up, but still then idles between 4-600rpm and still makes a burble/popping/rough exhaust sound.
* Cooling system was going fine until today- normal driving (no boosting) had it going up and down like crazy. Coolant in overflow tank goes from being full to being nearly empty- both when warm, sometimes it does one, sometimes the other.
* Since last night the accelerator has gone a bit silly. It kind of chugs when you're trying to keep a constant speed, (ie 60kmh)... seems to be fine though once you put the foot down once or twice and it goes fine...
* creamy stuff on the top of the engine oil cap
* but aside from idling and the flat spot, the car still runs EXCEPTIONALLY well. Blows no smoke at all. Both mechanic and natrad think it isn't a headgasket, because of the amount of water lost vs. car performance etc.
so, the car is off the mechanic again tomorrow, these are the things i'm getting checked:
Compression check
Ignition and Cam timing
ISC Valve (Idle speed control)
Cold Start Injector
Air flow meter
Oxygen sensor...
any more help would be fantastic
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7mgte cooling issues
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Tue, 22 March 2005 01:47
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| Evil_Foetus wrote on Tue, 22 March 2005 11:23 |
* creamy stuff on the top of the engine oil cap
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water in the oil is VERY bad if you leave it in there it fucks and machined surfaces IE crankshaft
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 7mgte cooling issues
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Tue, 22 March 2005 04:35
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| Allan wrote on Tue, 22 March 2005 12:47 |
| Evil_Foetus wrote on Tue, 22 March 2005 11:23 |
* creamy stuff on the top of the engine oil cap
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water in the oil is VERY bad if you leave it in there it fucks and machined surfaces IE crankshaft
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yeah so i've heard. im definately getting that checked out, although the oil from the dipstick is fine... and its on the very roof of the cap....
either way, i aint risking it. thanks allan 
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: MA61 7M-GTE cooling/idling problems
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Wed, 23 March 2005 05:32
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allan you were right
three cheers for the:
blown head gasket!
it appears the metal hks gasket is now redundant, as there was water in cylinder one.
getting it fixed asap.
is it worth getting another metal head gasket and tightening it to 75ft/lbs? arp bolts yes or no?
cheers guys
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: MA61 7M-GTE cooling/idling problems
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Wed, 23 March 2005 05:37
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| Evil_Foetus wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 16:02 |
allan you were right
three cheers for the:
blown head gasket!
it appears the metal hks gasket is now redundant, as there was water in cylinder one.
getting it fixed asap.
is it worth getting another metal head gasket and tightening it to 75ft/lbs? arp bolts yes or no?
cheers guys
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Bugger Ryley. May have been a result of the car getting hot on the trip home ?
When I looked at the car, it was idling fine and at the right level even after the run.
Definite yes in getting the ARP studs though and torque to their recommended level.
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 7M-GTE cooling/idling problems
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Wed, 23 March 2005 05:37
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| Evil_Foetus wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 15:53 |
It has blown a headgasket twice, and is now on a HKS metal one, properly torqued down and has done about 20,000kms since.
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So it had already suffered two BHG's, and the oft-quoted MHG "fix" didn't prevent the third.
Ever heard the phrase "cut your losses"?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 7M-GTE cooling/idling problems
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Wed, 23 March 2005 06:21
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get a new toyota gasket, the head surfaced (ultra smooth slow feed any bullshit about the gasket needing "bite" go elsewhere) and arp studs, check the block and clean it till its spotless torque the studs to ARP specs ~110ft/lbs from memory with engine oil lube no more bhg issues
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: MA61 7M-GTE cooling/idling problems
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Wed, 23 March 2005 20:24
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 16:51 |
get a new toyota gasket, the head surfaced (ultra smooth slow feed any bullshit about the gasket needing "bite" go elsewhere) and arp studs, check the block and clean it till its spotless torque the studs to ARP specs ~110ft/lbs from memory with engine oil lube no more bhg issues
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When speaking to Drew, he mentioned that when they fitted the MHG, they drawfiled the block. Didn't ask what they did to the head though.
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Location:
BRAY PARK BRISBANE
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: MA61 7M-GTE cooling/idling problems
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Wed, 23 March 2005 22:44
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Been reading this for the last couple of days and if you have gone through 3 head gaskets in 20,000klm maybee its not the head gaskets but the head its self it may have a hairline crack in it. when it comes off this time for your own piece of mind get it preasure tested at a head specialist.
Just a thought. Good luck.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 7M-GTE cooling/idling problems
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Wed, 23 March 2005 23:45
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Thu, 24 March 2005 07:24 |
When speaking to Drew, he mentioned that when they fitted the MHG, they drawfiled the block. Didn't ask what they did to the head though.
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here is the problem i think - no way you can keep it perfectly flat by hand, check the block with a strait edge when you lift the head, considering its #1 cyl i would say thay did not take the dowls out of the block and there is a low spot around #1 as typicly it is #5 and #6 that blow, if its only a minor a stock gasket will cope.
Allan
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 7M-GTE cooling/idling problems
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Thu, 24 March 2005 00:40
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fark ryley - condolences dude.
you're running into more car-related problems than me!
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Location:
Arthurs Creek, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 7M-GTE cooling/idling problems
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Thu, 24 March 2005 01:37
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Too much booooost bro...
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: MA61 7M-GTE cooling/idling problems
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Thu, 24 March 2005 04:59
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thanks for all the condolances guys-
norbie- i only bought this car a month ago, the last two headgaskets were done in that lifetime...
basically, the first headgasket was done at 238,000kms (odometer reading, not actual engine kms), the next at 245 (the metal one). its now 267 or something and it died in the last two weeks. its a stock engine, nothing done to it. stock 5psi boost.
all the old head bolts were used, and i suspect that they probably didn't know you're supposed to torque the head down to the extra setting- im guessing they did the factory 52ft.lbs...
anyway, theres a dude here in ballarat thats a bit of a guru apparantly with imported and turbo stuff- so we went and saw him. he's going to do the headgasket, use aftermarket headbolts and knows the factory head torque setting is a joke. he built a 700hp 7M so i'm pretty sure it's in good hands. the block and head will be checked and machined to be as smooth as a mirror... taking it in for a quote next thursday.
so thanks for all your help guys. i really appreciate it.
i'll let you know how it all goes. cheers guys.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA61 7M-GTE cooling/idling problems
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Thu, 24 March 2005 05:18
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if your in need of any 7m bits let me know ill see what i have,
dont be afraid to bump up the compresson if your planing to keep it a street car and look at ed's site for some cheap work you can do yourself if you have time. a little work now will make a HUGE difference later, also make shure you use new toyota locking nuts on the turbo and manifold, you defeintly dont want to have to try and replace them later!
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Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: MA61 7M-GTE cooling/idling problems
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Thu, 24 March 2005 05:22
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hands up who thought straight off the bat it was a BHG...
Honestly I thought it was  sorry dude, need to get those head studs, must have M series item! Should be factory
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: MA61 7M-GTE cooling/idling problems
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Sat, 26 March 2005 02:00
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cheers guys. no new news as of yet, but ill get those locking nuts for the turbo and manifold like you recommened allan...
also, if anyone has a set of arp bolts, a 7mgte headgasket or a 7mgte isc valve i'd be pretty keen to hear from them..
thanks again for all your help guys- allan, yian, norbie, danners, joorsh, michael, greg, its great
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