| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Southport
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 02:44
|
 |
Alright Guys,
I know it is sacrilegious, but I was wondering, has anyone ever seen or heard of putting a V6 commodore motor in a RA28. My main reasoning is, My dad had VP taxi, the engine done over 1million KM's and never missed a beat, I also have a brother with a rusted out vn with good motor and gerbox, and there are heaps of wrecked commos (learn to drive!!!) so I figure parts become much easier to source. I have seen a soara V8 in one, so a V6 should be easy. It also makes it easier to get fuel as not all have super, lrp and some places do not have premium yet.
If anyone has seen one, or knows an engineer who will consider the disrespectful prospect, let me know.
Thanks
Justin
P.S please Toyota gods, don't hate me....
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
BRAY PARK BRISBANE
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 03:26
|
|
here is an engineer that could help you has been able to help me with my conversion questions so far
Bruce Hartwig West End (07) 3255 1621
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 04:48
|
|
|
you will not get it complianced in QLD 2.5 turboed or 2.9 NA you need a car over 1400kg for that size motor
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 04:57
|
|
| PayneyCelica18rg wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 10:44 |
My main reasoning is, My dad had VP taxi, the engine done over 1million KM's and never missed a beat, I also have a brother with a rusted out vn with good motor and gerbox
|
Your logic is flawed.
Almost any motor will go that far if its kept at running temperature and serviced well.
Your brothers motor will die in a few years, I can guarentee it.
A cars condition is usually a good indicator of the motors condition.
If the car hasn't been looked after, chances are the motor hasn't either.
Find a better reason or find a better motor.
ie, a 1GGTE will shit on the V6.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 04:58
|
|
| ra_28 wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 12:48 |
you will not get it complianced in QLD 2.5 turboed or 2.9 NA you need a car over 1400kg for that size motor
|
Might wanna recheck those figures dude.
VN's are stock with 3.8L and 1330kg.
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 05:11
|
|
| CrUZsida wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 14:27 |
ie, a 1GGTE will shit on the V6.
|
Plus it wont sound like it's about to fall apart... oh no... it'll sound awesome like all inline 6's made by toyota! 
|
|
|
Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 05:19
|
|
i really dont care what you do with your car but im replying because what you said about fuel intrigued me.
your RA28 engine can already run on regular unleaded, in fact most alloy head toyota engines will run fine on regular unleaded. this would make your fuel argument a moot point.
|
|
|
Location:
BRAY PARK BRISBANE
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 05:59
|
|
ring that guy and he will tell you all you ned to know! 
dont let anyone talk you out of what you want to do they dont seem to like non toyota motors around here im having the same problem 
and before i get fried i know they are only recomendations but some people seem to push to hard, my 2c
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 06:06
|
|
|
just letting you know might not be 1400 on the dot but still your unable to put such a large motor in such a light car i've looked into this other wise i would have put a 2jzgte in a RA28
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 06:12
|
|
| ra_28 wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 14:06 |
just letting you know might not be 1400 on the dot but still your unable to put such a large motor in such a light car i've looked into this other wise i would have put a 2jzgte in a RA28
|
It would be closer to 1200kg if not less, not 1400kg.
There are plenty of people with legal 2jzgte's in MA61's which weigh 1360kg.
By your maths the 2jzge wouldn't even be legal.
|
|
|
Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
February 2005
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 06:12
|
|
| HyDrA wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 15:11 |
Plus it wont sound like it's about to fall apart... oh no... it'll sound awesome like all inline 6's made by toyota!
|
Hi-fives HyDrA
 
|
|
|
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
February 2005
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 06:24
|
|
well wwhat about the 2litre v6 toyota motor? that ppl call the 1ggte v6?  im not sure wat is called soa t this point 1ggv6!
sounds like a good converstion if u start it take some pics n show off!
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 06:25
|
|
|
point might be 1200 but no less a 28 almost weighs that somewhere round the 1140 mark
|
|
|
Location:
Toowoomba
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 06:53
|
|
|
then can someone please explain how someone here in Toowoomba got a 302v8 rego'd in a tc cortina or how a mk2 cortina ended up rego'd with a 302 in brissy now i know a mk2 cortina is not that heavy and a 302 is 4.9 liters so how did that get passed?
|
|
|
Location:
BRAY PARK BRISBANE
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 06:57
|
|
| flyinwall wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 16:53 |
then can someone please explain how someone here in Toowoomba got a 302v8 rego'd in a tc cortina or how a mk2 cortina ended up rego'd with a 302 in brissy now i know a mk2 cortina is not that heavy and a 302 is 4.9 liters so how did that get passed?
|
what colour is that cortina? mates cousin has one in toowoomba 351 cortina but its still reg as a 4cyl  has been for 3 or 4 years now
|
|
|
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
December 2004
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 06:57
|
|
the early 3800 (buick) engines are fucking shit engines anyway..
just take one look at where the thermostat is located on the series 1 VN, and all of those series 1 VN's have horrible cooling systems..
go for a 1ggte, 1ggze or something... if your hell bent on putting in an aussie engine, find an ecotec at least...
such a light car should not be powered by a boat anchor..
Eldar.O.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 07:01
|
|
|
I THINK YOU BETTER CHECK THE WEIGHT OF A CORTINA THERE NOT THAT LIGHT IF YOU STEP OVER THE "1200" MARK BIG DIFFERENCE WHAT YOU CAN PUT UNDER THE BONNET
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 07:03
|
|
Mk1 and MkII Cortina's are light.
Its the TC/TD/TE/TF models that are like falcon's.
|
|
|
Location:
Toowoomba
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 07:16
|
|
|
i think the v8 corty is dark blue or dark burgandy (i can't remember and i only saw it from a distance but i heard it well from that distance and boy was it nice sounding)
|
|
|
Location:
BRAY PARK BRISBANE
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 07:21
|
|
|
if it was dark blue with an air cleaner out the bonnet adverage paint would be him
|
|
|
On Probation
Location:
North East NSW
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 08:05
|
|
how about you all just learn the rules and stop arguing?
all vehicles under 1100kg with factory 4 cylinder can have weight*3 naturally aspirated, and weight*2.5 forced induction
so if your car weighs 1000kg, you can put in a 3000cc na or 2500cc turbo or blown engine
"other vehicles" - 4 cylinders over 1100kg, and anything with more than 4 cylinders factory - can have weight*4.82 na and weight*4 forced. or if they are separate chassis vehicles (eg: 4x4, hq holden, etc) weight*5.46 na or weight*4.68 forced
weight is based on the sedan model of the vehicle, fitted with its largest optional engine. rotaries are considered displacement x2. doesn't apply to vehicles over 4.5 tonnes
visit the RTA website and download vehicle standards information sheet 6 - that's where i got all this from
to the original poster
you could put a v6 commodore motor in, but why? they are alot heavier than any factory optional motor, so your car will be very nose heavy and it will ruin the handling which toyota have actually done a pretty good job of setting up
the old v6 engines are pretty rubbishy as far as strength and efficiency goes, and the new ones (ecotec/alloytec) are pretty expensive. and realistically not much better motors. you could spend the money and have a much better celica motor, and still have enough left to do your interior and suspension, maybe some wheels and tyres too
essentially it's your car and you can do what you want, but i don't think anyone here who understands about the dynamics of modifying a car would suggest you put an ordinary old v6 commodore donk into your classic japanese motor vehicle
and as stated above, you likely wouldn't be able to get it registered anyway, i don't know much about celicas but i doubt an ra28 would weigh over 1100kg
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 08:18
|
|
| Super Jamie wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 16:05 |
how about you all just learn the rules and stop arguing?
|
Different rules for different states dude.
We don't even have weight rules in WA.
I was just pointing out that the weight he states was way to high.
|
|
|
Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 08:22
|
|
why not fit a mazda 2.5 litre v6 quad cam engine
i have wired one up in a gemini
had to get custom extractors but the rest seemed like any other conversion
these engines come front wheel drive but this gemini was rwd so i know there are gboxes out there that fit it to go rwd
and theese engines are jap import so they are sometimes low km
and cheap
|
|
|
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
December 2004
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 10:34
|
|
| CrUZsida wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 16:18 |
| Super Jamie wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 16:05 |
how about you all just learn the rules and stop arguing?
|
Different rules for different states dude.
We don't even have weight rules in WA.
I was just pointing out that the weight he states was way to high.
|
oh man i love WA, its fucking boring, but i love it now
fuck the 3T idea in the ta22, im going for an inline six!
Eldar.O.
|
|
|
Location:
Forster NSW
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 12:39
|
|
| EldarO wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 20:34 |
| CrUZsida wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 16:18 |
| Super Jamie wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 16:05 |
how about you all just learn the rules and stop arguing?
|
Different rules for different states dude.
We don't even have weight rules in WA.
I was just pointing out that the weight he states was way to high.
|
oh man i love WA, its fucking boring, but i love it now
fuck the 3T idea in the ta22, im going for an inline six!
Eldar.O.
|
You'll have fun fitting a straight six in the '22 engine bay...
|
|
|
On Probation
Location:
North East NSW
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 12:49
|
|
|
1g-gte would have to be do-able. you can fit them into ke30s stock, you could even shoe one into a ke20 if you tried!
|
|
|
On Probation
Location:
nsw
Registered:
March 2004
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 12:59
|
|
|
There was one on ebay a couple of weeks ago for about $800
|
|
|
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
December 2004
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 15:18
|
|
| Dale_ta22 wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 20:39 |
| EldarO wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 20:34 |
| CrUZsida wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 16:18 |
| Super Jamie wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 16:05 |
how about you all just learn the rules and stop arguing?
|
Different rules for different states dude.
We don't even have weight rules in WA.
I was just pointing out that the weight he states was way to high.
|
oh man i love WA, its fucking boring, but i love it now
fuck the 3T idea in the ta22, im going for an inline six!
Eldar.O.
|
You'll have fun fitting a straight six in the '22 engine bay...
|
you obviously havent seen the 1ggte powered ta/ra celicas getting around then?
not to mention one with a V8?
Eldar.O.
|
|
|
Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Thu, 21 April 2005 15:26
|
|
I've actually managed to resist posting on here so far 
Kinds of reminds me of a guy who comes around to just talk every day or two - 'yeah, the old 202 has proven itself, my brothers-uncles-tailors-real estate agents-sisters-vets-lawn mowing guy had one, 950,000KM and it still runs smooth as'
This is the same guy who reckons he can recharge an alkaline torch battery in less than 10 minutes to full capacity...
|
|
|
Location:
Southport
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Fri, 22 April 2005 01:25
|
|
OK OK, i get it....
If i can't get it rego'd, then it is not going to be much good to me, You are right though, a mate showed me a mag yesterday where a guy has a toyota V8 in an RA28 (drag racing of course), and it was blowing away all the big yank V8's anyway. the article then went on to say that he hadn't done much work to the motor, just hung a blower off it, and if he killed it, then he can get a complete motor for the less than the price of set of rings for a chev.....
Spacewise, He did not have a radiator, just dry ice in the boot....
Back to the drawing board.
|
|
|
Location:
BRAY PARK BRISBANE
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Fri, 22 April 2005 01:33
|
|
|
did you ring the engineer? he will tell you 100% for shure if you can do it or not. rules change for age, weight, light comersial etc etc. ring him its 40c for christ sake
|
|
|
On Probation
Location:
North East NSW
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Fri, 22 April 2005 01:46
|
|
you can register anything with enough money and by making it safe enough
the above rules are for Modified Production Vehicles. the next stage beyond this is an Independantly Constructed Vehicle. you need to have the car tested for torsional rigidity, and bring it up to a safety level applicable to CURRENT ADRs. the testing itself usually costs about 10-15 grand, and you obviously need to spend ALOT of money making a 1970s celica as safe as a 2005 model car
a dude in adelaide recently registered a V8 gemini as an ICV
but seriously, if you spent 15 grand on a 3sgte in an A series celica, you'd have a much better car than a rollcage with a v8 and some celica guards hung off it
|
|
|
Location:
BRAY PARK BRISBANE
Registered:
March 2005
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Fri, 22 April 2005 01:53
|
|
| Super Jamie wrote on Fri, 22 April 2005 11:46 |
a rollcage with a v8 and some celica guards hung off it
|
|
|
|
Location:
Forster NSW
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Fri, 22 April 2005 02:45
|
|
| EldarO wrote on Fri, 22 April 2005 01:18 |
| Dale_ta22 wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 20:39 |
| EldarO wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 20:34 |
| CrUZsida wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 16:18 |
| Super Jamie wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 16:05 |
how about you all just learn the rules and stop arguing?
|
Different rules for different states dude.
We don't even have weight rules in WA.
I was just pointing out that the weight he states was way to high.
|
oh man i love WA, its fucking boring, but i love it now
fuck the 3T idea in the ta22, im going for an inline six!
Eldar.O.
|
You'll have fun fitting a straight six in the '22 engine bay...
|
you obviously havent seen the 1ggte powered ta/ra celicas getting around then?
not to mention one with a V8?
Eldar.O.
|
No, I've seen them, but maintain that you'll have fun fitting one in there!
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Fri, 22 April 2005 12:40
|
|
| Quote: |
P.S please Toyota gods, don't hate me....
|
Well, I think you did stir them very well
| Quote: |
well wwhat about the 2litre v6 toyota motor? that ppl call the 1ggte v6? im not sure wat is called soa t this point 1ggv6!
|
Hmm... a 1VZFE- 2.0l, or the 2VZFE-2.5l... How bout the 5VZFE from a prado or Hilux with a TRD S/C from CAPA, RWD Should be a piece of cake!, Now That's gotta be different... but really, as everyone else is saying, A bommadore V6?
| Quote: |
you can register anything with enough money and by making it safe enough
|
True.. and everthing else Jamie has said is true, as NSW is the biggest bastard of a place to register anything modified, Stick to those rules and weight you'll be fine, as the SAE and IEA both follow these guide lines.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
January 2005
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Fri, 12 August 2005 14:02
|
|
how u know this? u tried it b4, or are you an inspector. If the latter,....... there's big $$$$$$$ 4 u.. jus jks. Let me know what is required. eehhhhh
|
|
|
Location:
Townsville
Registered:
February 2005
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Sat, 13 August 2005 01:23
|
|
One of the blokes who races up at the sprints here is an engineer, he says the most controversial thing he ever based was a 3.8 v6 in a trike. So if it can go into a shitty trike, then you have no worry
The yanks love those 3800's, I think the versions they have are a fair bit more advanced and reliable than ours. I think a stock v6 with manual in an early celica would probably be still capable of doing a low 15, with a nice usuable torque hump, so really its up to you. They do sound like absolute crap though, im not arguing that!
|
|
|
On Probation
Location:
North East NSW
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Sat, 13 August 2005 01:41
|
|
the buick v6 is crap
spend a whole heap of cash and time and effort putting one in a celica and you're right, you will run a 15. you'll also have a car which doesn't turn and is unbalanced and crap to drive
spend a few hundred bucks on a turbo or blower and whack it on the stock four cylinder and you'll be into 14s and the thing still handles
|
|
|
Location:
brisbane
Registered:
December 2004
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Sat, 13 August 2005 01:46
|
|
|
a low 15 for all that money and killing the handling of the car by putting a heavy engine in lol... id rethink my engine if i were you
|
|
|
Location:
u.s.a. south
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Sat, 13 August 2005 18:13
|
|
everybody *says* that when you replace the 4cyl in an s13 with a 6cyl, that you "ruin" the handling. Ruin what..... on paper ? Maybe at the limit you can tell, but certainly not in a road going car.
I've driven s13s with a rb25 and a v6tt (from the z32). 6cyls don't 'ruin' anything.
Not sure what version u guys get, but the latest 3800 was only offered here with a 5spd in the last generation camaro. Its a very smooth, reliable daily driver. So what if it doesn't rev to 8000rpm - it still propells that heavy 3400+ pound hull to 15.3sec ETs. Thats enough tq to 'throw' a RA around effortlessly
Yanks like 'em because they respond to modifying -better- than the majority of imports... and with far le$$ thrown at it, for the same performance.
I've owned/modded both buicks and imports, so I'm not *guessing* at this, like most folks here, who have no clue
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide, drift capital
Registered:
May 2004
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Sun, 14 August 2005 00:34
|
|
A mate of mine put a Holden 202 in his 1982 Corona as a replacement to his starfire doink.
All the shit bolts up.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Sun, 14 August 2005 06:43
|
|
| quest wrote on Sun, 14 August 2005 04:13 |
Yanks like 'em because they respond to modifying -better- than the majority of imports... and with far le$$ thrown at it, for the same performance.
|
That's true in the US, but this ain't the US. I've seen people throw lots of money and the Holden V6 (which is not the same as the Buick V6 you're referring to, although it is related) and the results are less than impressive for the money spent. Meanwhile you can get a 1JZ for a couple of grand, and with BPU mods blow the V6 away.
The V6 might make sense if you have a Commodore with the V6 already in it, but outside of that there are better engines available in this part of the world.
|
|
|
Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Sun, 14 August 2005 09:33
|
|
| quest wrote on Sun, 14 August 2005 04:13 |
everybody *says* that when you replace the 4cyl in an s13 with a 6cyl, that you "ruin" the handling. Ruin what..... on paper ? Maybe at the limit you can tell, but certainly not in a road going car.
|
we are comparing a 4 cylinder , steel block, alloy head (18rg) to a all steel engine with nearly twice the capacity
....just something to consider 
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Sun, 14 August 2005 09:49
|
|
| quest wrote on Sun, 14 August 2005 04:13 |
everybody *says* that when you replace the 4cyl in an s13 with a 6cyl, that you "ruin" the handling. Ruin what..... on paper ? Maybe at the limit you can tell, but certainly not in a road going car.
I've driven s13s with a rb25 and a v6tt (from the z32). 6cyls don't 'ruin' anything.
Not sure what version u guys get, but the latest 3800 was only offered here with a 5spd in the last generation camaro. Its a very smooth, reliable daily driver. So what if it doesn't rev to 8000rpm - it still propells that heavy 3400+ pound hull to 15.3sec ETs. Thats enough tq to 'throw' a RA around effortlessly
Yanks like 'em because they respond to modifying -better- than the majority of imports... and with far le$$ thrown at it, for the same performance.
I've owned/modded both buicks and imports, so I'm not *guessing* at this, like most folks here, who have no clue
|
but the 3800 commodore V6 isnt the same, mostly the same, but nobody here gives a shit about them, where-as u have had the buick GNX, which has made ppl mod them
we do have some very quick commodores here, but its the "why" factor really,
|
|
|
Location:
frankston vic
Registered:
August 2005
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Sun, 14 August 2005 11:41
|
|
|
Now someone is thinking outside the square mate that is all nothing wrong with that a guy here in VIC has a fully engineered and registered 289 WINDSOR i think its in a ke20 or 25. People thinking its a better idea to put a 1jz in it should consider dollar for dollar.
|
|
|
Location:
u.s.a. south
Registered:
April 2004
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Sun, 14 August 2005 12:23
|
|
we have those "better" motors stateside also, u know.
Put a 1jz in a mk3 for eg. Dollar for dollar/mod for mod, the turbo buick sedan will sh1t all over it. You better pick again. Now a 2j in a mk2, as you drive.... the picture changes
Is the 1j a 'better' motor ? No question.
On the issue of which version
Got news for you. The 3800 is a BETTER performer than the turbo 3.8 buick GN motor with the same mods! Guess you didn't know that The 3.8 is the first gen of even-fire v6, with siamesed intake ports - even more crude than the 3800, whose design is derived from stageII buick motorsports indy racing program. None of the parts interchange.
On the weight
Is an 18rg to buick v6 any more different than a massive vg30dett (twin cam, twin turbo nissan v6) is to an all alloy sr20 ? hmmmmm
Mr DOHC
u too hit some interesting points.
>>"but nobody here gives a shit about them"
all I'm doing is dropping u a few tips from someone who does. GM is dam cheap, and I don't think they'll vary the casting any, eh. Whether it be na, sc or turbo, I've seen the buicks perform impressively, to the point that I'd never make the kinda remarks that r posted here consistently.
On the "why factor"
Lets say I had a aw11 plaything, had motor swap skills and wanted to go fast for cheap.
I grab a 3800/fwd auto tranny wreck donor for $1k and put in the rear of my aw. With no internals, gm ecu/custom $200 chip tune, I'm well over 200 ft-lbs tq from 2500 - 5200rpm
You can throw pulley$, cam$, $tandalone, porting and hell, a 50shot at a gze/e58 lsd... and tq won't even peak where most of the buick 'averages'.
Drop the hammer, the gze will see tailights, with a gap widening
I could then ask the gze guy, "why?"... doesn't matter tho
Is the 4agze a 'better' motor ? It sure is.
FC owner wants mid 11sec timeslips. What will it cost his 13b ?
Swaps in a $2000 stock 80k mile buick GN drivetrain. With a "crushed" fpr, chipped stock ecu.... motor/tranny/converter/turbo ALL stock.
Runs consistent 11.6s. Only thing the old buick sufers from is tired factory springs that float valves ~5k, robbing you of a 5700 redline - $65 performance springs solves that. Plastic oe timing gear has to go - double roller steel chain assy, a $50 fix.
FC never enjoyed such performance, reliability and economy.
Sure he gives up his revvy, smooth mill and 5spd. Why? After going thru 3 'finicky' rotarys en route to 11s, the mileage, the co$t, etc... Kinda leaves a sour taste in your mouth.
Is the 13b a better motor ? Absolutely
Is a buick v6 a wise choice ? Depends on who u ask
|
|
|
Location:
wollongong
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Sun, 14 August 2005 15:14
|
|
|
very well said mate, very well said...
|
|
|
Location:
WA
Registered:
May 2005
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Sun, 14 August 2005 15:49
|
|
mate, 3.8L commy motors do produce heaps of torque down low.
But, they are big, heavy (iron block some with alloy heads), dont rev, PUSHROD, dinosaurs. Old design, and they rely on capacity to produce numbers. If ur gonna go through the effort to put a large and heavy motor in, why not go a 1UZ? Significantly larger amounts of power, more rev, save petrol, last longer, and u get some refinement in amongst it.
Of course, it all depends on the money u want to spend.
Quest - the VG30 is not a massive motor, i really wonder wether u have ANY idea on the VG30 at all after saying that. . . btw, a SR20 is actually slightly longer than a VG30. Although a VG30 is relatively heavy (but not excessively so), its torquey, and a very strong midrange performer that in stock trim retains petrol efficiency with huge potential. VG30 (like in a z32) give 430hp @ flywheel daily with no problems without even opening the motor in ANY way or changing the turbos.
Unfortunately for us, alot of GM parts which americans can find cheaply are unavaible here. Also, the 3800 in commodores are unrefined, undeveloped and again, HEAVY. This Buick version u speak of would be difficult to source for someone here, and im sure would be a different motor in many respects. A commy 6 is fine if u wanna drive in a straight line, but you cant afford a 10% - 15% weight increase over the front of the car when you want to be able to corner too.
Man, why not go a RB30? Easily sourced, alot of avaialbe parts, and ur still getting a 3L OHC motor. Smaller than a big 6, bigger than a small 6. HEAPS of parts, many turbo conversions done, heaps of potential and has served many a VL turbo into the 400hp+ with bone stock bottom end.
Quest talks of a motor which you definetely wont be able to easily get in australia (though some parts are interchangleable im sure), and ur still looking at a heavy motor with an old design. But, it will have plenty down low. . . .
Ahhh, fuck it, get a 302 or 308 and do it right
|
|
|
Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Mon, 15 August 2005 07:06
|
|
| Quote: |
how u know this? u tried it b4, or are you an inspector. If the latter,....... there's big $$$$$$$ 4 u.. jus jks. Let me know what is required. eehhhhh
|
The second (engineer) and a few friends are RTA accredited. It's just that you'll have to build two or Three car just to prove it is safe ie one for Crash testing, one for ridgity and one to keep.... That's why with heaps of $$$$ anything can be done!
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Mon, 15 August 2005 09:08
|
|
VN V6 manual stock 1/4 mile 15.5. So you can expect it to be a lot of fun in a lighter '28. The earleir motors are not as good as the later 'eco-tech' engines. If your lucky down at your self serve wreckers you can get them for $50 on motor special days. I don't know what other people are saying about parts availability but $50 for a good running bare motor is pretty decent.
Complete engine from self serve wreckers $150
Computer loom etc misc $100
2 X impco 225 gas mixers $80
2 X impco simple convertors $80
2 X T28/25 silvia or whatever turbo's $600
2 pair inlet/exhaust flanges laser cut $60
Misc (oil/water/wiring etc) $40
2 X s4 rx7 top mount coolers(front mounted) $200
Exhaust and plumbing $500
dyno tune $200
...Depening on what u can do yourself..
Trans/Diff optional extra's depending on what u want.
Lets compare apples with apples here, turbo 6's with turbo 6's.
There are a lot of turbo V6's getting around now, I know of a fairly basic setup like that described about in the 11's (in commmo)
It makes me sick to see the ignorance of some (not all!!) of the people on this forum, any car enthusiest if they are really an enthuisest will apreaciate the work and effort that goes into ANY car.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Mon, 15 August 2005 11:51
|
|
yes, very well said "quest"
i didnt realise there was a "3800" and a "3.8"
whats the difference
we only have one type
are the heads off the Vortex 4.3 the same as the GNX or 3800
VeeP, no commodores {cept new alloytec} had alloy heads
u love your LPG turbo's dont ya hemi two fifteen turbo
|
|
|
Location:
Perth W.A
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Sat, 20 August 2005 06:18
|
|
whats this tripe about low end torque? ive driven one and yeah its responsive for the first 2k And then its just flat like your 12yo sister
does that really matter when the engine will only rev to 6grand and make sfa power?
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2005
|
|
Re: Blasphemous Mod
|
Sat, 20 August 2005 07:14
|
|
i eat pre VT commodores in my camry
off topic of course but toyota v6's are underrated.
|
|
|
