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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2005
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 Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Sat, 18 June 2005 07:39
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Hi all,
I have a JDM 4agze aw11. I had the nevo pulley installed and was happish with the power it was making. I have been planning on converting to turbo, now seems like the perfect time to go nuts on it as the motor just shat itself.
The car is in with quickfit motorsport in sydney at the moment.
I am tossing up between rebuilding the 4agze as a 4agte or replacing it with a 3sgte.
Somehow I doubt the 4agte will have the power I am chasing without a motza of money and even then might be a bit laggy.
I want around 200rwk but I want I dont want much lag.
I already have an autronic smc ready to go with whatever combination I end up with.
What are your thoughts?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Sat, 18 June 2005 07:41
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3sgte. No 2 ways about it. Need to make the fucker fit tho! Ask around, maybe theres a kit available?
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Sat, 18 June 2005 07:53
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If you're able to do it yourself, maybe look at the 3S, but I wouldn't want to have to pay someone to do the 3S job myself. Good condition 4AG with sensible turbo/manifold, and your autronic should do what you want no worries.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Sat, 18 June 2005 08:33
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I would imagine that rebuilding the 4agze with suitable turbo would be around the same cost as installing a 3sgte. I guess it would depend how much custom work would be required for the 3sgte.
I wasn't really satisfied with the torque of the 4agze even with the pulley upgrade. I cant imagine that you could get more low down torque from the 4a than with that combination.
It could go either way based on your recommendations... Please help!!!
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Location:
Coffs Harbour
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Sat, 18 June 2005 15:30
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3SGTE
enough said 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Sat, 18 June 2005 15:34
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When you say it shat it's self, what did it do exactly? To give an idea of rebuild cost vs conversion. Anything salvageable from the old GZE?
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Sat, 18 June 2005 17:09
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It depends what you are after....
If you want a quick car at the drags then go 3sgte as it has the best bang for buck you can make close to if not more than 200kw atw with a gen 3 3sgte turbo transplant.
If you want a car that will have a bit more lagg but less wight in the rear then go the 4agte there are people here making 200kw or close too atw and are making acceptable boost by 3k.
I have driven an n/a aw11 and then converted my n/a to a 4agze. The difference in the weight between the 4agze and the 4age may only be about 50kg but boy does it make a huge difference to the handling the rear end becomes nocticbly heavier.
From what i can gather the 3sgte will add another 50kg give or take a few kg (the 3sgte guys might have a different view) to the car it might not sound like much but it makes a huge difference and for me that was enuf to stick with the 4agte.
in my view the 3sgtw will upset the handling too much than a 4agte but it would be uber fast in a straight line being so torquey so i guess its a case of what your after....
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Sun, 19 June 2005 01:41
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My car handles far better with the 3S in it than it did with the 4A. You can actually use torque to influence the balance of the car and make it do what you want, it's actually more manageable with the 3S.
As to the 3S good for straight line but not for handling I'd advise you to take a look at the results of the MR2 Owners club NA2005 event. This was a US national MR2 event that also invited GT4's and Lotus Elises. The fastest two cars in the auto cross were 3S powered AW11's they were actually ~5 seconds faster on a sub 1 minute course than the fastest SW20 turbo. The fastest car on the road course was also a 3S powered AW11.
As to which is the better conversion, that's really a personal choice. I wanted a 3S because I knew I wouldn't be happy with a 4AGZE, I'd end up turboing a 4AGZE and this would have cost as much as a 3S swap. I really wanted a nice smooth standard Toyota engine that would make 150rwKw on stock management etc. Admittedly that's not what I'm going to end up with now but that's a different story.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Sun, 19 June 2005 01:56
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Thankx for the replies.
Well there are a few things that would need fixing on the 4a
first up it appears that I have blown the rings. It needs a new starter motor and the clutch is toasted.
I am leaning toward the 3sgte. I have read various articales from other people who have done the swap and it doesn't appear to be overly difficult.
Has anyone had any luck squeazing a slightly bigger turbo in there with the 3s? I don't imagine there would be much room for much.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Sun, 19 June 2005 02:29
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I think I could sell all the parts of the gze and recoup the cost of buying the 3sgte. This would mean I would only pay for the labour of putting it in. Quick fit seem to have done quite alot of swaps like this so I trust their work wich is important.
Another reason for going 3sgte is that there appears to be many more bolt on parts for them. little things like equal length manifolds and intake gear etc. Nothing is available for the 4agze in the aw11. custom is expensive.
I don't want to upset the handling to much. I will ajust the suspension with the engine swap. I think that if the suspension was setup correctly 50 extra kilos would not upset the car to much. I tend to agree with joshstix that the car would be more controlable with more torque. The battery will be relocated to the front aswell.
Is it worthy to have the autronic installed on the 3sgte to obtain 200rwk? I mean if it wasn't really nessecary then I could sell it and put the money towards the swap.
Thanks for your help!
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Sun, 19 June 2005 07:14
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id buy a gen 2 3sgte.. use ur autronic ecu... and the other usual mild mods and 200rwkw is achievable... gen 3 will get there easier but will cost a bit more... its all about ur hip pocket
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Sun, 19 June 2005 07:54
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| Joshstix wrote on Sun, 19 June 2005 11:41 |
My car handles far better with the 3S in it than it did with the 4A. You can actually use torque to influence the balance of the car and make it do what you want, it's actually more manageable with the 3S.
As to the 3S good for straight line but not for handling I'd advise you to take a look at the results of the MR2 Owners club NA2005 event. This was a US national MR2 event that also invited GT4's and Lotus Elises. The fastest two cars in the auto cross were 3S powered AW11's they were actually ~5 seconds faster on a sub 1 minute course than the fastest SW20 turbo. The fastest car on the road course was also a 3S powered AW11.
As to which is the better conversion, that's really a personal choice. I wanted a 3S because I knew I wouldn't be happy with a 4AGZE, I'd end up turboing a 4AGZE and this would have cost as much as a 3S swap. I really wanted a nice smooth standard Toyota engine that would make 150rwKw on stock management etc. Admittedly that's not what I'm going to end up with now but that's a different story.
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thats interesting josh.
there was a very noticble difference between the 4age and the gze in regards to the balance of the car..
How much heavier is the 3sgte than the 4age????
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Sun, 19 June 2005 07:59
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| mr2sc wrote on Sun, 19 June 2005 12:29 |
I think I could sell all the parts of the gze and recoup the cost of buying the 3sgte. This would mean I would only pay for the labour of putting it in. Quick fit seem to have done quite alot of swaps like this so I trust their work wich is important.
Another reason for going 3sgte is that there appears to be many more bolt on parts for them. little things like equal length manifolds and intake gear etc. Nothing is available for the 4agze in the aw11. custom is expensive.
I don't want to upset the handling to much. I will ajust the suspension with the engine swap. I think that if the suspension was setup correctly 50 extra kilos would not upset the car to much. I tend to agree with joshstix that the car would be more controlable with more torque. The battery will be relocated to the front aswell.
Is it worthy to have the autronic installed on the 3sgte to obtain 200rwk? I mean if it wasn't really nessecary then I could sell it and put the money towards the swap.
Thanks for your help!
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50 kg's more in the rear of the car makes a huge difference to the handling in the aw11 ive found
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Sun, 19 June 2005 08:51
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To tell you the truth I haven't weighed either the 4A setup or the 3S setup. I have had a variety of different suspension setups in my car including a set of coilovers with pillow ball mounts, the stock setup and also a set of HKS rear struts and strut tops. It handles better with the coil overs and also with the HKS rear struts and stock fronts than it ever did as a 4A.
I did also move the battery to the front and have an additional radiator at the front for the water to air IC so the increase in weight at the back would be reduced considerably.
As for engine options, this si what I really wanted to do to an AW11.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Sun, 19 June 2005 09:17
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I think that v8 idea is one that every aw11 owner would do, money permitting.
Does anyone know if the 3sgte bolts to the supercharged gearbox. I know that people who have done the conversion with the n/a model have used the turbo gearbox with supercharged axles. I thought I read somewhere that the 3s and sc gearboxs are the same??? Obviously using the 3s bellhousing.
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Sun, 19 June 2005 10:13
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| 4agte wrote on Sun, 19 June 2005 03:09 |
I have driven an n/a aw11 and then converted my n/a to a 4agze. The difference in the weight between the 4agze and the 4age may only be about 50kg but boy does it make a huge difference to the handling the rear end becomes nocticbly heavier.
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the 4agze/e51 conversion adds ~100kg over the 4age. cant say i noticed the weight difference when i did mine, all i noticed was the POWA...
mr2sc, here is only one link of many that have done the 3sgte converion in the aw11.
http://www.mr2mk1club.com/turbo.html
and scour this forum
http://www.mr2oc.com/forumdisplay.php?f=58
read, learn and take note from people that have actually done the conversion.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Mon, 20 June 2005 02:02
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Well it looks like I will be converting to 3s power. The boys in the shop are keen to do it.
I am having difficulty finding a mr2 turbo half cut though. I have tried all the usual places. Anyone know of someone who has got one?
Thankx for your help
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Mon, 20 June 2005 02:22
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done and done. Thanks for that. I just rang them then.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Mon, 20 June 2005 02:23
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One problem. The car has an open diff. I have an LSD in my sc box now.
Any idea what I can do to keep my LSD?
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Mon, 20 June 2005 04:01
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the gze e51 is spose to have the same internals as the 3sgte gearbox, if your lucky the lsd you have now will be a straight swap into the 3sgte's gearbox.
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Mon, 20 June 2005 04:04
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The E153 and E58 are pretty much identical internally.
Ask around on MR2OC if it is possible to swap the diffs. I will warn you though that you have to pull the entire gearbox apart to change the diff, and if you're thinking you may as well give the box a freshen while you're in there I'm pretty sure you can't buy the Gen3 synchro's any more.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Mon, 20 June 2005 04:53
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josh do you have a lsd fitted to your car?
I wonder if it might be worth it live without it for a little while.
I spose I could always go aftermarket but I have a feeling there pretty expensive.
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Mon, 20 June 2005 05:51
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Yeah mine is a stock LSD it's really tame until you light the tyres, then it's well sideways.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Mon, 20 June 2005 06:16
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Not sure how to handle this one. I like a tight lsd. The one in my car now was great.
I might keep looking around for the perfect halfcut I think as I dont want to have to do things twice. That link above was actually for a series 2 motor that had been coverted into an n/a series 1.
I really want the series 3 motor with LSD and I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra for that, so if anyone sees one please let me know.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Mon, 20 June 2005 06:19
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By the way for anyone who is interested in the parts off my 4agze, they are listed in the for sale section. 
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Location:
brisvegas
Registered:
December 2004
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Mon, 20 June 2005 07:01
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oooook
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Busted my motor... 4agte or 3sgte
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Mon, 20 June 2005 07:42
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| feral4mr2 wrote on Sun, 19 June 2005 20:13 |
the 4agze/e51 conversion adds ~100kg over the 4age. cant say i noticed the weight difference when i did mine, all i noticed was the POWA...
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thats cause you drive like a girl  
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