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Location:
MACKAY
Registered:
May 2002
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TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Fri, 31 May 2002 11:56
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Just an update for those interested in rear wheel drive 3SGTE'S.
I did another dyno run in my TA22 last week ,My first run a few weeks ago I ran 17PSI and got 200KW this time I run 23PSI and pumped out 237KW or about 320HP at the wheels ( not to bad for a stock rebuilt ST165 motor ) I remember a post a fair while back someone said that you could not get a stock 3SGTE to produce 300HP ? Well with 320HP at the wheels , that could be getting up around 400HP at the flywheel !!
I have not had a chance to give it a go down the strip yet but will let you's know how I go when I do .
TREVOR
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Sat, 01 June 2002 09:34
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sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!
is that with the factory turbo??
Phil
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Location:
MACKAY
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Sat, 01 June 2002 09:56
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Thats with the CT26 off a ST165 Group A which has a larger comp wheel than the standard CT26 .
Trevor
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Sun, 02 June 2002 08:41
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Hrm....
I dynoed my corolla today.....3SGTE made 150KW @ Front Wheels @ 1 Bar boost. ST185 motor with 3" exhaust, pod filter, Front mounted GT4 cooler, no air con and p/s, running 100RON jap ecu. Kinda find it hard to believe that your motor made that much power on the dyno. Especially with standard injectors, me thinks the dyno is lying to u. I ahve a graph to prove these numbers if u like? Not calling you a liar, just saying you've been misinformed.
Michael.
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Sun, 02 June 2002 08:46
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Mikey, I was talking to Trevor this arvo.
He may have one set of standard injectors.
But THERE ARE MORE !!
I dont think you realise he is running staged methanol injection through another set of injectors( up to 50%) and 23 psi of boost !!
Trevors claims sound perfectly reasonable when the full specs are considered .
Matt
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Sun, 02 June 2002 08:52
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Toyo,
If thats the case then might make more sense. But I was going off the assumption it was running fuel only and not meth injection.
That puts it in a different league.
Michael.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Sun, 02 June 2002 09:52
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Hey Mike,thats impressive figure of 150kw at the wheels.Congrats  237kw is absolutly ground breaking,methenol or not.The most I know of anyone putting out with an uprated CT26 is about 360hp at the flywheel and thats a 3sgte with the works and you have way surpassed that mark.Its a huge achivement and you should be very happy.Could you post your dyno graph as I would love to show a lot of MR2 non belivers.
Thanks
Anhar Khamas
GT4 Group A
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Location:
MACKAY
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Mon, 03 June 2002 12:15
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I will post a Dyno Graph as soon as I get my scanner working .
Ok as to not misslead anyone else , My motor is a ST165 which I rebuilt myself , it is all stock internals with gapless rings ( total seal full race set)standard bearings , standard headgasket , I reconditioned the head and cleaned up the ports and chambers a little also port matched the intake and exhaust manifolds , cams are stock , plenum is made from 3" thickwall aluminium tube with about 90mm runners , I needed to make this as to fit in the TA22 , I made the exhaust manifold out of 1 1/4" steam pipe and have a 3" dump down to a 2 1/2" mandral bent exhaust system , Air cleaner is 3" pod sealed up in front of L/H wheel with cold air pickup , Air to Air intercooler from ST185 ,
I fitted another set of ST165 injectors under the manifold close to the ports as to squirt straight on to the valve heads , These injectors are conected to a seperate fuel system ( Metanol ) which I stage in after about 10 PSI boost which increases the octane level allowing me to increase ignition timing far more than using fuel alone ( 39 degrees advance at 5000 RPM on 23 PSI Boost ) The Methanol squirting directly into the port also helps keep the combustion chambers cooler , Engine Management is HALTECH E6S . Any one need any more info please ask .
Trevor.
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Tue, 04 June 2002 11:21
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Trevor,
Concrates on a Great Package mate. Pity your so far away as I would love to see it in action. I almost went the 3SGE conversion into my TA22 when I started the new engine build but I settled on a 2TG for ease of install. me thinks I should have maybe considered it a bit more.
Can't wait to see how you go down the qtr Mile !
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Wed, 05 June 2002 04:01
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a 3s-gte with the works can put out 660HP at the flywheel ...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Wed, 05 June 2002 04:19
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I think you will find its even higher than that. Top Secrets GT300 Supra has 720ps which is roughly 715hp.
Mucho grande lag though....but you have to expect it when you put a T88-34D on a 2.2l engine! 
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Location:
MACKAY
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Sat, 08 June 2002 11:59
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OK I'v now got the dyno graph on my computer , How do I post it on here !!
Trevor
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Sat, 08 June 2002 12:33
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What kind of file is it? If its just a picture file, send it to me and i'll post it!
ipirate@iprimus.com.au
Shane
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Sat, 08 June 2002 22:54
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WOOO HOOOO...........
Thats some torque for a 4 banger!
Cheers
Wilbo
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Sun, 09 June 2002 01:05
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Was that done in 2nd gear ??
topping out at 112 k's would indicate so.
I thought dyno runs should be done in as close to possible a 1:1 gear. Usually 4th ,to avoid torque multiplication in the dyno's calculations.
not sure, just a query
Matt
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Sun, 09 June 2002 02:37
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that was my impression too ....
all cars should run in their highest gear (or in the case of 6 or 7 speeds, in 5th gear usually)
otherwise the readins dont mean too much?
just what I've heard thru the grapevine, I've got no idea at all myself, and would like to know
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Sun, 09 June 2002 12:34
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I dont fully understand the whole reduction gear theory, even if we all could run in 4th gear (1:1), we've got different diff ratios anyway, so theres always a variable.
can anyone shed some light on this??
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Location:
Western Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Sun, 09 June 2002 12:49
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If everybody runs in 4th gear, you remove one variable.
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Location:
MACKAY
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Sun, 09 June 2002 14:05
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That run was done in 3rd gear , the 72 KPH point is about 3600 RPM and the 112 KPH is at about 6500 RPM , Diff is original ratio of 4.11 : 1 ,and yes it is true the torque figures are differant in every gear . The next time I give it a run I will use 4th gear and compare.
Trevor
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Mon, 10 June 2002 01:35
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Using a reduction gear is like using a lever to lift a heavy object. There is some mechanical advantage which is proportional to the amount the gearing is reduced. ie. 1st gear gives huge torque figures compared to 2nd and third respectively. That is why we dont all take off in 5th gear, the torque is not there.
4th gear in most cars is as close to 1:1 as possible, which gives the most accurate absolute result.
Don't forget HP figures are merely a straight calculation from the torque recorded by the dyno, a multiplication of torque over the real figure will result in inflated hp figures.
Lastly , this is all only relevant if you use the dyno as a bragging tool or development tool. Trevor has over the course of the development of his car, dyno tested the car in the same gear and conditions each time so any gain by each mod is accurately reflected by the dyno.
I'm not bagging Trevor, I just find the science of Dyno results to be interesting, widely misunderstood, and generally misleading.
How many zoom articles have you read, where the 12 second tidy street car, makes 400 rwkw, but the supplied dyno chart only goes from 40 - 110 km/h.
A detail often over looked when we try to compare our own cars (maybe not 400rwkw !) to some of these mildly modded imports etc, that make power figures we cant go near with the same mods !!
my 2c
Matt
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22-3SGTE DYNO UPDATE
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Mon, 10 June 2002 04:07
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Wow! Those are some shit hot numbers no matter what gear it's in.
I am impressed also that it was a Dyno Dynamics machine, whenever I see big numbers it always seems to be a Dynojet machine (they are always waaaay optimistic).
As for the gear thingy. Sure it does make a bit of a difference which gear you're in but 3rd to 4th isn't a big difference anyway, and it definatly gives us a good ballpark idea. As you all know HP = Torque x revs so sure a lower gear gives you more torque but at the expense of revs. That is why we use HP as a yardstick and not torque (you can get as much torque as you want, just ask Archimedes....lever long enough, place to stand etc.) So in theory it shouldn't make any difference, but it does. I think it's more because of the efficiency of the gears than the torque multiplication effect, as someone pointed out even if you use a 1:1 fourth you still have a 4:1 diff then who knows what wheel radius. Gear efficiency vary a bit depending on the angle the teeth are meshing at, loads on bearings etc. I think these may be more of a factor than the ratio itself (though these may be some of the side effects of the ratio).
Another interesting point in the HP/Torque thing is that it is possible to have huge torque and ZERO HP. DC Electric motors do this when they're stalled, they actually produce maximum torque at 0 RPM (they are switched on but loaded up until they can't rotate anymore, they will burn out if this is sustained).
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