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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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ca18det into ke20
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Thu, 26 May 2005 14:06
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Gday fellas,
This is a long way off, many things to worry about first - but a mate of mine has access to front cuts quite cheaply, which got me thinking.
I have a 74 ke20, which i believe has a quoted tare weight of 720kg, meaning that by rta rules the max capacity turbo engine you can have is 1800cc's.
Before you all say 4agze - i don't feel that is a cost effective item. Aside from the fact that these engines and parts are sought after by the initial D dorifto boys (pushing the price up) - its inevitable that i'd want to convert it to turbo, and that just isn't cost effective.
So, it got me thinking about running a ca18det. Sr20's have been done before (would be nice, but illegal). How one goes about mounting it (and who could make mounts?) i'm at a complete loss to ponder.
There's a few other things i was wondering though.
-Gearbox - what would i use? Would the stock box from a silvia/180sx fit in my tunnel / shifter be remotely close? (Tunnel already been hacked up...)
-Custom tailshaft i assume would sort any rear end problems, worry about driveline strength later
-Fuel delivery. Current tank useable with external pump?
-Would ta22 celica brakes be enough to get it engineered? They currently are not power assisted.
-Weight. How much heavier is a ca18det than a 2tg?
Thats it for now i think. Don't give me anything about blasphemy - my car is already a bit of a mongrel, and it has a rollcage etc. So i really couldn't give a turd.
Thanks,
Bardin.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Thu, 26 May 2005 14:13
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Heh, you really are crazy  I like.
I will eventually be doing a CA18 KE35 conversion when I get the car off Rex. Should be pretty easy. Looking at using RA60/MA61 brakes to stop it. And a TA22 diff, custom tailshaft.
Should fit nicely with the CA18 box anyway, i measured it up and the shifter position will be slightly further back, but thats in a good place anyway.
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Thu, 26 May 2005 23:07
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So you still haven't got a hold of the car yet? I got the impression things would have been well on their way by now
Still got that locked rear end, i don't see myself putting it back in, if its worth anything to you. Might put it for sale on here i guess. Whats it worth?
When are you intending on doing your switch? Will you be making the mounts yourself, or do you have any suggestions in this department? Any tunnel / shifter location issues i can probably sort with the help of a mate, but the actual mounts are another issue. I assume one wants the engine as far back as possible?
Things have started to speed up with my car - Sprayed the dash and replaced all the dash plastics, new headlights, wheels and carpet are on the go at the moment, i've had a bit of extra cash, so i'm making use of it 
Such thoughts are stemming partly from the knowledge that my current 2tg won't last forever. I'd like a little more out of it, but theres nothing much i can do to this engine, and nor do i want to spend the cash on another 2tg.
[Updated on: Thu, 26 May 2005 23:08]
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Thu, 26 May 2005 23:18
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Nah, the guy is using it while he is finishing off his sprinter. I dont mind waiting, as it cost me all of a case to buy.
Besides i have my own sprinter to worry about atm.
Ill be making the mounts myself, but havnt started looking at what i can do just yet, will get back to you on that one when i start.
Gearbox mounts will probably be done with captive nuts welded to plates and then welded to the floorpan.
Pretty simple that way, but again, i havnt started looking yet.
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Thu, 26 May 2005 23:59
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i can do it but im in tamworth! a bloke i worked with is in camden and builds racecars and he has done a ca18det into datto ute at a resonable price. i can ring him and see if he has time to do it if you want! im just putting one in my sprinter. a ke will be a weapon with one.
mick
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Fri, 27 May 2005 00:12
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| Bananaman wrote on Fri, 27 May 2005 00:06 |
Before you all say 4agze - i don't feel that is a cost effective item. Aside from the fact that these engines and parts are sought after by the initial D dorifto boys (pushing the price up) - its inevitable that i'd want to convert it to turbo, and that just isn't cost effective.
-Gearbox - what would i use? Would the stock box from a silvia/180sx fit in my tunnel / shifter be remotely close? (Tunnel already been hacked up...)
-Fuel delivery. Current tank useable with external pump?
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a 4A will be lighter and give better weight distribution then either a T, S or CA/SR motor... but CA's are good motors and pretty cheap for what they are.
KE20 tunnel will fit a T series size, but needs (apparently) a little work to fit a W box.. could be worse . moving shifter about 6" backwards would be perfect imo.
for fuel, i'm using a KE20 tank in my KE10, with an intank Walbro/Holley pump. you can get 255L/Hr ones, and they are cheap (off ebay, look for Holley branded ones.. could be landed for $50  ) and they are smaller than most. just get a ring from something like.. AE82 tank and weld it to the top middle (still use stock tank level sender)then get the pump hanger, extend it downwards so it is sucking from near the bottom, and bob's yer uncle. you could also use a KE10 fuel sender, so that it will read empty when there is 1/4 tank left , i've never had fuel probs with this.... there's a thread somewhere with pics too..
as for brakes, i'd be putting in whatever fits under a 15" rim
with the weight of the car, and larger diameter discs, not having boosted brakes should not be a prob..
oh and KE10 is 720kg, KE20 is more like 750-770kg, so you have a little more capacity.
Cya, Stewart
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Fri, 27 May 2005 00:19
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stew you didnt give me you ph number! i cant ring you and give you a hard time if i dont have it:)i have the freinds contacts for you in jp.
mick
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Fri, 27 May 2005 04:22
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kingmick - like i said its early days, but if the price is worth it, then i guess travelling isn't out of the question.. But we're probably talking at least a good few months from now before it gets to that stage. An idea of cost would be appreciated nonetheless.
There are pros and cons to using a 4A as opposed to CA, but for me the availability and price of the engine itself and associated parts tips the balance for me..
I already have a T50 now, with a 2tg. I figured it wasn't worthwhile mucking about with using this box to mate to a CA engine? I figured that provided that the box fits, a custom tailshaft would be simpler/easier than having to muck about with custom bellhousing/flywheel/clutch setup etc.
Having said that, i've no idea what a silva/180sx box looks like compared to a T50.
15" rims will be coming soon, i'll probably just keep my eye out for brake upgrades on here that seem to come up every so often. I'm at a loss as to whether i buy something to suit a ta22 or a ke20 though, given that i have ta22 brakes now?
For an sr20, need 800kg, that was really my only other consideration, so still not enough anyways. You
Thanks for your advice fellas,
Bardin
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Fri, 27 May 2005 05:52
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interesting, i saw a ke35 the other day at a tyre shop and went up to look at it, the guy was putting in a ca18det, it was on the gold coast. 1800cc's turbo id be goin the 3tgte for cost, installation and of course toyota dont ca's and sr's still use rockers instead of true overhead cam  nissan... lol
well mightly respect for those truly powerful ca18dets tho, and i have seen some pretty worked sr20dets too.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Mon, 30 May 2005 09:52
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I'd rather something with readily available parts and know how, and i hate to say it, but i wouldn't really put the 3tgte in this basket. They're also an old engine, so fresh examples aren't going to be easy or cheap to come by.
Currently trying to gather info on what gearbox can be used..
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Mon, 30 May 2005 13:50
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I would stick with the Nissan box. I believe that they're still using the same box that was originally used with the Z18T, which was used on the FJ and then the SR (I am assuming that this same box is used behind the CA). I am pretty sure that they are narrower across the guts that the W58, although it has been a long time since I have touched a Nissan gearbox.
Brakes, there is many ways to skin that cat and you're in front with the TA22 struts in place.
You may as well do something about the diff before getting the eng cert, as you will be getting a custom tailshaft done you may as well do it once from front to back.
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Location:
u.s.a. south
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Mon, 30 May 2005 20:40
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with the slightest bit of aggressive driving, a healthy ca18det will kill a t50 box. I wouldn't waste the time adapting it. CA already has a solid gbox that should have no prob at all in a lightwt hull... even at 400hp
w58 box ~same length as t50. Nissan gearstick ~6" further back/longer
I'd go with at least a 7.5" diff
A ca seems like a slighty improved version of a 4agze/t50... except a few more nice features like; displ, a crank girdle, cas on front, strong oe gbox, starter and oil filter on the intake side (unlike where toyota put 'em), etc.. Makes alot more sense going ca than building up a 4ag imo
Tuned with only a chipped nissan ecu/ z32 mas, you can make enough hp/tq in a 800kg car to frighten you. Motor fits into these li'l rolla like they belong there
I have a full ca/5sp drivetrain that will end up in my te71 wagon, if I don't find a suitable datsun body. Lucky for me these kinda swaps are ez. Target is to run mid-low 11s in a full wt, airconditioned street car.... wanna do it on stock internals and nissan ecu tho
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Tue, 31 May 2005 00:17
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Yeah, the CA box seems to fit with little issue whatsoever.
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Tue, 31 May 2005 23:28
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Good good. My tunnel has already been hacked a bit, a little more won't hurt it Was intending on cleaning it up a bit (cutting / welding it cleaner, installation was clearly done with some gentle persuasion).
Been having a look at prices on ca18s, they're quite cheap, and readily available thanks to s13 owners switching to sr20s, good to see.
I also notice that the brakes from them are also readily (and cheaply!) available, thanks to 5 stud conversions. Anyone got the specs on them / are they a worthwhile or feasible switch? They're at least the right stud pattern to begin with are they not? (I'm already 4x114.3). Can get some from a 180sx complete for $100..
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Thu, 02 June 2005 08:52
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Bump, keen for anyone in the know re 180sx brakes and the feasibility of it?
Might have to get some pics of my struts / brakes to verify their identity / what would suit, my car is a bit of a mishmash of parts from many cars..
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Fri, 03 June 2005 03:27
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I have pintara crossed drilled and verted discs with commodore callipers on my ta22 struts in my ke25. THe calliper bracket is custom made but anything is possible. The guy i bought it off made coil overs out of his ta22 struts with s13 sr20 brakes!! They are unbelievable!!.
Michael
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Sat, 04 June 2005 23:53
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What size are they? Disc fits straight on?
Any chance of a copy of the bracket / the contact which made it for you / did you make it yourself?
Thanks,
Bardin.
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Sat, 16 July 2005 07:41
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Well.. I've purchased myself an r31 skyline rear end, with a 4.1 ratio vn commodore lsd centre (assuming pintara bits mixed in for that ratio).
Now i need to get it shortened - can anyone point me in the direction of somewhere that does it cheaply in the sydney area? Would get all the mounst etc switched over at the same time, and supply both diffs.
Thanks fellas.
Bardin
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Tue, 04 October 2005 01:36
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bump. keen to call around and get prices for shortening, anyone got some recommendations?
Things have progressed a bit since i made this thread - i've got new 15in wheels (getting new tyres this week finally) - i've put in carpet and sound deadening, getting new bride replica seats shortly..
I've bought s4 rx7 front calipers, will get the discs to match soon, and then hopefuly some coilovers made up.. We'll see how it goes.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Tue, 04 October 2005 03:59
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My mate has CA18 in KE30, his gearbox shifter housing position is a little too close to the chassis rail under the front seat for my liking. I would assume KE20 could only be worse? It could be that he just mounted the rear of the gearbox too high tho. Not sure though as i havent looked.
Im in the process of designing/making custom baking plates to suit R32 GTR front brakes to KE30 struts. Might make a few of them if it's feasable. Not sure if these will fit KE20 struts? I'll have to wait and find out
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Tue, 04 October 2005 05:06
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Ke20 and KE30 have same gearbox shifter position, so it's likely they have similar position in-car too...
are the R32 GTR calipers same as the 300Z 4 pots?? habve seen a few of them around for cheaps...
one thing i would think about for these big upgrades.. if you plan to put a lot of force thru the strut, via good tyres and big brakes.. it might be an idea to look to using a strut which has larger bearings and stronger stub axle... and also a wider hub which has the bearings placed further apart will also help..
of course the KE20 one could be fine, but they are not very large....
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Tue, 04 October 2005 05:14
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Yeah true. But it gets to a point where you can only do so much.. At the end of the day, any brake upgrade is bad if the other components arent designed for it.
Not sure about the 300zx. I know S14 are different to R32GTR. i think its just the disc thickness that differs. R32 I think are wider. Wouldnt be hard to modify the design to compensate.
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Wed, 05 October 2005 03:26
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I'll be interested in any options regarding front suspension and brakes that make things cheapier / easier, its not as thought i can't easily resell any bits i already have. If you can find out if the parts your making will suit ke20, that will be fantastic.
For the record, i just called the RTA to find out what they have as the weight for a ke20. I was told 740kgs, so this is the weight that would be used for engineering purposes. This allows for a turbo engine size maximum of 1850cc's.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Wed, 05 October 2005 03:30
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Go the Skyline rotors/calipers if you can - best value for money brakes, and they'll jam in under a 15" wheel. Just.
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Sat, 08 October 2005 06:08
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I just did some measuring, and i don't think the s4 calipers will fit under my wheels (gah!) - they are going to hit the spokes i think.
I'm really struggling with ideas of what to do here, can't find a consistent upgrade that people do 
My brakes are ta22 now, i have no idea what strut is used, i might take some piccys
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ca18det into ke20
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Sat, 08 October 2005 09:15
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A guy down the road, has just finished the CA18DET into a KE20.
Nissan box from the halfcut, custom tailshaft, Toyota 1G-GTE intercooler, Sylvia digital dash, shortened handbrake lever.
Took him 2 weekends, and just about every evening in between.
Brakes are the next upgrade, along with a suitable diff, dollars are limited, but all up he has done a great job, and should look really good with new paint, and some decent wheels.
cheers Chuck.
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Location:
Strathfield / Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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