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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Voltage in Radiator
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Tue, 22 March 2005 01:17
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Someone mentioned to me on the weekend that voltage in the radiator is bad, and causes corrosion and shit.
So as my car was cooling down, I tested it from and earth point to the coolant in the top tank.
I had 200mV.
Is this excessive?
Do I just put an earth strap on the core to the body to stop it? (I have plastic top and bottom tanks)
Can it do damage?
Thanks.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Tue, 22 March 2005 01:50
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maybe look into something like a sacrificial annode?
not sure about it at all.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Tue, 22 March 2005 02:39
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When designed the thermostat housing is the sacraficial anode thats part of the reason they get all corroded over time. Small boats use the same principle not sure with the big ones.
As for being too much voltage i dont think i would worry about it.
Cheers
Jason
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Tue, 22 March 2005 02:46
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| Jason wrote on Tue, 22 March 2005 10:39 |
When designed the thermostat housing is the sacraficial anode thats part of the reason they get all corroded over time.
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1UZ thermostat housings are plastic.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Tue, 22 March 2005 03:13
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Well cover me in pricks and call me a cactus.
That was my understanding in the older engines with a cast iron block eg 18r and k series.
Cheers
JAson
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Tue, 22 March 2005 03:19
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Hehe yeah.
I'm more worried about a corroding radiator though.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Tue, 22 March 2005 03:49
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In that case the newer radiators are made from aluminium anyhow.
Does your radiator have plastic top and bottom tanks?
If so the tanks will die before the radiator will I just had this happen on my other car and when i priced new tanks to be fitted a whole new radiator worked out to be about $50 more expensive.
Cheers
Jason
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Tue, 22 March 2005 03:51
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earth the core then?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Tue, 22 March 2005 04:05
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| Jason wrote on Tue, 22 March 2005 11:49 |
In that case the newer radiators are made from aluminium anyhow.
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Alum still corrodes
| Jason wrote on Tue, 22 March 2005 11:49 |
Does your radiator have plastic top and bottom tanks?
If so the tanks will die before the radiator will
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Yes, but they dude was telling me about it, has just replaced 3 radiators in 2 years, and he believes this is the cause of it.
Plastic tanks usually last 15+ years.
That is the plan, but I want to know a bit more about it before I'm happy with just doing that.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Tue, 22 March 2005 04:09
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aluminium takes a lot longer to corrode because it is a pasivating metal ie a protective oxide coating is formed when it comes in contact with the atmosphere ie air oxygen. Even acids will not make it corrode unless they are fairly strong. Trust me we did experiments with salt, distilled, tap water and weak acid in chem and the aluminium didn't corrode.
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Location:
NSW, East Coast
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Tue, 22 March 2005 05:45
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Massive corrosion in the radiator happened to a mate of mine, 1j in mx83, turn out there was power/electricity (electrolasis i think its called)in the water.
2 sec to figure it out and 20 secs to solve, a new radiator was the dearest part.
Just earth the radiator, and remove all doubt.
Cheers
Steve
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Tue, 22 March 2005 08:03
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nice find
thanks
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Location:
BRAY PARK BRISBANE
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Tue, 22 March 2005 22:12
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THIS IS THE BIT I FOUND SCARY!!!!!!!!
Depending on conditions it can be as quick as sixty days to ruin a radiator.
ID PUT AN EARTH STRAP ON.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Tue, 22 March 2005 22:26
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yeah but br0 elextr0l0siz is da new NOZ if u p1pe da hydr0gen n 0xygen into your POD j00 will get da extra 50kw at da fly.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Wed, 23 March 2005 00:58
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I love the average intelligence level - it drops more with every new user!
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Location:
tallahassee FL usOFa
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Wed, 23 March 2005 02:39
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i think the last thing you'd want to do is "ground" the radiator.
the object is to keep current away from it, not to use it as a conductor.
you've got tofind the source of the current and fix it, or ground it before it gets to the radiator. don't intentionally let the current run to a ground THROUGH the radiator.
the cost of a radiator is small compared to the price of putting in a new heater core under the dash. that's where most of these things show up first.
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Wed, 23 March 2005 03:23
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| allencr wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 13:09 |
i think the last thing you'd want to do is "ground" the radiator.
the object is to keep current away from it, not to use it as a conductor.
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Agreed.
Grounding it would only make the problem worse...
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Wed, 23 March 2005 03:27
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Maybe this is why my heater cores keep buggering up.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Lwr Templestowe, Melbourne
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Wed, 23 March 2005 03:32
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| TurboRA28 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 14:27 |
Maybe this is why my heater cores keep buggering up.
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Hrmmm... I seem to have that problem too. I was gunna go back to the dudes that re-cored my heater core and belt them over the head, but this might prove to be the problem.
How would you stop it from happening? Just go ape-shit with grouding wires?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Wed, 23 March 2005 03:34
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Dunno hey, my core is only 2 years old, coolant is Toyota Red and is 6 months old, Thermostat is genuine Toyota and is 6 months old.
I've got two 8 guages grounds (one on each head), and two 4 guage grounds (one on either side of the block), plus two 4 guage from the battery to the chassis (battery is in boot), so I doubt grounding is a problem on my motor.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Wed, 23 March 2005 03:37
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Ground the block then? anything on the chassis is on the chassis already (duh) but the block might not be earthed properly and causing it?!... but honestly I think your overreacting.. 200mv is nothing, try measuring your hand or something.
haha only on toymods! 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Wed, 23 March 2005 03:39
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Did you read that link I posted?
Anything over 150mV on an alloy block can cause problems.
While I'm not taking that link as gospel, I'm definately not dismissing it as bullshit.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Lwr Templestowe, Melbourne
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Wed, 23 March 2005 04:31
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| CrUZsida wrote on Wed, 23 March 2005 14:34 |
Dunno hey, my core is only 2 years old, coolant is Toyota Red and is 6 months old, Thermostat is genuine Toyota and is 6 months old.
I've got two 8 guages grounds (one on each head), and two 4 guage grounds (one on either side of the block), plus two 4 guage from the battery to the chassis (battery is in boot), so I doubt grounding is a problem on my motor.
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eh..? My core was only 6 months. Give or take. Probably closer to 8 months old and it was letting out a little coolant onto my carpet. Nothing drastic, but pink carpet in a blue interior kinda stands out.
And you definitely have more groundage than me. Time to nuts with grouding wire then 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Wed, 23 March 2005 15:47
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Speak to the guys at Natrad in Armadale - I recall seeing a segment on "Cruizin" regarding aluminium radiators, stray current, and the solutions to it.
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Wed, 23 March 2005 17:16
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"Voltage of zero to .3 is normal in a coolant of cast iron engine. Such an engine will be destroyed with time by .5 volts, and engine manufactures are reporting .15 volts will destroy an aluminum engine."
I assume you did all they say in that article? Changed coolant?
Try to measure is there difference in measuring from battery terminal or battery cable, then move toward engine. Where the voltage drops, you can find poor grounding point.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Wed, 23 March 2005 18:29
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luckily with my TA22 the radiator is earthed when its bolted to the radiator support... but i might measure it to see anyway
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Location:
tallahassee FL usOFa
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Wed, 23 March 2005 18:59
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fade-e, its not luck for your radiator being earthed, in fact being earthed is the opposite of what you want when there is stray current present.
from http://www.rondavisradiators.com/tech.htm
Thanks Ron Davis & CrUZsida for pointing us to it.
Testing for electrolysis in cooling systems
A voltmeter capable of reading both AC and DC currents is required to test cooling systems. The meter needs to read zero to the maximum voltage of the system being tested in tenths of a volt. The meter leads must be long enough to reach between the coolant and the groundside of the battery. An ohm function of a voltmeter is very helpful to pinpoint areas of resistance in as electrical system that will cause an electrical current to ground through the coolant rather than the engineered electrical circuit
Procedure
Attach the proper meter lead to the groundside of the battery, negative-to-negative or positive-to-positive.
Install the second lead in the coolant touching the coolant only.
Read the DC and AC voltage with all systems off. If a block heater is present, also take a reading with the heater turned on. If an automatic battery charger is present, as a standby system, also take a reading with this system running.
Read the DC and AC voltage with the electrical starter engaged.
Read the DC and the AC voltage with the engine running and all systems turned on: lights, coolers, fans, heaters, air conditioning, cell phone, two-way radio, including the phone and radio on both standby and transmit.
The above procedure will test a complete system except for an electrical current, which can be generated by the rear end transmission. This is particularly true with air bag suspensions, rubber pad suspensions and rubber-mounted transmissions. Any current generated will travel up to the drive shaft to ground through the engine coolant. Grounding rear ends and transmissions is strongly recommended.
Voltage of zero to .3 is normal in a coolant of cast iron engine. Such an engine will be destroyed with time by .5 volts, and engine manufactures are reporting .15 volts will destroy an aluminum engine.
The current will be AC if the problem is due to static electricity.
If the coolant shows an electrical problem with all the equipment turned on; turn off one system at a time until you finally turn off the system that stops the electrical current. When the current stops, this will indicate the electrical system causing the problem.
Be partially careful of starters. They can cause as much damage to a cooling system as a direct connection to an arc welder. This is due to the amperage present.
Always change the coolant if a current is detected. The electrical current will destroy the protecting chemicals in a properly inhibited coolant.
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Location:
Menai area of Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Voltage in Radiator
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Thu, 24 March 2005 01:53
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Its got a 50/50 mix of Toyota Red and distilled water.
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