| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Wolf 3D cold start
|
Sat, 14 May 2005 12:56
|
 |
Hi all,
I'm still having a few issues with starting my Gen 2 3SGTE when cold. Its got a Wolf3D V4 EMS, and standard ignition and injectors for now.
Here are my current settings :
Ignition Timing when cranking : 8.8 deg BTDC
Starting Fuel Rate : 3ms
Initial Fuel Pulse : Activated with 5ms Add-on
Post Start Enrichment : On, Inj1 Linear Mode with a 1.2% Decay Rate
Then I have an approx +26% fuel modifier on for around 20 degrees Engine Temp (typical cold start at this time of year).
Thanks for any help
Cheers,
Paul.
|
|
|
Location:
Melb
Registered:
April 2005
|
|
Re: Wolf 3D cold start
|
Sat, 14 May 2005 16:57
|
|
it sounds like your problem lies elswhere than the fuel supply.
That's plenty of fuel to get it started if everything else is running right. I've had similar problems with mine which turned out to be the old earthing issues. Wolf's don't like much voltage drop in my experience. If your batteries a bit suspect, under cranking voltage can drop enough to make sensing the crank/dizzy pulses difficult to 'see' to the wolf, (even if the ECU doesn't reset) once running the alternator can pump a bit of extra surface charge on the battery which gives you a bit more kick the next start, plus the motor already being warm would fire on the first spark. If you find sometimes it wants to go as you let go of the key? if manual try parking it on a hill sometime, letting it cool down, and try roll starting from cold. This will not put any stress on the battery etc since the started is not in use and if it starts and runs you've found your problem, otherwise not sure, but def seems your problem is not fuel.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: Wolf 3D cold start
|
Sat, 14 May 2005 23:58
|
|
thanks for that reply mate. Very helpful.
What you say could make sense if the Wolf doesn't like voltage drops. The stock ecu starts the car first go no questions asked.
I run a small Odessey battery on the car, which doesn't have huge reserves. I've noted battery voltages down around 9.8V-10.1V or so when cranking on my laptop. And of course the little battery doesn't help things if the car doesn't kick over in the first 2 seconds or so.
I'll connect up my Hilux's 500CCA monster this afternoon and try that. Might be time to rethink battery options  Pity as this little Odessey is virtually brand new.
Thanks again.
|
|
|
Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Wolf 3D cold start
|
Sun, 15 May 2005 01:57
|
|
what exactly is your engine doing/not doing at start up for it to be a concern? if your finding extended cranking before firing id increase the cold start enrichment or maybe you need to change the table values
you could also try two other things seperately..
first jump up your ignition rate to 10deg BTDC, try that for a couple of mornings and see how it goes.
secondly, to me 3ms isnt a lot of base fuel, but that will depend on all the variables if its stumbling a bit or running low rpm you could also be overfuelling on the cold start enrichment, I personally use the linear decay and over time ive played with the cold start variables to get the engine almost exactly how i want it. But then with bigger cams i also accept it will very rarely fire on the first crank when stone cold 
|
|
|
Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: Wolf 3D cold start
|
Sun, 15 May 2005 05:17
|
|
Stu,
Well it seems to be the ECU as you and me would have the same base map...
What sort of voltage do you have when cranking?
IRA11Y : The engine just cranks and cranks, probably for a good 10 seconds or so, and still doesn't fire. 26% should be plenty of extra cold enrichment fuel I would have thought?
Once its started, it runs perfectly and holds a steady 875rpm when warm and 1100rpm when cold. Which really does point to a voltage problem as ta22skyblue pointed out.
At the moment I just plug the stock ECU back in, fire it up first try, get the engine coolant temp up to around 60 deg, then swap the ECUs around again and then the Wolf is happy and starts first try. Not an optimal setup, and a royal pain in the arse
|
|
|
Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Wolf 3D cold start
|
Sun, 15 May 2005 05:26
|
|
|
try increasing the cranking fuel rate then, go up by up to 10 points and if that doesnt improve it reduce it down from the start setting one point at a time, id say its overfuelling on cold start up.
|
|
|
Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Wolf 3D cold start
|
Sun, 15 May 2005 12:12
|
|
im in agreweeance here - def. something to do with its cold start properties - once warm the thing drives like a dream ..
On cranking with the oddessy 800 , i sit on about 11 on the hand controller - and around 13.4 when running
It does smell very rich after a few goes at cranking - so yeah she might be running too much juice on the crank - I dunno - not a expert thats for sure - hopefully the more tailored to my car map might provide more answers
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: Wolf 3D cold start
|
Sun, 15 May 2005 14:34
|
|
while not wolf, i had to overcome similar issues with my MS..
the actual cranking pulsewidths are critical to get good starting. the range i found was about 1.5-2ms wide, and outside that, no startee.. the MS has two crankign values (which it interpolates), 14.5ms@-40C, and 3ms at 77C. less than 13.5, or more than 15, and car doesn't start...
as for cold enrichment, at 20 deg, i have an extra 30-35% fuel for abotu 20deg (30% of the max injected fuel amount, ie 100% VE), decreasing nearly linearly to abotu 70C
the biggest prob when working otu cranking pulsewidths.... if it didn't start, there is always fuel there to confuse things. you either have to get it fired up, or wait till that fuel leaves the intake, otherwise when it does fire up after 2nd or 3rd time, the values used may not even be close.....
have fun
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: Wolf 3D cold start
|
Sun, 15 May 2005 21:36
|
|
|
Spectral: have you visited all the mr2 forums to try and find out what coldstart settings those guys are using? If not, i have a few links at home which ill post up, might help.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: Wolf 3D cold start
|
Mon, 16 May 2005 02:26
|
|
thanks all, I have some free time this afternoon to play with those settings and I'll post up my results here.
Lance : I don't know any online MR2 owners that use the Wolf. This is ECU number 2 that Wolf have made for the 3SGTE (Stu's is the first I believe)... the settings differ between ECUs as oldcorolla points out.. so the settings on a Motec/Autronic etc are different to a Wolf. The principle is the same however.
To be honest also, I personally find the MR2 boards are more hinderance than help. Like All-trac.net. You post a question and they all start waffling on and not actually answering. I'll get a reply like "Why not use a Autronic", "Why not a PowerFC" etc.
Its just a matter of playing around that will solve the problem.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: Wolf 3D cold start
|
Mon, 16 May 2005 07:46
|
|
Spectral: yeah i know the wolf isn't commmon on the 3sgte, but bare with me. I was talking about cold start parameters for other ecus. As you said, in essence they are all relatively the same.
http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/ems.htm <- That one is for a TEC3
All the others i had are dead links now. But yeah. Might help, might not.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: Wolf 3D cold start
|
Mon, 16 May 2005 08:11
|
|
Thanks for the link mate, I do have it in my favourites folder somewhere, but hadn't checked it since getting the ECU on my car
I managed to get it started a bit nicer this afternoon. Cold start enrichment got bumped up to 33% instead of 26%. I also used my Hilux battery as well to make sure it had plenty of voltage.
Tomorrow I'll try it with my normal battery, to see if it was fuel, or the voltage causing the issues. Or both.
Its annoying testing cold starts, as you have to wait for the engine to cool overnight for accurate testing
|
|
|
Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Wolf 3D cold start
|
Mon, 16 May 2005 08:52
|
|
nods - mine was the first to be run - there was another that went to WA - never to be heard of again previous to mine ..
they got some base data off the initial dyno runs but were unable to finish die to my TPS being screwy and Tvis going whacko
both have been vixed ..
Just waiting now on the frontmount to finish and its going back to be re dynoed - then most of the issues should be sorted
OT spectral - are you running aircon off the ecu and does it seem to work ?? Thats one issue also i need to take up with em when it goes back
Also - you have PM
|
|
|
