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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Mon, 23 May 2005 23:42
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Friends celica is using quite abit of coolant. I think it's had a slight headgasket leak since he buaght the car, and the car dealer just patched it up with some stop leak. In anycase you can put a cup at the exuast and rev the engine and your cup would be full of water within half an hour or more.
So blown headgasket for sure.
I don't have a manual to go off. It looks pretty straight forward. But i don't know the torque values for the headbolts.
Anybody able to give me a brief step by step on how to remove the head on a gen1 3sge? or even scan in a few pages with relevant info from a service manual, i'll put $5 into your bank account if anyone can do that for me.
Also any top tips to getting the rusty exuast manifold bolts off? spray some wd40 on a few days before hand, or heat the rusty bolts up are the only tricks i know of and don't always work too well. i really hate trying to get exhuast bolts off.
I can't wait to start working on the tojo's again, so sick of working on mercedes 5 cylinder turbo diesel that had 4 bent conrods and a banana shaped head from overheating. Really not impressed with there engineering.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Tue, 24 May 2005 01:10
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ive got the workshop manual at home, ill get the torque settings for you., dotn have a scanner but i should be able to give you the numbers you need. ill get it this arvo when iget home.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Tue, 24 May 2005 01:18
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most excellent.
If you can give me a basic run down of steps. Take intake pipe off, take exuast manifold off, take timing belt cover off, take timing belt off? do i need to jack the engine up at the front? My mums 3s-f camry needed the engine jacked up at the front to get the timing belt off.
PM me your account details too. 
Thanx.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Tue, 24 May 2005 06:22
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toof mate at least the headbolt sequence and torque settings. The rest i should work out.
gonna do it on friday/saturday.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Tue, 24 May 2005 07:49
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unfortunantly i havent got a scanner. but it is basically pull it all out. timing belt out, cams out, undo head. head off. clean it up. put back together. ive photographed the pages with the torque specs.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~toof/3sgehead.pdf
never mind with the account. happy to help.
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Tue, 24 May 2005 08:13
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i duno if i would be doing that if i didnt know wat i was doing.
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Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Tue, 24 May 2005 09:28
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Taking the head off while it is in the car is a headache, but doable.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Wed, 25 May 2005 11:19
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thanx. Yeah i took the advice of ripping parts off and eventually you'll get it.
quite a job with the 3sge, and i'm still not sure how to take the intake manifold off. so it looks like i will take it off attached to the head. Saving me friend a shit load of money, hope i get a little something out of doing this 
By the way toof, i downloaded your PDF but it seems to have an error and adobe acrobat won't open it :(-
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Wed, 25 May 2005 13:36
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If you want to get the timing cover off you need to drain the power steering and pull the hoses out of the way - you also need to disconnet and remove the east engine mount to get to a couple of the bolts.
Please don't butcher the timing belt cover to make it easier to put back on, those things are rare enough to find in perfect nick as it is.
And to pull it out once you've got all the bolts out - you need to rotate it anti-clockwise about 70 degrees and push it towards the firewall a bit, you should be able to pull it up a fair way and manouvre it out from there.
Everyone says that it's a bitch to do but I can do it in 15 mins flat if necessary (no guarantees as to how much power steer fluid I spill in the process  )
As always, you will have to bleed the power steering system once you've put everything back together.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Thu, 26 May 2005 11:12
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Ah yeah it was quite easy, pretty much the same as my mums camry. I disconnected the PS hose from the resivour and blocked the hole up. Jacked engine up, took motor mount out, took top timing cover off. Battled with crank pulley for awhile, resorted to the starter motor trick and pulley remover. But taking the water pump off...oh man what grief! why is there a frikin philps screw at the top holding the water pump in place! it was stripped to absolute buggery! and would explain why the water pump is shaggeed! previous machanic never took it off becuase he oculdn't get that screw out! didn't stop him charging money and saying he changed the water pump tho
So after angle grinding that water pump off it was all pretty smooth sailing, altho the idler tension pulley for the timing belt was abit of a puzzel, i was looking everywhere for an adjusting nut to loosen the tension, but you just have to force it back and unclip the spring.
Found the timing belt had skipped a few teeth, doesn't line up with the marks at TDC, so a nice bonus for when my friend gets his celica back and find it's got abit more go then before.
Haven't taken the head off becuase of work, and the PDF toof supplied having an unrecoverable error :(- so i can't see the torque sequence.
(would the torque sequence be the same as a 3s-gte?
Orderd $550 in parts from toyota, dam they know how to charge! $449 for the top end gasket kit! $160 for the water pump, $66 for exuast manifold. $209 for the accesory belt tensioner!
One question, do you take the inlet manifold off before removing the head? or take the head off with the whole inlet manifold still attached? I ask this becuase i cannot see how to access the bolts for the intake manifold.
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Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Thu, 26 May 2005 11:31
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| dingaling wrote on Thu, 26 May 2005 21:12 |
<<snip>>
One question, do you take the inlet manifold off before removing the head? or take the head off with the whole inlet manifold still attached? I ask this becuase i cannot see how to access the bolts for the intake manifold.
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Gotta try and get the inlet off before the head, otherwise it'll foul on the firewall when you goto remove the head.
Small hands, and a long nosed 12mm socket does the trick.
Handy hint. unbolt the front and rear engine mounts, so you can 'rock' the engine forward to give a little more access.
You will soon understand why its easier to do out of the car
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Location:
Melb, Victoria
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Thu, 26 May 2005 11:58
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Most aftermarket h/gasket (VRS)kits come with a page of notes telling you the torque settings and bolt sequence for the h/gasket.
Does the toyota OEM gaskets have this info too?
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Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Thu, 26 May 2005 12:06
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| Aust162 wrote on Thu, 26 May 2005 21:58 |
Most aftermarket h/gasket (VRS)kits come with a page of notes telling you the torque settings and bolt sequence for the h/gasket.
Does the toyota OEM gaskets have this info too?
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h/gaskets don't come with torque settings. It is dependant on what head fastner your using.
My cometic didn't.
I'm using ARP head studs, which tell me to use there torque setting but then use the factory torque sequence.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Thu, 26 May 2005 23:21
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Thanx for the advice!
Altho it doesn't look like the intake manifold will will foul with the firewall, but it probably will foul with the strut bar (stock celica st162). Will try your trick, if no good, i will try mine
Still need to get the torque sequence for taking the head off, and to put it back on. :(-
I have found 3sgte torque settings and torque sequence, just unsure if they are te same.
When putting the timing belt on, the cam gears should be lined up with there TDC marks, and the crank pulley should be lined up with it's TDC mark. This one was out about 3 teeth!! can't wait to see the difference that will make.
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Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Thu, 26 May 2005 23:30
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Take the strut off then And do my trick.
Also there is a sequence yo uhave to follow on putting the timing belt on as well. Follow the 3sgte one for this as well.
As for torque sequence for removal, follow the 3sgte one. Its the same. Also if you are going to use NEW toyota headstuds, then also use the 3sgte one.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Fri, 27 May 2005 00:04
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And if i'm going to use the old headbolts? don't follow the 3sgte instructions?
Thanx for your assistance and that link in your sig is VERY helpful!
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Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Fri, 27 May 2005 00:13
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| dingaling wrote on Fri, 27 May 2005 10:04 |
And if i'm going to use the old headbolts? don't follow the 3sgte instructions?
Thanx for your assistance and that link in your sig is VERY helpful!
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The headbolts that are in the 3SGE or 3SGTE (they are both the same... hint hint) are torque to yield. Use once throw away. People will argue this though, but its upto you to spend the extra $5 per bolts(x10) for peace of mind.
The 3SGTE and 3SGE torque and bolt patterns are the same. You will need a 12spline socket thingy (the name misses me at the moment) to remove it.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Fri, 27 May 2005 01:43
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Right, well $5 ea isn't as bad as i thought. Mercedes headbolts were about $19 ea, and i needed 22 of them! 
Just rang toyota and they lost my parts! well the courier seems to of lost the box containing the parts i ordered. And they don't have headbolts in stock for me, i asked if the camry 3s-fe camry headbolts were the same parts, aswell as the headgasket but the guy reckons they wern't and would not even check it up on the computer for me. So looks like my friends celica won't be back on the road this weekend. :(-
BLAST I HATE COURIER/POST ERRORS! really throws a spanner in the works. >>>>>:(
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Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Fri, 27 May 2005 02:18
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3SFE HeadBolt: 90109-10132
3SGE HeadBolt: 90910-02094
3SGTE Headbolt: 90910-02094
Note the 3SG heads share the same bolts
3SFE Headgasket: 11115-74070
3SGE Headgasket: 11115-74090
3SGTE Headgasket: 11115-88382
All the stock toyota headgaskets are different though. Probably different thicknesses and compositions.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Fri, 27 May 2005 02:35
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Thanx for those part numbers!
They had the tensioner spring listed under 2 different prices, even tho it had the same part number! one was $15, and the other was about $5??
So I might ring toyota back and just test em out and see if they have them in stock going from the part numbers.
Wonder if i should just go get an aftermarket headgasket from repco?? Timing belt that i took off looks very good still, altho i hear not to reuse them.
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Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Fri, 27 May 2005 02:51
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Well, if u've gone to the effort of pulling the timing belt off, you may as well replace it while your in there.
3SGE Timing Belt: 13568-79045
Now as for the tensioner. Its a spring, so it would be
3SGE Spring, Tension (for idler) : 90506-18066
There are several springs available for the 3SFE as well, and the 3SGTE uses a different kind of tensioner.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Fri, 27 May 2005 03:19
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ah i see! now your not telling me that spring is what keeps the timing belt tensioned are you? surely not.
Can i ask, how are you able to get all the part numbers? Do you have the toyota parts catalogue?
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Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Fri, 27 May 2005 03:30
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| dingaling wrote on Fri, 27 May 2005 13:19 |
ah i see! now your not telling me that spring is what keeps the timing belt tensioned are you? surely not.
Can i ask, how are you able to get all the part numbers? Do you have the toyota parts catalogue?
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Cause i am god 
3SGE
3SGTE
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Fri, 27 May 2005 06:18
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So it would seem! dam i could use that manul in pdf format!
I quoted the toyota guy the headbolt part number and he was abit surprised that i had that sorta info. He said it did refer to the right item, but he also checked the headbolts under the celica 3sge and the part numbers were different. In any case the price for ea headbolt was around $4.95 or something. So very good :)-
PM sent too.
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Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Fri, 27 May 2005 06:23
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Don't be surprised if parts are superceded. This happens whenever i quote part numbers.
The Local toyota parts guys love me when i come in with part numbers. To such an extent i get trade under the table It makes there life easier.
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Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Just need abit of info about changing headgasket on a 3sge
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Fri, 27 May 2005 06:29
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| dingaling wrote on Fri, 27 May 2005 16:18 |
<<snip>>
PM sent too.
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and replied.
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