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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2004
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W50 vs P51 gearbox
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Fri, 10 June 2005 05:35
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How can you tell the difference between a W50 and P51 gearbox. I know that they are both steel case, and that the P51 is close ratio, but how can I tell if the box that I have been given is a P51. I have also been given a diff by the same person, that I believe is a disc brake, live axle F series. Is it possible that they are both out of something like an RA45 GT? If they both came out of the same car, is it more likely to be a P51?
Any help appreciated, Ian.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: W50 vs P51 gearbox
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Fri, 10 June 2005 06:29
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Check the ratios
.... ........R.. ......1......2..... ....3.....4. ...5
W50 -4.039 3.287 2.043 1.394 1.00 0.853
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Registered:
June 2004
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Re: W50 vs P51 gearbox
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Fri, 10 June 2005 13:02
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i'm no pro on a p51, but i know that the w50 is at least 38kg, , is at least a three piece gearbox and the rear cover is aluminium whilst the main section is steel.
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Location:
melb
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: W50 vs P51 gearbox
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Fri, 10 June 2005 15:12
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isnt the p51 the box with those funny looking syncros in them, im not sure on the ratios tho
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: W50 vs P51 gearbox
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Sat, 11 June 2005 06:10
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Hi,
You can't tell the difference from the outside. The W50 and the P51 look identical. The P51 uses Porsche type baulk-rings instead of your normal syncros. Furthermore, these rings wear out and when they do you can't get any more. The W50 uses your standard syncro gears and parts are available for it.
You'll have to pull it apart to see if it's a P51 or a W50.
The P51 ratios, for the early GT Celica series, is...
1st - 3.525
2nd - 2.054
3rd - 1.396
4th - 1.000
5th - 0.858
You can purchase W50 boxes with the same ratios and the later Celica GTs and other vehiclesm used the W50 gearbox.
Let us know what it is. If it's a P51 I'll buy it off you 'cos I need one for a genuine early model GT Celica restoration. I could use the W50, but prefer a P51 for originality.
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: W50 vs P51 gearbox
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Sat, 11 June 2005 10:48
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while were on the topic of W50's, i was wondering why there is a difference in the bellhousings of tthe 2 W50's i have?? 
the first W50 i got come from a 1977 RA40 coupe (LT) and the bellhousing is completly smoothe with no ridges (webbing )
the other W50's ive seen (an RA23 and the one i got) have webbing sort of ridges running across the bellhousing.
what is the go with this
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Location:
melb
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: W50 vs P51 gearbox
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Sat, 11 June 2005 14:31
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the p51 is harder 2 shift , looks like the box i have is a p51 , 5 years ago when i pulled it out of the car (because it collapsed a bearing ) i pulled it apart and saw those diff looking syncros but nobody could tell me anything about it at the time , id have 2 dig it out 2 have another look
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: W50 vs P51 gearbox
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Sat, 11 June 2005 23:17
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There is no identifying marks on the outside of the casing, in fact the W50 and P51 casings share the same part numbers from Toyota.
However ther may be a way of finding out if you put a W50 and a P51 next to each other and check things like inside the shifter hole or possibly a minor difference in the main drive shaft into the box. I don't know of this being done. but if you can clarify that the box you have is a P51 and you have access to a W50 I'd like to see them side by side and look for some kind of identifying feature of the P51.
I'd do it myself but the only P51 I know of is in River's car and he won't let me pull it out. Even for the purposes of research. 
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: W50 vs P51 gearbox
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Sun, 12 June 2005 02:34
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my ra45 gt came out with a w50 box they stopped making p51 them at the end of 78
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: W50 vs P51 gearbox
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Sun, 12 June 2005 10:42
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Hi,
| Lambolica wrote on Sun, 12 June 2005 09:17 |
I'd do it myself but the only P51 I know of is in River's car and he won't let me pull it out. Even for the purposes of research.
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Yeah, I'm a hard man! However, if you think you can fix it, then give me a PM and I may let you have a go 
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: W50 vs P51 gearbox
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Sun, 12 June 2005 22:46
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| river wrote on Sun, 12 June 2005 20:42 |
Hi,
| Lambolica wrote on Sun, 12 June 2005 09:17 |
I'd do it myself but the only P51 I know of is in River's car and he won't let me pull it out. Even for the purposes of research.
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Yeah, I'm a hard man! However, if you think you can fix it, then give me a PM and I may let you have a go
seeyuzz
river
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Ok... Pull out P51 --> pull apart internals --> replace with W50 internals --> put back in car.
Fixed...??
I really just want to do a comparison between the 2 boxes sitting side by side. I'm sure there is a difference that can be found externally. I'm quite sure there is a difference between the main shafts
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Location:
melb
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: W50 vs P51 gearbox
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Mon, 13 June 2005 03:09
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well i have 2 side by side and the differance i can see is that the 50 has normal gold coulored sncro rings and the 51 had these funny looking ring things c shape sncro rings , other than that they look the same, when the p51 was in the car it was a much firmer shift as in the effort to move the shifter from gear to gear.
Dave
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: W50 vs P51 gearbox
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Mon, 13 June 2005 07:46
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OK here is me showing my comptete lack of knowledge on gear boxes...
Is that externally visable . Ie if I was offered what was claimed to be a P51 could I check this with out major pull aparts. (other than removeing the shifter)?
And is there any difference between the main shafts AT ALL? like the spline being longer of shorter on either one. different shaft diameter? any embossed numbers etc.
Pictures would be brilliant I've been wanting this answered for ages. As I'm looking for one myself.
Cheers
Simon.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: W50 vs P51 gearbox
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Fri, 17 June 2005 08:43
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Thanks for all the info. This is where I show my ignorance of gearboxes, the box is in bits at the moment, apparently so that the teeth could be inspected, but I don't know what normal syncros look like. It doesn't have a bellhousing, and I haven't been able to speak to the bloke that I got it off to find out off him what he knows. Can anyone show me the difference between the two types of syncros?
Thanks, Ian
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Location:
melb
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: W50 vs P51 gearbox
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Fri, 17 June 2005 15:16
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find gold parts =w50
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