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Location:
Coalstoun Lakes
Registered:
November 2004
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7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Tue, 10 May 2005 04:14
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Hi all, I have a 97 Rolla Seca Conquest with a 7AFE. i have looked into doing a full turbo upgrade a while ago and all that but that was going to cost too much. :S
So I had an idea the other day, could I use the S/C of the 4A-GZE, and run fairly low boost, 3-5psi on stock internals?
Could i steal the mounting hardware from a 4AGZE or would I need to do a custom job?
Ideally I wouldn't mind upping the power from the stock 85kw to 100-130kw which would make a fair difference.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: 7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Tue, 10 May 2005 06:11
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custom mounting would be needed
the drive belt from the crankshaft also might have to be custom made but i wouldnt know..
you would need a aftermarket ecu and maybe bigger injectors to compensate for the extra pressure etc..
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Tue, 10 May 2005 09:48
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3-5psi on stock internals?
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they will handle 7psi as this is what the sportivo(turbo)rolla's had, Standard 7A + i/c + bigger injectors.
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Could i steal the mounting hardware from a 4AGZE or would I need to do a custom job?
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Nope custom jobbie, as you'll find the S/C on the GZE sits where the A/C compressor is and also the Alternator will als be in the way as the GZE has this on the opposite side of the motor(rear near firewall). Another possiblity is remove the top half of the intake manifold and try and fit it here, AKA FF's Daewoo They did a few years back. What ever way $$$ are going to be high.
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Location:
Coalstoun Lakes
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: 7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Tue, 10 May 2005 11:56
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| Johnny wrote on Tue, 10 May 2005 19:48 |
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3-5psi on stock internals?
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they will handle 7psi as this is what the sportivo(turbo)rolla's had, Standard 7A + i/c + bigger injectors.
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7psi sounds even better  and thats with stock internals? Any idea how much power 7psi would yield. This sounds exciting
Would I need a full aftermarket ECU? or could I just get a fuel computer? Bigger injectors, would i need a bigger fuel pump too? Is that all I'd need?
| Johnny wrote on Tue, 10 May 2005 19:48 |
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Could i steal the mounting hardware from a 4AGZE or would I need to do a custom job?
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Nope custom jobbie, as you'll find the S/C on the GZE sits where the A/C compressor is and also the Alternator will als be in the way as the GZE has this on the opposite side of the motor(rear near firewall). Another possiblity is remove the top half of the intake manifold and try and fit it here, AKA FF's Daewoo They did a few years back. What ever way $$$ are going to be high.
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Ah ok, I'll have to talk to mate at http://www.raptorsc.com.au about the mounting, he might be able to do something up for me
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Location:
Coalstoun Lakes
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: 7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Tue, 10 May 2005 12:47
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I was reading http://www.toymods.org.au/4A-GZE_Tech.html and I found out that the 4AGZE s/c uses an electronic clutch to enagage and disengage the S/C. How would I do this on my 7AFE as i read the S/C will die prematurely if its ran constantly?
It also has a Air Bypass Valve so I guess I'd still need this. Do 2nd hand 4AGZE s/c normally come with this?
Also I read without an intercooler they can run hot. I have access to stock S13 CA18DET FMI, would that be sufficient?
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Location:
Coalstoun Lakes
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: 7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Tue, 10 May 2005 23:44
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bump
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Wed, 11 May 2005 12:30
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| Quote: |
was reading http://www.toymods.org.au/4A-GZE_Tech.html and I found out that the 4AGZE s/c uses an electronic clutch to enagage and disengage the S/C. How would I do this on my 7AFE as i read the S/C will die prematurely if its ran constantly?
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Unfortunately, yes, that does create another problem, you'll need to configure some kind of readout from the TPS that turns it on and off, otherwise, I would just run it constant.
It's just to let the air go around the butterfly... simliar to a Blow off valve in a turbo system (or was it waste gate?) you'll need to check this out, but it is necessary.
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Also I read without an intercooler they can run hot. I have access to stock S13 CA18DET FMI, would that be sufficient?
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Grab it, alway useful what everyway you go!
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Location:
Coalstoun Lakes
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: 7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Thu, 12 May 2005 07:33
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| Johnny wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 22:30 |
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was reading http://www.toymods.org.au/4A-GZE_Tech.html and I found out that the 4AGZE s/c uses an electronic clutch to enagage and disengage the S/C. How would I do this on my 7AFE as i read the S/C will die prematurely if its ran constantly?
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Unfortunately, yes, that does create another problem, you'll need to configure some kind of readout from the TPS that turns it on and off, otherwise, I would just run it constant.
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TPS as in Throttle Position Sensor? hmm, I wonder how hard that would be? I wonder if there is a electronic circuit in the silicon chip's electronic car circuit book.
| Johnny wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 22:30 |
It's just to let the air go around the butterfly... simliar to a Blow off valve in a turbo system (or was it waste gate?) you'll need to check this out, but it is necessary.
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So I should try to get a S/C with this still on it?
| Johnny wrote on Wed, 11 May 2005 22:30 |
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Also I read without an intercooler they can run hot. I have access to stock S13 CA18DET FMI, would that be sufficient?
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Grab it, alway useful what everyway you go!
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My mate has it sitting there, and he said i could have it for nothing if i need it.
Will I need a full aftermarket ECU? or could I just get a fuel computer?
So I'll need bigger injectors, would i need a bigger fuel pump too?
and is that all I'd need?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
south of the big smoke
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Thu, 12 May 2005 12:30
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sounds to me you need to work out what ya want
cheap---reliable --- powerful you can only have 2!!! sounds to me you are looking for the first and third of these,
to do it properly u will need aftermarket computer for both timming and fuel
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Location:
Coalstoun Lakes
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: 7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Mon, 30 May 2005 10:54
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Tim from Raptor SC suggested a GREDDY E-MANAGE for the ECU.
What injectors would be suitable?
Tim suggested a Hobbs switch (vacuum) for controlling the SC clutch.
So adding up some costs:
4AGZE SC: ~$400
Greddy EManage: $550
Hobbs Switch: $30
Injectors: ??? (depending on which ones I need)
Custom Fitting: ~$400
Other stuff: ??? (Boost Gauge $100)
Tune/Dyno Run: ??? (I guess a few of hundred?)
I have the option of adding the S13 Siliva Intercooler (Stock) (or splashing out and getting a nice polished FMI for bling factor  ) but that will add extra costs for plumbing, and Tim didn't think it would make any difference when only running 6-7psi.
Anything else I have forgotten, or need to take note of?
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Mon, 30 May 2005 15:23
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GREDDY E-MANAGE for the ECU.
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Yeah as long as he's tuning it, They're just a bitch to tune from scratch when comparing to a Microtech, but when up and running they are good
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What injectors would be suitable?
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GZE if they have the right impedance, or 7MGTE etc Autronic have a nice flow rate program that can be downloaded from the website
http://www.autronic.com/software/injsize.zip
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Anything else I have forgotten, or need to take note of?
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You've covered all bases now  good luckk with it
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Location:
Coalstoun Lakes
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: 7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Mon, 30 May 2005 23:30
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| Johnny wrote on Tue, 31 May 2005 01:23 |
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GREDDY E-MANAGE for the ECU.
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Yeah as long as he's tuning it, They're just a bitch to tune from scratch when comparing to a Microtech, but when up and running they are good
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Yeah, he will be tuning it too (if i go through him, which most likely)
| Johnny wrote on Tue, 31 May 2005 01:23 |
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What injectors would be suitable?
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GZE if they have the right impedance, or 7MGTE etc Autronic have a nice flow rate program that can be downloaded from the website
http://www.autronic.com/software/injsize.zip
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Ok, I have no idea about injectors. What is impedance? And how do i find out which ones would be suitable?
| Johnny wrote on Tue, 31 May 2005 01:23 |
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Anything else I have forgotten, or need to take note of?
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You've covered all bases now good luckk with it
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Sweet, now I just have to save up some money and get it done. I'll probably do my suspension first though (lower, and stiffer) (and check my brakes too)
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Tue, 31 May 2005 10:47
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for a naturally atmo engine 7age{not fe} is good but for superchargeing i would just put a gze with one of john's nevo pulley kits on! the cost etc just isnt worth it. even for an nat atmo engine it will cost a bit unless you do the work etc. the fe head js not very good for anything but saving fuel. just swap a gze with standard computer and nevo kit and smile.
mick
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Location:
Coalstoun Lakes
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: 7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Mon, 06 June 2005 05:25
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If I was to get the rods shot-peened and nitrated, would that be enough to alow me to wind up the boost, or would the crank and pistons still be too weak?
How much does it cost to get shot-peening and nitration done?
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Mon, 06 June 2005 06:53
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7aFe
f = economy(narrow) head, in no way designed to produce excessive amounts of power.
Eldar.O.
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Location:
Coalstoun Lakes
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: 7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Thu, 16 June 2005 23:13
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I''ll only be running 7PSI so its not going to be excessive ammounts of power.
Maybe at a later stage I might consider upgrading the motor, and putting a GE head on, upgrading the pistons, and strengthing the rods and crank.
kingmick: I'd have to get at least an AE101 4AGZE to put in my car, I'm not sure where I'll find them?
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: 7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Fri, 17 June 2005 02:35
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| EldarO wrote on Mon, 06 June 2005 16:53 |
7aFe
f = economy(narrow) head, in no way designed to produce excessive amounts of power.
Eldar.O.
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I've seen bill sherwood and cruzsida both say that the FE heads are in no way inferior to the GE heads.
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Fri, 17 June 2005 03:29
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taken from the "articles" page of the toymods index page.
"F - Narrow angle Twin Cam (economical head)"
Narrow angle meaning the ports and everything else are in a different poisition,
"G - Wide angle Twin Cam (sportier head)"
If they were exactly the same, why would toyota feel the need to engineer two different heads?
They may be similar, but the wider angle head is obviously better suited to performance application.
7afe is 1.8 litre isnt it? i assume its just a stroked 4a? i know nothing about these engines, but, it seems simple enough to swap the heads and ecu over, seeing as they *apparantly* are bolt up.
the 7afe/4age could probably only put up with 6-8 psi of boost on high compression setup before is fucks up, whats the point?
Buy a 4AGZE, swap it in, apart from the ecu, everything should *glide* right in.
Eldar.O.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Fri, 17 June 2005 09:47
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| EldarO wrote on Mon, 06 June 2005 16:53 |
7aFe
f = economy(narrow) head, in no way designed to produce excessive amounts of power.
Eldar.O.
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Tell y'what, I'll swap you my 4aGe for a 1gzFe, or if you really drive a hard bargain, a 3uzFe. Sound fair?
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 7AFE -> 7AFZE?
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Sat, 18 June 2005 01:46
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7afe is 1.8 litre isnt it? i assume its just a stroked 4a? i know nothing about these engines, but, it seems simple enough to swap the heads and ecu over, seeing as they *apparantly* are bolt up.
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First, technically yes they are a stroked 4A, but to accomdate the extra stroke, the block is different it's 14mm taller. Also pistons are different, if you throw a GE head straight on to a FE block, you comp will be around 7.5:1, and even for F/I this would be way too and the thing would have to be on boost to go any where, You need to use the GE(or GZE) pistons to match that head... That's just the start.
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the 7afe/4age could probably only put up with 6-8 psi of boost on high compression setup before is fucks up, whats the point?
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Not if you use GZE pistons.
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Buy a 4AGZE, swap it in, apart from the ecu, everything should *glide* right in.
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If it's an AE101 cut ande the car is and AE101,(which birdies is) You'll find it's all plug and play, by far this would be my number one choice if asked what engine in this car...
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