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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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anzac day
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Sun, 24 April 2005 05:37
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out of curiosity id like to know what this day actually means to fellow toymoders
to me it represents this country
it represents my grandfather serving and giving his lif fighting for freedom
to me it represents pride and overcoming any obstacle regardless how unsurmountable the odds
id also like to know what people feel making it mandatory for all school children take part in dawn service regardless of race belief etc
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: anzac day
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Sun, 24 April 2005 05:45
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to me it represents a fight for freedom against the odds, by people who didn't completely understand what that would entail, or what it meant. It also represents Australia's entry into international politics in a big way.
Mandatory? Hell no. Everyone has the right to say they think australia was fighting for te wrong side and the anzacs were the enemy. (they'd be stupid and wrong, but they are entitled to their stupid and wrong viewpoint) - free speech and all that. I don;t know about other schools, but the one I went to put a quite reasonable emphasis on the whole event.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: anzac day
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Sun, 24 April 2005 05:56
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true
they are entitled to have an opinion yet to me it is also a chance to remember the enemy who fought in their countries best interests regardless if the reasoning is flawed
its a personal and community sacrafice and i feel this should be respected by all sides with only one exception, those who partake in crimes against humanity ie pilage rape murder of innocents torture etc
of course there is atoning for your past and appologising to start off with
soemthing several political figures are yet to comprehend
i just feel that the kids get the day off they swhould show soem respect for why they have the day off and give a few hours of their morning
maybe then with a greater appreciation and education the melting pot will be less judgemental
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Location:
newcastle nsw
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: anzac day
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Sun, 24 April 2005 06:16
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well to me anzac day mean's that we are a free nation and we are still free because of all the men and women who gave their lives to keep our country safe, even tho the war was fought in another country, and we didn't really know why we were fighting we were told we were at war and so we went. but stupid politics and incompetent officers and their tactic's made the war very messy.
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Location:
Pilbara
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: anzac day
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Wed, 27 April 2005 07:50
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Always get a little bit sad for the old diggers. War is scary shit. I get a bit tense when the media and politicians tend to flog it out of shape and distort things in a glorifying way. Just in case anybody thinks I'm anti I'll just let you know that I have got Anzacs on both sides of my family. In fact, my old man's family were exclusively professional soldiers up until the last generation. War and killing sucks arse.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: anzac day
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Wed, 27 April 2005 15:04
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to me its another public holiday away from work  .
oh and also i might remember the dudes that were fighting for australia. but on this special day i like to have a nice cold beer 
thanks
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: anzac day
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Wed, 27 April 2005 15:41
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What a bout the mess the crowd made at Lone pine? Absolute disgrace. Drunks sleepng on Graves? Rock music? 
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Wollongong, NSW
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: anzac day
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Thu, 28 April 2005 02:18
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To me, ANZAC day is just rembering the efforts and sacrifice that our citizens took in order to defend the way of life we enjoy today.
Then enjoying a few drinks with the diggers after the dawn service
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: anzac day
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Thu, 28 April 2005 02:46
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ANZAC day is one of the most important days in our calendar.
I appreciate to no end the freedom I enjoy that they died for. 6% of the entire population of Australia was enlisted in WWI. And to see the awesome freedom that people died for being treated with contempt by so many is sad!
This country was born of sacrifice at almost every stage. So often it's taken for granted, and then abused by those not willing to participate in building back into country. So many are along for the ride, ignoring the hard work it took to get where we are.
Sure nationhood is an antiquted notion in a world of postmodern global disparate communities, but I believe it is valuable and important for an operating culture and understanding on the local level. Those diggers died for this nation, they deserve total admiration, respect and gratitute.
my 0.02c
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: anzac day
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Thu, 28 April 2005 02:53
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ANZAC day for me is a day where i get to ponder things like:
do people really believe in this freedom bullshit?
do people ever think for themselves instead of eating up all of the media spin?
do people ever consider why there was a war and what it was about? (heres a hint, its not freedom)
do people realise, while all patriotic, teary eyed and thinking about freedom, that WE INVADED THEM?
stop the brainwashing and start thinking! how can you believe in freedom if you dont even understand the concept of it?
but who fuckin cares anyways! im off to go partying in gallipoli! the ANZAC day pilgrimage is the new cool thing to do, i get to hang out will all the other people who believe in freedom and feel sorry for the diggers, hey u know what maybe i can pull a root while im there!
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: anzac day
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Thu, 28 April 2005 02:57
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| rob_RA40 wrote on Thu, 28 April 2005 12:53 |
ANZAC day for me is a day where i get to ponder things like:
do people really believe in this freedom bullshit?
do people ever think for themselves instead of eating up all of the media spin?
do people ever consider why there was a war and what it was about? (heres a hint, its not freedom)
do people realise, while all patriotic, teary eyed and thinking about freedom, that WE INVADED THEM?
stop the brainwashing and start thinking! how can you believe in freedom if you dont even understand the concept of it?
but who fuckin cares anyways! im off to go partying in gallipoli! the ANZAC day pilgrimage is the new cool thing to do, i get to hang out will all the other people who believe in freedom and feel sorry for the diggers, hey u know what maybe i can pull a root while im there!
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heehee u way 2 predictable these days!  
Personally, I KNOW you wish you were a Japanese Nazi likely to be executed for as much as sneezing in the wrong direction, but I like the fact that we can even have this conversation
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: anzac day
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Thu, 28 April 2005 03:19
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actually im not making a joke in that post.
i am serious about that post and im serious about promoting individual thought.
i tried to write that post without showing what i feel about the ANZAC day diggers, so as to make my point (individual thought) as clinical as possible.
most people will then assume that just because i dont agree with them, then i must have views opposite to them. Well its not true i am affected just as much as anyone by the plight of people who have fought and suffered in war, any war.
But ill be fucked if im going to spout that propagandus bullshit about freedom if thats what it takes to show that i appreciate what people have endured.
herein lies a percentage of my contempt for the human race.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: anzac day
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Thu, 28 April 2005 03:35
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and I am know you appreciate your ability to voice that opinion as do we all
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: anzac day
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Thu, 28 April 2005 03:53
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| RobST162 wrote on Thu, 28 April 2005 13:35 |
and I am know you appreciate your ability to voice that opinion as do we all
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 ohh ray martin, you've got me there
tell me, how would i not be able to have an opinion if these people didnt fight and die in a war?
dont bother answering that, its rhetorical.
my voicing of my opinion is not a product of your perception of freedom, tho you might think it is.
regardless of the situation this country was in, we could have been invaded and persecuted by eskimos, who knows. My opinion like everyone elses, would still be alive inside of us, and we'd have the choice to voice that opinion as long as we were willing to suffer the consequences.
we must always review our concept of freedom.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: anzac day
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Thu, 28 April 2005 03:58
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Yet depending on the consequences you might not be posting here Mr. Sarcasmo
The world is either in a state of preparing for war or making war that's for sure. (even if it's just forum wars ) The question is, what's it for? Sometimes it's necessary/unavoidable, sometimes it's futile and sad.
Either way, there will be people who decry all form of war, government and the like. I say, deal with it, and be thankful, we have it pretty darn good here.
Love, the "other" rob
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: anzac day
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Thu, 28 April 2005 04:12
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| RobST162 wrote on Thu, 28 April 2005 13:58 |
Love, the "other" rob
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hehe 
mate if our discussion helped just one person think for themselves them our work here is done.
and yeah i did lay it on a little too thick with the ray martin comment, i was worried u may have snookered me, it was exciting tho, having to formulate a reply 
cheers
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: anzac day
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Thu, 28 April 2005 04:23
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hehe yeah it's all good 
as with what you were saying, yeah, freedom is a very slippery and often manipulated word sadly... kinda like other words, such as 'love', 'weapons-of-mass-desruction', 'fundamentalist', 'terrorist' and lots of other "ist" words hehe..
Back on topic anyway, back in WWI I think the ethics of military engagement were a little clearer (though, I wasn't there). Whatever the case I sure appreciate what ANZAC day truly represents at its core.
And I SURE appreciate the majority of what Australia is today. Not perfect, but i would go so far as to say it's above average!
We do have a debt, it's good to honour it.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: anzac day
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Thu, 28 April 2005 09:40
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| rob_RA40 wrote on Thu, 28 April 2005 12:53 |
ANZAC day for me is a day where i get to ponder things like:
do people really believe in this freedom bullshit?
do people ever think for themselves instead of eating up all of the media spin?
do people ever consider why there was a war and what it was about? (heres a hint, its not freedom)
do people realise, while all patriotic, teary eyed and thinking about freedom, that WE INVADED THEM?
stop the brainwashing and start thinking! how can you believe in freedom if you dont even understand the concept of it?
but who fuckin cares anyways! im off to go partying in gallipoli! the ANZAC day pilgrimage is the new cool thing to do, i get to hang out will all the other people who believe in freedom and feel sorry for the diggers, hey u know what maybe i can pull a root while im there!
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1. Yes I believe in the concept of freedom. However true freedom only lies in freedom of thought. even freedom of action is an illusion...but if we get down to this level of specifics it starts to sound like the marovingian out of the Matrix 'there is no freedom, just cause and effect' Unfortunately I find that question quite generalist and argumentative while not being specific in any way related to this topic.
2. I would dare say that as many people have independent opinions of ANZAC day as those who 'eat up the media spin' But, what media spin are you referring to? The glorifying of Australian youth that gave their lives for the service of their country? Whether you drill down into the real causes of the war or not the simple fact is that these people paid the ultimate price for an ideal that they believed in. (unfortunately I was not alive at the time so I cannot speak on behalf of the propaganda fuelling this belief) but it was a belief nonetheless. Noone can say that if Australia did not enter the war and make a pre emptive strike against a country fighting our allies we may not have been invaded ourselves. I dont think anyone who has not lived in that era can truly say with conviction what the political climate was at the time, or speak on Australias strategic value back then, but we must atleast acknowledge the possibility that Australia was a target, and we needed to attack first.
3. I would be the first one to agree that the true causes for war are not what is printed on newspapers or put on the radio. But the simple fact is that regardless of the true cause, enemy troops that are motivated by that cause are out to kill you, and apparently, your way of life so in that way it is a fight for freedom. What people must understand that curtailing of personal liberties through oppression is a very real thing. If it was truly impossible how do you explain prisons?
4. All I can say is that yes in physical terms it was an invasion of their borders, but an invasion infers attempting to take over the country without just cause in order to permanently occupy their country. Again I dont know the strategic value of Turkey, or gallipoli (maybe it was a vital supply route for our allies) but an attack needed to be made on their soil to weaken our enemy. In warfare you would be a fool not to invade your enemy to break their back and hence stand a better chance of winning, but one fact is that australia had no intention of staying in turkey once the war was over. Many other 'invading' cultures (mostly english ill admit) tend to linger and setup shop in their country, but Australia would have, and did leave once the war was over...
5. everyone understands the 'ideal' concept of freedom, and this long winded response was in no means an attempt to say that we all practice it or uphold it, but i think more creedence is owed fighting men and women who died for what they believe. Also it shows the world community that Australia, although young, wont back away from a fight, and we fight to the last man.
Lest We Forget.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: anzac day
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Thu, 12 May 2005 17:37
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I Agree with the rest of your post SilverGhost, but the problem lies here in. At the moment Australia has committed its people to kill and die for an american crusade. The goverment through the media are pumping the bullshit to the people. And at the core of this, we have people who are to foolish to discern. Its one thing to fight to the last man, but in this case - Australia has her hands dipped in innocent blood.
Lest we forget the 15,000 in which we have had a hand in killing.
Patriotism serves as a cover for one-sided class warfare. Novelist Samuel Johnson hit the nail on the head when he wrote, "Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels."
| SilverGhost wrote on Thu, 28 April 2005 17:40 |
5. everyone understands the 'ideal' concept of freedom, and this long winded response was in no means an attempt to say that we all practice it or uphold it, but i think more creedence is owed fighting men and women who died for what they believe. Also it shows the world community that Australia, although young, wont back away from a fight, and we fight to the last man.
Lest We Forget.
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Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: anzac day
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Fri, 13 May 2005 13:12
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" Novelist Samuel Johnson hit the nail on the head when he wrote, "Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels."
If you honestly beleive that statement, then I have no time for you or anyone with the same belief.
Go and learn about Australia's History, inparticular the AIF in relation to the Boar War, WW1, WW2 and the British Empire's envlovement in Asiapacific.
Then you might have a heart worth beating!
Ben
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