| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2003
|
|
Corolla swaybar? y/n
|
Thu, 28 April 2005 09:02
|
 |
i'm going to be gettinig my suspension upgraded shortly from the stock susp. i'm looking into springs and shocks along with all new bushes from noltec.
the only thing that i am stuck on is swaybars. the guys at noltec said that it wouldn't really be neccessary to upgrade the swaybar once the new bushes go in as they'll provide a decent gain from the stock ones. however when my mate was talking to a guy from kmac he said that it would be the one best handling upgrade that i could get for the corolla.
any opinions from people here who know a bit more? i'm not too fussed about the extra money for a swaybar.
basically what i'll be using the car for is twisty rds (old pac etc) and also i'll be taking it out to wakefield etc for track days. along with just driving 15 mins to and from work every day.
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Corolla swaybar? y/n
|
Thu, 28 April 2005 09:57
|
|
My mates AE92 had no stock sways, and upgrading to whiteline items improved the car BIGTIME! However if you already have them, it may not be needed?
Maybe see how the bushes go.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, Sth side
Registered:
January 2005
|
|
Re: Corolla swaybar? y/n
|
Thu, 28 April 2005 09:59
|
|
|
from what i know, a fat rear sway bar can improve turn in quite a lot.
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: Corolla swaybar? y/n
|
Thu, 28 April 2005 10:07
|
|
a swaybar will affect the handling the way you think it will. if you need to rectify a problem, then a swaybar may help that. if no problem, swaybar fixes nothing.
bigger rear swaybar = oversteer
bigger front swaybar = understeer
(or did i fuxor them around?)
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2003
|
|
Re: Corolla swaybar? y/n
|
Thu, 28 April 2005 10:40
|
|
mmm, i should probably add that i already have a camber kit on the front wheels and that has improved the turn in a lot compared to the stock settings.
basically i've found that entering a corner with speed sometimes the car has no understeer and goes straight to oversteer although when still giving it a lil bit around corners i'm getting decent understeer. i'm thinking that new shocks alone should fix this problem since the ones in there are very worn.
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2004
|
|
Re: Corolla swaybar? y/n
|
Thu, 28 April 2005 22:28
|
|
I have an SX AE93 with a silvertop 20v fitted. Apart from ensuring shocks and bushes, etc. are all ok, the only suspension upgrade is that I have fitted the whiteline 20mm adjustable rear bar as it is a daily driver and needs to be driven on Sydney's often very poor roads.
It did make a huge difference. I have it set on the least stiff setting and to be honest, although I am very happy with it, it is probably still a bit too stiff as it it very close to an oversteerer now. I have standard springs and standard front 14mm (I think) bar and feel I may have been better off getting the 18mm non adjustable rear bar (slightly less oversteerer).
Over/understeer is a quite often misunderstood concept. Lots of people think they need to make their car an oversteerer for it to be better but in fact, this is not really the case. If a car is understeering, the front tyres are loosing their cornering abilities more than the rear tyres and visa versa for oversteer. In the case of understeer, this can occur when the front tyres are using some of their grip for forward or backward traction (ie, braking or driving) or when their total grip(left and right tyres combined) is reduced as they resist the car body wanting to roll. This is why a larger front bar (hence front tyres resists roll more than the rears) gives more understeer and visa versa and why getting on the power with a rear drive car can cause oversteer. If both the front and rear tyres reach their limit in cornering at the same time, you have a neutral steer car (and max cornering ability) but any change in braking or drive will change it to under or oversteer depending whether this effects the front or rear more than the other.
All production (and almost all racecars) are actually setup for steady-state understeer. The test for this is done by car companies in two ways. One way is to drive with very little acceleration around a fixed radius (on a skidpan) and gently increase speed while recording steering wheel angle. If you have to increase the steering wheel angle as speed increases, the car is understeering and oversteering if you need to wind off lock. The key is to increase speed slowly and maintain a constant radius while doing this test. If you have a large roundabout that isn't used much, you can do this test yourself. You don't need to get anyway near the limit as the results should be evident way before you're lifting inside wheels or making large corrections. The other test is similar in that you are recording the steering wheel angle as you drive around the same radius corner at various constant speeds (say 30, 40, 50, 60, etc) but is harder to do unless you have a constant radius line on a road somewhere as its hard to maintain the same radius each time without it and hard to remember exactly what steering wheel angle you had on each run without data acquisition gear.
So much for the theory. Replacing all the bushes will controll the suspension geometry better. The car will "feel" sportier the stiffer it is in roll (and less roll can be a good thing as it reduces camber change that occurs with roll). Putting a stiffer rear bar on will give you this feel and bring the car closer to neutral (where the cornering limit of both the front and rear tyres are similar and max cornering ability is reached). If you are getting stiffer springs as well (either same ride hight or lowered - hence normally stiffer), you will change the roll stiffness as well as the springs contribute to roll stiffness. The amount they contribute depends on the suspension geometry.
My advice is to fit a rear sway bar (18mm for and AE92/3) as it is a very cost effective suspension upgrade with noticeable results (this is assuming the rest of the suspension - especially your shocks - is not worn out).
Toby
|
|
|
Location:
MELBOURNE
Registered:
December 2004
|
|
Re: Corolla swaybar? y/n
|
Fri, 29 April 2005 11:11
|
|
Is all this info for RWD or FWD cars? If the dude has a FWD car all that info changes right?
Thanks
Troy
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2004
|
|
Re: Corolla swaybar? y/n
|
Sun, 01 May 2005 21:40
|
|
|
Nope. Same principles appply for front or rear wheel drive. The only difference is that you loose front cornering ability as you get on the power with FWD and rear cornering ability with RWD.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Toymods Club Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Corolla swaybar? y/n
|
Sun, 01 May 2005 22:51
|
|
| boofis wrote on Fri, 29 April 2005 21:11 |
Is all this info for RWD or FWD cars? If the dude has a FWD car all that info changes right?
Thanks
Troy
|
They're talking about the same model car, so I'd say everything is relevant 
Mike, I still say go at least the rear fixed swaybar from Whiteline. I ditched the original one from mine and couldn't be happier. It's quite a bit cheaper from memory than the adjustable, and the rear end feels VERY nice through turns. Hit me up for a spin next time if you like and I'll show you what it's like.
|
|
|
