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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
January 2005
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 RA65/22RE start up problems
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Sun, 03 April 2005 09:03
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I've got an RA65 Celica. It has been at the mechanics for about a week due to a start up problem. For the first time in the morning the car takes up to 5 goes to get going, however if left in the sun it sometimes starts up first time. The injectors have been overhauled, fuel mix adjusted, new AFM, just can't figure out what the problem is!!! I noticed that the ignition coil is really old, looks original. Could that be the cause of the problem, and old ignition coil?
If anyone has any solutions, or has even had the same problem I would love to hear from ya, CAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO!!!
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.vic.au
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: RA65/22RE start up problems
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Sun, 03 April 2005 09:19
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Check to see if the Cold start air bypass valve is working, if it's not replace it... It may look like this:
Please note that this is a shot of a 5M-E motor.
Cheers.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: RA65/22RE start up problems
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Sun, 03 April 2005 09:25
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The cold start air bypass valve is working perfectly. All injectors are firing during ignition, and air flow is normal. That's why I've been thinking that this problem has to be electrical not mechanical.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: RA65/22RE start up problems
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Sun, 03 April 2005 10:23
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I know you said the injectors have been overheauled, but I note you said it was being worked on by a mechanic. Mechanics suffer from (a) wanting to make money out of you and (b) not knowing what they're talking about anyway.
So, cleaning the cold start injector is definitely something that could have been overlooked (or planning to come back to later after they've taken your money for other stuff you don't need). I have an RT142 (also 22RE) and there is a problem with the cold start injector wiring. I hate wiring, so just unplugged it instead. It won't be perfect, but after 6 months I've never had an occasion where it wouldn't start after a few quick attempts.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: RA65/22RE start up problems
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Sun, 03 April 2005 11:17
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The mechanic is actually a really good mate of mine. And he called me in every now and then to show me the progress he was making on the car. The cold start injector is definately firing, as are all the other injectors. That's why I am thinking that it is something electrical, and the only thing that I could really think of is the ignition coil, being so old.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: RA65/22RE start up problems
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Sun, 03 April 2005 12:17
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fuel pump? or fuel system dodgy somehow?
when car heats up there's pressure in the tank until you start the car (whe ncharcoal cannister then dumps fuel vapour into the intake manifold
checked fuel pressure in the rail?
testing coil is easy - attach a plug directly to the coil and crank the car - if no spark then toss.
old-looking coil might not be an issue - the coil in my ma61 looks to be age of car (made in '84) - and it (the coil) still works
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: RA65/22RE start up problems
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Mon, 04 April 2005 10:47
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Ok, fuel pump could be a possibility, that could account for a lack in fuel pressure if there is. I was told by my mate that fuel pressure is fine, but he might have meant when the car was running not before it started. So what would be the best, easiest, and cheapest way to test if the fuel pump is the cause of the problem?
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Location:
melb
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: RA65/22RE start up problems
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Mon, 04 April 2005 12:32
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A Common fault with that car is the circuit open relay that turns on the fuel pump when cranking.
also leaking injectors 1. floods engine 2.drops fuel pressure while parked that it must build up again be for starting.
best fix get fuel pressure gauge, run, turn off, leave for a few hours and see if pressure drops.
hope this helps
MATT.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: RA65/22RE start up problems
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Mon, 04 April 2005 13:19
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From what I was told the injectors were leaking initially cause they were clogged up and needed to be cleaned out, which they were and then the injectors were overhauled. It seems everyone would agree that it is a fuel pressure problem. How easy is it to connect a fuel pressure guage?
BTW thanks for all the help from all those who have posted on this thread! 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: RA65/22RE start up problems
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Mon, 04 April 2005 22:26
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go to wreckers and steal the fuel line feeding a Cold Start Injector (CSI)
take home and chop off injector end
go to an auto store and get a FP guage with bayonet fitting to suit pipe
go to engine bay, remove CSI and put FP guage in its place
easy!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
January 2005
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 Re: RA65/22RE start up problems
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Wed, 06 April 2005 10:57
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In regards to the fuel pump, where is it located on the 22RE? Also how can you test it to see if anything is wrong with it?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: RA65/22RE start up problems
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Wed, 06 April 2005 12:33
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in an RA65 it's probably located in the fuel tank - if not inside it then very close by the tan. hop under the car and have a look.
as for checking it, just undo the fuel line feeding the CSI, stuck the end into a small bucket (to catch fuel that will otherwise go everywhere adn probably start a fire) and get a mate to turn the key to IGN (NOT START!) for 3-5 seconds - you should hear the pump working and you should get petrol pumping thru the CSI fuel line
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: RA65/22RE start up problems
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Fri, 15 April 2005 02:36
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Checked the fuel pump an no problem there. Spoke to the RAA and my mechanic and both said that on the start for some reason their just isn't enough fuel being pumped in, and it is most likely related to the temp sensor, the sensor itself to the best of my knowledge is working fine, but it is not being being read properly, cause the engine is starting very lean because it thinks it is starting in the heat. Any ideas as to how I can sort this out? PLEASE!!!
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.vic.au
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: RA65/22RE start up problems
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Fri, 15 April 2005 15:07
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Changed your fuel filters? Checked to see if you have a kinked fuel line? Um... I can't think of anything else at the moment...
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: RA65/22RE start up problems
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Fri, 15 April 2005 15:16
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Fuel filter is brand new, no problems with the fuel line whatsoever. For some reason the engine just isn't pumping enough fuel in on start up, and so it takes a while to get it going. I'm almost ready to get rid of this car, it's driving me nuts!
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.vic.au
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: RA65/22RE start up problems
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Fri, 15 April 2005 15:29
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Check to see if your fuel tank is getting pressure by checking the seal around the petrol cap... That may be another reason.
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Location:
Perth Western Australia
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: RA65/22RE start up problems
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Fri, 15 April 2005 17:31
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new starter motor/coil/
get new spark plugs
goto ultra tune with it - give them $200 and say fix my non starting problem
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: RA65/22RE start up problems
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Sat, 16 April 2005 00:08
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Yeah, checked that, seal is fine. From what I understand the fuel pressure is fine, no probs with that at all. It's just when the car starts there isn't enough fuel running through (from what I have been told) and this could be due to the car thinking that it is trying to start in hot weather, even though the cold start injector is firing.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: RA65/22RE start up problems
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Sun, 17 April 2005 00:53
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Already run tests on the starter motor and ignition coil, both are working, and considering their age that's not bad. Already got new sparks in there, aswell as distributor cables. I've just decided, even though I got no money, to get it sorted out at an EFI specialist. Hope it's nothing serious, got no money. Might ask for a student discount 
It's quite unusual that it has this problem, cause it actually runs so beautifully. The engine is really quiet and smooth, once the oil has circulated, got really thick Penrite HPR 50 in there. No smoke out the back whatsoever, running on Premium now so got some extra grunt in there. Probably the only thing I need to do to get the car running smoother is replace the CV joints, one of them has a split in the boot and the other the boot has fallen apart.
I'll be sure to let all you guys know what the problem was. Thanks for all your help, really appreciate it.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: RA65/22RE start up problems
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Tue, 19 April 2005 10:17
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Would you believe it, it was the smallest of things, so small it was almost impossible to find. What happened was that the mechanic who use to work on the car for the previous owner wired up the starter motor wrong, so that when the car was cold it wouldn't fire the cold start injector but it did when it was hot. So after all that was fixed no probs starting it in the coldest of mornings, yipeeeeeeeee!!!!
Now that's fixed, some more questions. Does anyone know where the relay is for the windscreen wipers? The first setting on my wipers doesn't work (I think it is spelt intermidant?), but all the other settings do.
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