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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Timing adjustment for a V6 Camry?
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Fri, 22 April 2005 08:25
 
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Anyone?
What about Jaycar? Do their kits work?
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.vic.au
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Timing adjustment for a V6 Camry?
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Fri, 22 April 2005 10:08
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| Fr3aK wrote on Fri, 22 April 2005 16:50 |
Hey,
Just wondering what's the easiest/ cheapest way to get ignition timing adjustment on a 3VZ-FE V6 is? (i'm thinking along the lines of a A'PEXi ITC, but for a Camry...)
Please don't say "turn the distributor".
Thanks.
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I don't think there is a way of adjusting the timing as it's all done at the distributor... if you had coil packs it's possible... Look at the logic, even my 5M-E can't have it's ignition timing adjusted without messing around with the distributor, don't waste your money...
My mate has a 3VZ-FE and there is nothing wrong with it in stock form.
That is my 2 cents...
Cheers.
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Timing adjustment for a V6 Camry?
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Fri, 22 April 2005 10:24
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Yeah, fair enough,
but i bought (had custom made actually) extractors for it.
Now the air/fuel ratios are off, and the timing needs to be advanced to ignite the charge before it gets scavenged out of the cylinder 
Because the airflow meter is a vane type, could i adjust the spring (tighten it) so it reads less load, and therefore gives more ignition advance?
Would that work?
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.vic.au
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Timing adjustment for a V6 Camry?
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Fri, 22 April 2005 10:29
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I have the same dilema with my 5M-E after having the heads ported 
Is the extractors customised, because it sounds like the O2 sensor is too far from engine and the exhaust fumes is being sucked out and flowing too fast past the sensor for it to read? My mates VN V6 with extractors has the similar problem, we just bought a new O2 sensor and we haven't had much trouble ever sence but that is with the off the shelf extractors.
* Anyone correct me if I am wrong...
Cheers.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.vic.au
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Timing adjustment for a V6 Camry?
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Fri, 22 April 2005 10:48
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| Fr3aK wrote on Fri, 22 April 2005 20:24 |
...
Because the airflow meter is a vane type, could i adjust the spring (tighten it) so it reads less load, and therefore gives more ignition advance?
Would that work?
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Don't adjust the AFM unless you get another to adjust (and keep the orginal as emergency, I nearly shot the mechanic that did mine *only had one and that was in the car) as it's not professional to do it to a stock car as it caused damage to my engine (unknown to me) 
Cheers.
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Timing adjustment for a V6 Camry?
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Fri, 22 April 2005 10:57
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So how did you fix yours then?
BTW, my O2 sensors are about 25cm from the head. I thought it was these too, but yeah, it's the scavenging thingy.
If adjusting the AFM on a stock car isn't a good idea, when is it?
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.vic.au
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Timing adjustment for a V6 Camry?
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Fri, 22 April 2005 11:07
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I had to buy an untouched ECU and AFM from another MA61 which made me cry in the price I had to pay... As for the O2 situation for the MA61, it wasn't meant to have one 
I suppose put a K&N airfilter in the car and see how that goes, have the ECU reset *if there is such a thing* and take it for a very long drive... and see how the fuel ecomomy goes, as the the A/F ratio meter, I took mine out as it was not reading in the 5M-E 
Cheers.
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Timing adjustment for a V6 Camry?
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Sat, 23 April 2005 01:23
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OK, thanks for chatting dude. I appreciate it.
Does anyone know of any cheap, UNIVERSAL, interceptor style, ignition timing modules? Similar to the A'PEXi ITC, but UNIVERSAL?
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Timing adjustment for a V6 Camry?
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Sat, 23 April 2005 06:41
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| Fr3aK wrote on Sat, 23 April 2005 11:23 |
Similar to the A'PEXi ITC, but UNIVERSAL?
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You'd be hard pressed to find a universal ignition interceptor, most fuel systems are similar but there are many ways in which factory cars control spark
Jaycar might work, but you wont have any factory control at all
Either deal with it, advance ur timing or spend some real money
a MegaSquirtNSpark setup might run ur whole motor if you do some research, depending on how the v6 works
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Sat, 23 April 2005 06:52
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oh if its got DIS MSD do a DIS interceptor... just a thought
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Timing adjustment for a V6 Camry?
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Sat, 23 April 2005 07:21
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| Fr3aK wrote on Fri, 22 April 2005 20:24 |
Now the air/fuel ratios are off, and the timing needs to be advanced to ignite the charge before it gets scavenged out of the cylinder
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how does that work?
scavenging occurs at the end of the exhaust stroke and at the start of the intake stroke. scavenging should have finished well before the mixture is being ignited, otherwise your cam timing is wayyy off. 
surely you just need to get the mixture tuned back to where it was, and the timing will still be at a fairly ideal place?
or do you mean that with the extra scavenging, some fresh charge is getting into the exhaust, and the O2 sensor is reading lean (excess oxygen in the unburnt mixture)? but what dopes that have to do with ignition timing?
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Sat, 23 April 2005 11:02
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Sorry, that was my interpretation of what Jason said at Dyno Tuning and Mechanical Repairs, Moorebank. (98224242)
I've obviously screwed up the way he told me the story.
Anyway, his recommendation was too advance the timing where the A/F ratios drop off. Apparently that'd fix it.
I'm all ears on solutions to fix this.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Sat, 23 April 2005 23:28
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ewww something VERY wrong there did you dyno it before you fitted the extractors?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Sun, 24 April 2005 00:23
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was his a/f metre broken?
at 10.1 you should be blowing lovely clouds of black smoke!
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Sun, 24 April 2005 00:40
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| Allan wrote on Sun, 24 April 2005 09:28 |
ewww something VERY wrong there did you dyno it before you fitted the extractors?
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Yep.
It definently went better stock! 
It needs some tuning...
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Mon, 25 April 2005 05:29
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| Fr3aK wrote on Sun, 24 April 2005 17:27 |
So has anyone come up with any ideas how to fix this?
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^^^ What he said.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Mon, 25 April 2005 06:33
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Have you checked for any error codes? I only skimmed over the thread so sorry if this has been asked.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Mon, 25 April 2005 07:46
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the Greddy Emange is not too bad a piece of machinery. Matched up with the data cable and PC tuning software it can be pretty powerful for fixing up the tuning of factory management in a case like yours where modifications have meddled with things in a bad way.
Basic features:
- adjust fuel mixture by "tweaking" the engine load signal to the ecu
- adjust ignition timing (advance or retard) some large amount
- adjust for bigger injectors (not needed in your case)
bah there are heaps more... for best info use google
And they are pretty "universal", in that they are known compatible with a number of Toyota engines.
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Mon, 25 April 2005 10:29
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Anything cheaper? I've rang a couple stores, and they seem too over priced.
I'm only looking to spend ~$300.
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Tue, 26 April 2005 14:29
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My mate has the same setup for his car (which is also the same model, but he has a Unichip ECU), and he's getting it dynoed on Thursday.
I'll post the results, and what the tuner changed too. Hopefully he'll get a good result, and really determine how effective the addition of extractors are.
Then i guess i'll have to chase up a similar solution to match...
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Tue, 26 April 2005 15:28
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and that happend from JUST fitting extractors???
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Wed, 27 April 2005 01:25
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 27 April 2005 01:28 |
and that happend from JUST fitting extractors???
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Yep. Insane.
I put it down to the factory ones being so shit, and the replacement one being a million times better.
Wasn't such a good idea for me tho, as i do't have any tunability to fix it... 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Wed, 27 April 2005 01:53
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id say someone may of damaged your O2 sensor wire/O2 sensor itself, i dont see how its possable for extractors todo that, put your stock manifold back on see if that fixes it
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Wed, 27 April 2005 02:53
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 27 April 2005 11:53 |
put your stock manifold back on see if that fixes it
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Arhh... no.
No-one who's ever worked on a 3VZ-FE would EVER recommend that. It's an absolute cunt-of-a-job and there's no way in hell i'm doing it again.
PS, the O2 sensors are fine. 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Wed, 27 April 2005 09:08
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I'm with Allan dude.
That dyno you have there isn't worth pissing on.
The results before and after, and especially the AFR's are shit.
Go get another dyno done.
And any improvements in power your friend gets, will mainly be the result of the unichip retune.
Standard ecu + stardard headers = standard power
Standard ecu + extractors = standard power + a little bit
remapped ecu + extractors = a decent increase (still nothing phenomenal)
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Wed, 27 April 2005 09:30
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Can you please justify those comments please?
Otherwise, your comments aren't worth pissing on, and are therefore: shit.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Wed, 27 April 2005 09:31
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Which comments exactly?
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Wed, 27 April 2005 09:46
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| CrUZsida wrote on Wed, 27 April 2005 19:08 |
That dyno you have there isn't worth pissing on.
The results before and after, and especially the AFR's are shit.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Wed, 27 April 2005 09:52
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Have a look at the two dyno's you have.
The first one (pre extractors), is from 60, to 180kph.
AFR's range from 13 down to 11.
Now look at the 2nd one (with extractors). Its from 60 to 120.
You gained almost 30kW from 120 to 160 in the first dyno, and you are up 15kW @ 120kph on the 2nd dyno, yet the guy stopped.
Why?
Now look at the AFR's on the 2nd one.
Its starts around 14.4, and then suddenly drops 10.4??
Was one injector lagging? Did he suddenly go, 'Oh shit, I'm supposed to be working'
No, I say the operator fucked up.
Go and get another dyno done.
Either claim the guy who did the 2nd one fucked up (Dyno Tuning and Mechanical Repairs), and try and get it for free.
Or go someplace completely different.
The 2nd one was also not done in Shootout Mode like it should have been.
Justified enough?
EDIT: By all this I mean the first dyno is legit.
The 2nd one you are comparing is crap.
[Updated on: Wed, 27 April 2005 09:53]
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Wed, 27 April 2005 10:10
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The runs were done in different gears.
Yes, the second run should have been done in the same gear as the first one (3rd as opposed to 4th).
It's hard for me to say "Your dyno's $500 A/F meter is wrong, and my car is fine! Give me a free run". What do you think the answer would be?
Yes i should have had both runs done at the same place, but as far as i'm concerned, the problem is on paper, and lies within my car.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
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Wed, 27 April 2005 10:36
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Even though runs were done in different gears the power output should be the same (or increase in your case).
To lose 15kW at the wheels and to gain none overall is frankly downright impossible, unless the exhaust place stuffed up.
Also that 2nd dyno runs AFR's are VERY questionable.
I'd say its back to the operator.
Toyota ECU's don't just do that overnight.
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Ignition timing adjustment - Interceptor a good idea?
