| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Canberra ACT
Registered:
November 2002
|
 Shudder in GT4
|
Wed, 04 May 2005 03:29
|
 |
Hi Guys,
I've noticed that when my GT4 is cold, I get a bit of a 'shudder' when I am accelerating. Doesn't seem to be a 'miss' but instead just sort of shudders as I'm accelerating (hard to explain).
When it has warmed up, it doesn't do it. Only seems to be an issue when it's cold.
Any ideas? Is it fairly normal or could it be a symptom of my leaking turbo manifold?  Or is it likely to be dodgy fuel?
Thanks for your help.
|
|
|
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
December 2004
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Wed, 04 May 2005 03:38
|
|
my car does all sort of shit when its cold shudders, bogs down etc. etc.
since its carby, and yours is efi...
tune?
Eldar.O.
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Wed, 04 May 2005 04:07
|
|
it depends greatly on how hard you are pushing a cold motor. even fairly new motors can bog down or act a bit loopy when cold because all the internal tolerances of the motor are larger when its cold.
This is cause the motor has not had a chance to heat up and expand.
Rule 1. let your car warm up a bit first before taking off
Rule 2. If you need to take off straight away dont push it...
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra ACT
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Wed, 04 May 2005 06:07
|
|
| zasa wrote on Wed, 04 May 2005 14:16 |
Both of mine do the same thing, but once warm all is good. Just let it warm up a little on a cold start, and when you take off dont push it until the engine warms up (i.e needle isnt on "C").
EDIT: I see your the guy that bought Brendans little beast. Congrats champ! you picked up an awesome car  Got any plans for it?
|
Yeah thanks mate. Regarding plans for it - getting the f*ing thing to pass rego would be a good start ! 
Re: the shudder. I never drive the car hard or rev it right out when the engine is cold, I wait until it is well over the 'C'. Problem is that the shudder happens even at low revs and accelerating lightly. 
Good to hear that it is not just me though!
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Wed, 04 May 2005 06:12
|
|
What problems you having with rego?
I wouldnt worry about the shudder if it's only happening when cold.
It happens even on low revs on both cars for me also, although it's alot nastier on the non-grp a - however it takes less time to warm up than the white one (that car is an oven)
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Wed, 04 May 2005 06:13
|
|
What sort of AFM (assuming they are AFM) do the GT4's use? The vane/flap type or the hot wire type??
Let me know before I blurt out something that may be completely wrong.
|
|
|
Location:
Bulleen, Melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Wed, 04 May 2005 08:03
|
|
Matty P: I think the shuddering is a 'feature' of the GT4's Mine does it pretty badly, and most others do I believe. Just take a look on celicatech and see how many times the topic has been raised.
btw, congrats on buying such a great car, we need to keep the GRP A's alive Just get used to getting your hands dirty....or emptying your wallet 
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra ACT
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Wed, 04 May 2005 10:01
|
|
| zasa wrote on Wed, 04 May 2005 16:12 |
What problems you having with rego?
|
Don't get me started
I might save that one for a ACT Registration System rant!
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra ACT
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Wed, 04 May 2005 10:03
|
|
| tooch wrote on Wed, 04 May 2005 18:03 |
btw, congrats on buying such a great car, we need to keep the GRP A's alive Just get used to getting your hands dirty....or emptying your wallet
|
Yeah - I'm beginning to realise that! I read a lot about it before I bought the car so no great surprise I suppose.
|
|
|
I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Wed, 04 May 2005 11:53
|
|
Yep mine bogs until its warmed up properly.
Turbo VSV limits boost whilst the engines cold too.
If you want to see if its a problem with the engine or just the ecu trying to protect the engine do the constant temp mod and give the car a moderate bootfull before the engine gets to proper operating temp.
I wouldn't do it from the turn of the key though... give it a minute to warm up to at least half operating temperature. (1/4 on the dial).
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Wed, 04 May 2005 12:41
|
|
|
Yep, i'm inclined to agree with Toobs here - the reduced boost while cold, and it's relation back to the computer, and the current condition on the motor. I'd be interested to know if a "Carbon Clean" would improve the situation - I've seen many cars with minor stutters and shudders have their problem resolved with this being done?
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra ACT
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Thu, 05 May 2005 02:51
|
|
| CLG wrote on Wed, 04 May 2005 22:41 |
Yep, i'm inclined to agree with Toobs here - the reduced boost while cold, and it's relation back to the computer, and the current condition on the motor. I'd be interested to know if a "Carbon Clean" would improve the situation - I've seen many cars with minor stutters and shudders have their problem resolved with this being done?
|
Excuse my ignorance, but what's a Carbon Clean?
Motor has done 137,xxx and has been regularly serviced so should be in good condition. Also the intercooler and exhaust were replaced about 3 years ago. The throttle body was also cleaned at that time.
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Thu, 05 May 2005 03:06
|
|
| Quote: |
What sort of AFM (assuming they are AFM) do the GT4's use? The vane/flap type or the hot wire type??
Let me know before I blurt out something that may be completely wrong.
|
No body answered  but I will throw an idea out there as it may help someone one day.
The exact same problem you are describing is very common in WRX's that are a few years old. The problem is a dirty AFM (a gunk that builds up), a very careful clean (after removal of the AFM) gets them running smooth as silk again. This may or may not be applicable to GT4's, I really don't know? But it's just an idea that solves a problem in other vehicles, only you guys would know if it's relevant or not.
Surely the GT4's didn't do this shuddering when they were new?? People would have been back to Toyota complaining. They are quite a refined vehicle so even though it is obviously a common occurence to have the shuddering I am pretty sure it wouldn't be normal.
| Quote: |
the reduced boost while cold, and it's relation back to the computer
|
Lower boost should not cause any such problem, it makes no sense. The ECU is well and truly advanced enough to sense the lower boost level and supply the appropriate amount of fuel at lower boost and low operating temps (lets not confuse a doughy lack of power with the shuddering first asked about in this thread though).
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra ACT
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Thu, 05 May 2005 05:34
|
|
[quote title=ke382TG wrote on Thu, 05 May 2005 13:06]| Quote: |
No body answered but I will throw an idea out there as it may help someone one day.
|
Sorry about that. I would have, but I didn't know the answer!
| Quote: |
They are quite a refined vehicle so even though it is obviously a common occurence to have the shuddering I am pretty sure it wouldn't be normal.
|
There ain't nothing refined about a Group A GT4, I can assure you! 
| Quote: |
Lower boost should not cause any such problem, it makes no sense. The ECU is well and truly advanced enough to sense the lower boost level and supply the appropriate amount of fuel at lower boost and low operating temps (lets not confuse a doughy lack of power with the shuddering first asked about in this thread though).
|
Agree, the computer should be able to handle a low boost/low temp situation without any problems.
Thanks for the suggestion, you may be onto somthing!
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Thu, 05 May 2005 05:37
|
|
|
Since i've owned my car, it never had this cold start issue. But at the same time, i have the turbo VSV disabled so i couldn't tell you for sure.
|
|
|
Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Fri, 06 May 2005 03:09
|
|
|
My ST165 was v. annoying when it was cold, had very little or inconsistent boost. Further compounded by the problem that the thermo switch was stuffed (hence on cold nights the thing struggled to get up to temperature).
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Fri, 06 May 2005 03:45
|
|
| Matty P wrote on Wed, 04 May 2005 20:01 |
| zasa wrote on Wed, 04 May 2005 16:12 |
What problems you having with rego?
|
Don't get me started
I might save that one for a ACT Registration System rant!
|
Where did you take it to?
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra ACT
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Fri, 06 May 2005 08:34
|
|
| zasa wrote on Fri, 06 May 2005 13:45 |
Where did you take it to?
|
Dickson inspection centre  That was mistake No. 1 !!
Let's just say I will be writing a letter 
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Fri, 06 May 2005 10:45
|
|
Nooooooooooooo!!!!
Never go there!
|
|
|
I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Sun, 08 May 2005 00:58
|
|
I don't think this is a fault at all.
The ECU has control over:
-ignition timing
-boost limit
-fueling etc.
So if Toyota wanted to protect the engine whilst it was cold they could easily program the ECU to retard timing, limit boost and dump more fuel into it.
People who change over to aftermarket management don't seem to experience this problem... it could still be a fault with the AFM as 99% of people who go over to after market management would ditch the AFM in favour of a MAP sensor, however, I don't think it is likely for the AFM to be causing this problem.
|
|
|
Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Shudder in GT4
|
Sun, 08 May 2005 05:25
|
|
|
You would have to also consider that Toyota *may* have chosen to be a little protective of the engine because of warranties and the like - Alot of ppl don't look after their cars all that well, but if toyota can get them to hold together long enough that it's no longer their financial responsibility to replace parts then it's all good, for them - right
|
|
|
