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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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1piece tailshaft vs. 2 piece tailshaft
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Sun, 26 June 2005 13:55
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As my driveline is rumbling when i take off i thought now might be the time to start working on changing my diff.
I am still hunting down the parts to make a g series rear end, but it came to me today about what i do with the tailshaft that is in there.
the celica ra40 has a 2 piece tailshaft, but i am contemplating making a custom one piece. which brings me to the question.
what is the benefits and drawbacks of using a 1 piece tailshaft and also the benefits and drawbacks of a 2 piece tailshaft.
is it to do with driveline noise, or smoothness, or reliablilty, or something else entirely.
like why would you make a 2 piece tailshaft which just introduces another point of failure in the driveline and a point of power loss.
but why do people steer clear of 1 piece designs.
i tried a quick search under a few criteria but couldn't find anything relevant so if someone knows, i would love to know what is preferred or under what application is a specific type of tailshaft preferred.
cheers
barnsey
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 1piece tailshaft vs. 2 piece tailshaft
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Sun, 26 June 2005 17:16
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i beleive a 2 peice tailshaft is heavier.
also, id imagine the benefit of having a 2 peice would be that it could be designed as a weak point in the drive train, meaning that, instead of the diff blowing, the tailshaft could.
other than that, i have no F'ing clue 
Eldar.O.
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1piece tailshaft vs. 2 piece tailshaft
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Sun, 26 June 2005 18:41
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| barned01 wrote on Sun, 26 June 2005 23:25 |
like why would you make a 2 piece tailshaft which just introduces another point of failure in the driveline and a point of power loss.
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It reduces rear suspension unsprung weight.
It reduces tail shaft vibration problems at high speeds.
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Membership Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 1piece tailshaft vs. 2 piece tailshaft
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Mon, 27 June 2005 05:34
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2 piece tailshaft is shorter, for the same diameter and material 2 piece would be able to handle more power than a longer single piece of the same dimensions/material.
You can spin a two piece harder to to, when I over spun and snapped my single piece, It was because the tailshaft and wall thickness were two thin for my requirements and with a lot of rpm the tail shaft started to bow and then snapped. Wasn't good!!!
Yes with a two piece you have a centre bearing but this takes away unsprung weight from the diff and also give yoiu more room to run exhaust etc. As the shaft would be higher up.
I know run a huge 3 inch shaft single piece shaft with hilux uni's and have been dared to try and break it, but told I won't.
I hope that makes sense ask me to explain if you need me to
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 1piece tailshaft vs. 2 piece tailshaft
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Mon, 27 June 2005 08:09
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so if i get it right, despite the extra complexity of a 2 piece, there is less rotational force on it at high revs., less likely to buckle and be smoother.
however in saying that a single piece will be more than fine for 90 percent of applications.
can you tell the difference when driving a car if you have had both a 1 piece and a 2 piece tailshaft in it?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2005
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Re: 1piece tailshaft vs. 2 piece tailshaft
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Mon, 27 June 2005 13:46
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I think most if not all(can any one contradict me?) OEM RWD vehicles use 2 piece tailshafts.
The advantage in a production situation is supposedly that engine to diff alignment is not as critical as with a one piece tailshaft, both from a vibration and life of the universal joints point of view.
From my own experience going from a 2 piece to a 1 piece after changing a diff, the car was generally fine but hit a resonant frequency about 6300rpm then smoothed above 7000 which I assume rules out defective balancing of the tailshaft.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 1piece tailshaft vs. 2 piece tailshaft
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Mon, 27 June 2005 14:35
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| Suprspt wrote on Mon, 27 June 2005 23:46 |
I think most if not all(can any one contradict me?) OEM RWD vehicles use 2 piece tailshafts.
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The tailshaft in my ae71 is most certainly a one piece straight from the factory.
Eddie.
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1piece tailshaft vs. 2 piece tailshaft
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Mon, 27 June 2005 14:40
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| Big T wrote on Tue, 28 June 2005 00:05 |
The tailshaft in my ae71 is most certainly a one piece straight from the factory.
Eddie.
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As is my Corona.
The size of the car makes a difference (how long the tail shaft needs to be), and how performace tuned the car is.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2005
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Re: 1piece tailshaft vs. 2 piece tailshaft
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Mon, 27 June 2005 14:54
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I stand corrected, humble apologies 
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1piece tailshaft vs. 2 piece tailshaft
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Mon, 27 June 2005 17:22
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| Suprspt wrote on Tue, 28 June 2005 00:24 |
I stand corrected, humble apologies
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No need, you were mostly correct.
Just that smaller cheaper non-performance cars still use 1 piece.
Although, there isnt too many of these around that are not FWD these days 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 1piece tailshaft vs. 2 piece tailshaft
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Mon, 27 June 2005 22:15
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my 323 and my ta22 both have 1 piece tailshafts also
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 1piece tailshaft vs. 2 piece tailshaft
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Mon, 27 June 2005 22:38
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| Suprspt wrote on Mon, 27 June 2005 23:16 |
I think most if not all(can any one contradict me?) OEM RWD vehicles use 2 piece tailshafts.
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You are correct. MOST MODERN rwd cars use a 2 piecer. BA Falcon is a notable exception here ,and their Wagons/Territoy is speed limited to 180km/hr due to this.
Their tailshaft is alloy as well.
with a short wheelbase car like a AE86, 323 etc, a piece shaft is not such an issue, it is the higher powered/longer wheelbase car where it become more important.
It has NVH implcations as well.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
fairfield NSW
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 1piece tailshaft vs. 2 piece tailshaft
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Mon, 27 June 2005 23:06
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fyi: i dont think its legal (at all) to fit a 1 piece tailshaft on a car that had a 2 piece tailshaft.
my mechanic wouldnt fit one on and the engineer also said he wouldnt approve it.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2005
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Re: 1piece tailshaft vs. 2 piece tailshaft
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Tue, 28 June 2005 02:13
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Just something that might be of further interest - must have been about 96/97 era when I was doing the diff conversion and looking at the best way to put a watts link under the car. Had an opportunity to look under the WGR(I think!) supertaxi at Oran Park, it was running 2 piece - I mentioned to the engineer, that I spied in a transporter for one of the Ford teams a one piece item, why take the weight penalty?(everyone struggling to reach the minimum at the time)
I was expecting a comment about balance/vibration, etc - turned out it was simply the taishaft would hit the body using the 9" diff at full bump. So check your geometry if changing the diff!!
I'm still of the opinion that for a street application the 2 piece is easier to live with.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 1piece tailshaft vs. 2 piece tailshaft
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Wed, 29 June 2005 10:06
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I just spent the better part of a day going through all the ins and outs of tailshafts at Sydney Driveline Specialists.
Watched and photographed them build (from scratch) a few tailshafts (one being mine) and the full story and photos will be in a 4 page feature tech article in Performance Buildups Magazine in the next issue (due out Late July)
any specific questions you want answered - let me know...
saw some catastrophic failures too... usually due to HUMAN error..
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: 1piece tailshaft vs. 2 piece tailshaft
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Wed, 29 June 2005 10:18
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Hi,
| Jezza wrote on Tue, 28 June 2005 08:15 |
my 323 and my ta22 both have 1 piece tailshafts also
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Dunno about the 323, but I'm sure the GT TA22 uses a 2-piece tailshaft.
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Membership Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 1piece tailshaft vs. 2 piece tailshaft
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Wed, 29 June 2005 10:55
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thats where my two piece replacement shaft was made up.
I was extremly happy with the service, qualitly and expertise shown by the guys there and I recomend them to everyone.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 1piece tailshaft vs. 2 piece tailshaft
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Thu, 30 June 2005 15:51
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Yep,
I posted on PF asking about where to get a tailshaft made up in sydney and they were the most reccomended place.
They are at 10 Reservoir Ave Greenacre (02) 9790-7433
www.sydneydriveline.com
Ted is the bloke to talk to - real nice guy and was more than happy to answer my dumb questions, let me take as many pics as I needed and quick to offer advice etc.
Mine is worth about $500 (incl GST) - I got a Heavy duty Steel 3" Single piece with a custom made yoke and the top quality spicer uni's. But they also make Aluminium and Carbon fibre ones. They have some HUUUUGE mothers out that that I could barely lift up the uni joint, let alone the completed shaft
Here are a couple of pics of mine being precision balanced...
and the other pic is all the basic parts that go to make up a common one piece.
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