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Location:
sydney, my house
Registered:
September 2002
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3tgte turbo upgrade
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Sat, 16 November 2002 12:49
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I have a 3tgte turbo in my celica but feel the ct20 turbo just isnt cutting it anymore...
The engine is completly standard apart from a type 3 BOV, turobsmart boost controller and running 14psi and a (high flowed CT20)...
Keep in mind i have no idea of what hi flowed means so if someone here could point this out to me that would be great 
my biggest dislike is that boost dosent seem to come on very strong untill 3400 and then seems to run out of puff at 5200
in that range its great but anything below or above is a bit sluggish..
I am looking into a big FMIC with water sprayers and a divis craig fan blowing over the intercooler continusoly. i estimate this type of system will decrease intake temprature enough to run 14psi through summer with no problems
But i need i better turbo solution...
I would like boost to come on at around 2000 and go strong till 6000.
What is the best solution?
so far i have considered the following:
CT26
TO3
T28
The turbo off the nissan VG30DET
Also if you have any idea where you can get one for a good price that would help...
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Sun, 17 November 2002 02:15
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to have full boost at 2000rpm and not run out of puff at the top of the rev range is a big ask.
How much power do you want to make?
The CT26 will not make boost that early, its more like the CT20 for response, but doesnt run out of puff up top, and will supply cooler air for the same boost level.
If you get a VG30, make sure its a ball bearing one, they came out with conventional bearings also, and they are quite laggy.
TO3 comprises many many different housing & wheel combinations, from shitty old designs, to newer generation (more efficient) wheels. You still wont get full boost at 2000rpm.
A ball bearing RB20 turbo spools nice an early, and will supply enough airflow to make up to 140kw at the wheels, limited only by the ceramic turbine which cant really handle more than 14psi. These turbos are a lot more common, and therefore cheaper, than VG30. It would be my pick for value for money and reasonable performance upgrade.
Cheers
Phil
[Updated on: Sun, 17 November 2002 02:18]
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Location:
sydney, my house
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Sun, 17 November 2002 04:55
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Thanks for the advise... sounds good.
Will the RB20 ball bearing produce cooler compressed air than the ct20? and will it be able to handle 14psi as a daily driver.
140kw @ the wheels huh... i have never dyno'd the 3tgte i have and dont know what it puts out at the wheels.
how much would you expect to pay for the RB20 turbo.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Sun, 17 November 2002 04:59
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Not sure exactly how much it would be. I could forsee the RB20 turbo producing slightly cooler boost, and then there is the bonus, if its not quite enough for you, an RB25 or a VG30 turbo would both fit on the manifold you need to get made for the RB20
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Sun, 17 November 2002 10:44
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hey how are you running 14PSI
i have about ~9 PSI and the car was going well, thats just from the free flowing exhaust etc dump pipe etc etc
now i have the 4AGZE cooler at the front, i lost a few PSI with the pipes and cooler, but now i can only still run 10PSI before sometimes eg hot, going up a steep hill on full boost in 4th gear (amost the worst case?) i hint at pinging, i may have been running 12PSI at that stage...... cant remember
12psi at the throttle, prob 15 at the turbo ... maybe its to hot to gain power / run more boost?
stock turbo... any idea's stock ECU also been on the dyno to tune it but cant run more boost
didn't think it was a heat related prob, (had thermocouples in the pipes and there was a large heat drop over the cooler but never got warm at the throttle..
ignition maybe?
or turbo (crap old CT20)
thanks guys
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Sun, 17 November 2002 11:02
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turbocelica: Are you running the factory computer? Are you sure its not running lean, or your base timing is set too far advanced?
I found with the factory computer that I couldnt run more than 12psi without a lean misfire & detonation.
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Location:
sydney, my house
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Mon, 18 November 2002 00:24
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he is in surrey hills vic
Hey guys,
I've got problems with the 18RG in the TA22...
the fuel pump doesnt seem to pump when its going up hill...
whats the go?
that car has 1/2 tank.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Mon, 18 November 2002 07:18
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who's in surry hills?
Yes its factory computer etc, only change is the custom pump pipe, intercooler, up boost, and a short inlet track (just off turbo)
i'v had it tuned 2 times and running factory setings. Maybe its spark plugs? tried 2 sets.... never though of it but maybe there to hot?
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Location:
sydney, my house
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Mon, 18 November 2002 07:54
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| celikar wrote on Mon, 18 November 2002 11:24 |
he is in surrey hills vic
Hey guys,
I've got problems with the 18RG in the TA22...
the fuel pump doesnt seem to pump when its going up hill...
whats the go?
that car has 1/2 tank.<b
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WTF!!!!! i didn't post this!!! somehow the forums have messed up!!!
anyways i am running 14 psi with wait for it...... no intercooler EEEK!!!
i cant use boost on a hot day or i get pinging.
but once i drove the car in canberra at 2am with an ambient temp of about 1deg.
holy crap now i know what boost should be like!!
i cant wait for a decent intercooler and a bigger turbo hehe
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Mon, 18 November 2002 10:53
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I'd say the high flow turbo must be flowing more air, hence the boost level aint as hot (or hard to get) with your setup,
where as i'm running stock turbo and pressure drop across the intercooler....
dam maybe its time for a new turbo
nahhhh only if i dont sell it enough money! has been spent
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Mon, 18 November 2002 11:34
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high flowed means that a given turbo e.g the one i have for sale for $1000!{haha}that is high flowed t3 will pump more air than a standard t3. mine will pump air for 400hp. this does not mean you will make 400hp, means the turbo can support 400hp. but on lower boost at say 250hp the charge temp will be much lower than a turbo that was made to flow 250hp.
mick
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Tue, 19 November 2002 01:26
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hence mine is working much harder, making a lot of very hot air where his may well be doing it easy and producing cooler air, hence why he can run more boost yeah?
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Tue, 19 November 2002 11:01
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yes that would be one of the reasons.
mick
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Tue, 19 November 2002 11:44
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Guys,
apart from the heat of the compressor housing I would have thought there was no difference in inlet temperatures other than that caused by compressing air. 1 psi on one turbo would heat air as much as 1 psi on another? Or are there such _significant_ inefficiencies in the turbine design that air is heated _considerably_ more in some designs than others?
Also how much does a custom exhaust manifold cost to be made up for the 3tgte?
What are the priniples for their design - e.g., do all pipes have to be equal length or are they staggard somehow?
David
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Tue, 19 November 2002 21:53
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From what I understand, a more efficient compressor wheel will supply the charged air at a lower temperature for the same boost as a less efficient wheel. This is acheived through the design/size/shape of the blades on the compressor wheel through much research & development.
A custom manifold could cost you anywhere between $100 (if you do it yourself) or $400-$800 depending which workshop you choose.
The argument regarding equal length pipes is one that I dont think ever comes to a solid conclusion. I personally dont feel that it is essential to make the manifold equal length, for the minor gains that may be had.
Cheers 
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Thu, 21 November 2002 03:23
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Hey, if you want to go gull buzzed out with your 3SGTE, i bought a set of 50mm quad throttle bodies (with two injectors on each port) from a guy who was running them on a 3sgte. It came with the plenum too.
I abandoned the project of buzzing out the 2t and i'm thinking of selling, but only for the right price. I purchased a full delco computer (loom, sensors, etc) and bosch fuel pump too. If any of you guys are interested, email me on supra7mgte@hotmail.com
Cheers
Frank
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Fri, 29 November 2002 11:03
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FYI,
I have a 3TGTE with an RB20 ball bearing turbo. The mod is pretty easy - just requires a manifold adapter and some mucking around with oil and water lines. Boost response is about even with CT20 but gives better high end flow. Only bad thing is getting the oil drain from the turbo back to the motor. I've found that when you add an adapter between the manifold and the turbo inlet it drops the turbo down quite a bit relative to the engine block. This causes the oil drain pipe to have a fall of only 15 degrees off horizontal. This results in oil and foam filling the turbo and passing through the exhaust seals on engine overrun (after the turbo has stopped spinning) causing smoke from the exhaust. A bit embarrassing.
Anyone else had similar problems?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Fri, 29 November 2002 12:49
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The CT26 on my 3TGTE was a similar situation, with the turbo being physically larger than the CT20, so that the oil drain turned 90 degrees and went into the block almost horizontally.
Never had problems with the oil not draining enough to cause it to back up in the core though, maybe the design of the Nissan turbo is more prone to this than the toyota CT26.
What is the internal diameter of the nissan oil drain? Perhaps the problem could be fixed with a larger diameter, provided its currently smaller than the hole in the side of the block.
Cheers
Phil
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Fri, 29 November 2002 12:57
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did you find a large improvment with the ct26? i imagin you would have. i have planed to do this to mine for some times but never got around to it
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Sat, 30 November 2002 02:42
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ben (Turbocelica), sorry to get off topic but just been looking at your site and saw your electronic dash in your TA22, guchi! Did you put it in yourself? Was it hard to modify the loom for it, and whats it out of?
cheers
rob
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Sat, 30 November 2002 03:19
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sorry i made a boo boo on the web page its a phot of my halfcut dash. i ref'd the wrong photo. I would imagin it to be a huge pain in the arse !!!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: 3tgte turbo upgrade
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Mon, 02 December 2002 04:00
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Phil,
The drain on the Nissan turbo is smaller than the hole in the block (about 3/8" compared to 1/2") so this is something I will look at when I pull the Turbo off next time. I'm also wondering whether it has anything to do with high oil pressure/volume that the 3TGTE uses in comparison to the Nissan RB25 that it came from. I'll post the result when I fix it or get bamboozled.
Rgds,
Greg
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