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Location:
melb
Registered:
May 2002
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petrol $ going up up
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Sun, 26 June 2005 19:03
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it is estimated that the price for a barrel of oil is going to reach up to $300 within the next 5 years....
fyi its at $60 today and was at $30 two years ago......
do the math and start saving for a battery powered billycart..
looks like its requiem for the internal combustion engine .... watch those resale values drop... 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 00:28
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that'll mean it will cost $200 bux to refill a corolla.
40*5.
man, this sux.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 00:55
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time to start thinking about running methanol/ethanol..... maybe i can finally put my sugarcane to some good use (120 acres of sugar plantation)..... now all i need is a good still.... fuel and moonshine... what could be better??
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 00:59
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| chrisss wrote on Mon, 27 June 2005 05:03 |
it is estimated that the price for a barrel of oil is going to reach up to $300 within the next 5 years....
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Estimated by whom? References please.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 03:17
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more accurate gossip:
.. Earlier, the world's most powerful bankers said they expected crude oil to remain near record highs of $US60 a barrel for several years, eroding some strength from a world economy already vulnerable to upsets...
(from: http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200506/s14011 61.htm)
and
... Everyone knows that oil will not last for ever. The world is not going to move from current levels of production to zero overnight; there will be a long process of gradual decline. Using techniques originally developed by M. King Hubbert to assess the profile of US oil production, industry experts can estimate, with a high degree of certainty, the high point of global output - or peak oil, as it is known.
Hubbert calculated this with accuracy for the US, pinpointing the 1970s as the zenith of production. For the North Sea, peak oil was at the end of the 1990s.
The world as a whole has yet to reach that point. But before you breathe a sigh of relief, consider this. If the experts are right, global peak oil could arrive in 2008...
(from: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,15 15240,00.html)
and
...Motorists will have to get used to petrol prices of more than $1 a litre for many years if contracts for the future price of crude oil are correct.
The international benchmark price for crude reached a record $US60 a barrel late last week and the market for the future delivery of oil suggests the price will stay near these levels until 2010 and beyond. The price for oil delivery in 2012 is about $US55.
(from: http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/steep-petrol-p rices-locked-in-for-years/2005/06/26/1119724526917 .html - registration might be required)
[Updated on: Mon, 27 June 2005 03:21]
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 03:28
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must buy 4 cylinder or less ..
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 03:34
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meh my 4 cylinder drinks as much as an eight, so may as well get one and have some fun while i can 
These so called estimates are a toss by paranoid wankers. It ain't gonna happen. The only problem at the moment causing the massive price increase it alot of asian nations becoming a devloping to developed nation ie China Vietnam etc etc. Because of this they are now demanding a lot more oil but the point is once they are devloped i can't see it continueing to rise at the rapid rate.
And the truth is aus produces 70% of its own oil anyway and produces this for well under the wrold price however in its wisdom the aus government quite a long time ago i might ad signed a contract with OPEC saying that the aus oil producers will sell at market price and not undercut the OPEC producers.
Gay but shit happens so deal with it.
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Location:
Newcastle, Australia
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 05:26
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Time to buy an old bomb and work on my water fuel technology lol
Have a tank of rainwater in the garage with electrodes in it, and solar panels on the roof providing electricity, the energy causes electrolysis and converts the water into Hydrogen and Oxygen gases, pump that into some gas cylinders, drop a fresh one into the car each morning before going to work, mmm free fuel!
Wonder how well a 1JZ would run on hydrogen...
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Location:
melb
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 06:51
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| Ribfeast wrote on Mon, 27 June 2005 15:26 |
Have a tank of rainwater in the garage with electrodes in it, and solar panels on the roof providing electricity, the energy causes electrolysis and converts the water into Hydrogen and Oxygen gases, pump that into some gas cylinders, drop a fresh one into the car each morning before going to work, mmm free fuel!
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Hmmm. Pity you wouldn't have enough fuel to reverse out of the driveway, but apart form that it's a nice idea. 
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 06:58
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now if the world stopped using plastic and went back to more natural materials.. we'd save a shit load of oil 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 07:11
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| oldcorollas wrote on Mon, 27 June 2005 16:58 |
now if the world stopped using plastic and went back to more natural materials.. we'd save a shit load of oil
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word!
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Location:
melb
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 07:18
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and that'd make it more expensive good solution, and err the govmint already taxes petty to the tune of 60-70% how much more do you want
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Location:
melb
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 07:26
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if u increase the price demand drops......
it would force people to use it more wisely ..... its a bitch in the short term but its better to slow it down now than have it bite you big time latter.......
if we lower tax now we will avoid making the absolutly nessesary changes until its to late....
cars could/should be using half what they do right now....
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 07:30
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the demand for petrol will basically never drop below a point its like alcohol addictive or a necessity like bread would be a better analogy.
Simple economics no matter how much petty costs ppl are still gonna buy it, they might drive a little more economically for a week but the fact is for all the bitching and moaning about petrol prices car sales are at an all time high and V8's in holdens are selling better than ever go figure.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 07:33
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who cares, let our kids work it out
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Location:
melb
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 08:51
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like i said earlier... time to start thinking about e85 (85% ethanol 15% petrol).... my family has a cane plantation so getting sugar to ferment/distill isn't a problem... I was actually thinking about running the 1uz on ethanol tolerant injectors/fuel rail/fuel lines + have an aftermarket ecu capable of adjusting maps dependant on fuel types..... That way, i can distill my own fuel...
in the states, they have cars from the factory that are e85 listed... these cars can run on straight petrol all the way to 15% petrol and 85% ethanol.... why don't we have that here?
Anyhow, i figured it was either this or go straight vapour injected LPG... either way, seems more likely than an electrolysis setup like Ribfeast described hehe.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 09:51
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the problem with etahnol is it is very hard to make 100% pure ie anhydrous without water and this is where damage is done to engines. Though brazil which does actually get some commonwhores exported to it with the needed mods has up to 30% ethanol 70% petrol mixes.
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Location:
Newcastle, Australia
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 11:53
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I know the cressy uses a lot of fuel, but surely I'd get 50kms or so on a tank of the hydrogen or something...worth looking into
Maybe buy an old rotor and modify it to run on hydrogen. Main issue would be to stop the innards corroding (burning hydrogen makes water vapour).
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Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 12:07
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i think for a water powered car, you will find that u will need a shitload of electricity to ionize the water... prolly making it not so cost effective in the bigger picture
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 12:15
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that's it, time for me to make an electric car, must find powerful japanese electric motor. Put in light car, every body panel to be a solar panel, collect as many li-lion laptop battery's as i can get. (at least until fuel cells hit the mainstream) and work on a zero point magnetic motor generator 
or buy a motorbike and keep the supra for special occasions.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 13:08
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ahhh... that was back in the days.... with all we know today, it isn't too difficult to get 99.9% pure ethanol.... a good still will get you to around 99.5%.... the rest can be removed by soaking these pebble-like things (cant remember exactly what they were or called) and it absorbs the rest of the water... then you remove them and bake in the sun to reuse another day...
that leaves you with practically 100% alcohol.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 16:02
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| oldcorollas wrote on Mon, 27 June 2005 16:58 |
now if the world stopped using plastic and went back to more natural materials.. we'd save a shit load of oil
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I work in the pckaging industry and we are starting to use alot of different substrates in the place of plastic, however the alternatives are substaintially more expensive.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 19:12
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| chrisss wrote on Mon, 27 June 2005 17:26 |
if u increase the price demand drops......
it would force people to use it more wisely ..... its a bitch in the short term but its better to slow it down now than have it bite you big time latter.......
if we lower tax now we will avoid making the absolutly nessesary changes until its to late....
cars could/should be using half what they do right now....
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This would only work if we have some "good & acceptable" public transport, and we don't! So raising the tax, less demand, benefits? You won't collect much more tax, (as demand have decreased) disadvantages? this will slow the economy right down becoz of crap public transport, people spend more time trying to go somewhere (big loss), many may choose to stay home unless they need to go to work, not to mention the decrease in sales of new cars (more jobs cut, more factories closes), and more public disobeyance as they're already complaining about the high tax dips currently in petrol prices..
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Location:
Newcastle, Australia
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 20:52
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Yeah thats why you use solar (or even nuclear) power to do the electrolysis at home, rather than in your car. Your house becomes the petrol station. The main problem with hydrogen is storing enough in your car to go long distances.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 22:25
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how about using the hydrogen (via electrolosis) to just supplement the petrol? surely even a 20% reduction in petrol usage could be substantial across the board.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 23:24
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I have seen some plans for an onboard Hydrogen generator. Don't know if it will work or not but I havn't had the time to make one to try. I can e-mail the plans to anybody that is interested in them. Send an e-mail to brendanteck@gmail.com and I will send the plans to you.
BT.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Mon, 27 June 2005 23:29
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| Ribfeast wrote on Tue, 28 June 2005 06:52 |
Yeah thats why you use solar (or even nuclear) power to do the electrolysis at home, rather than in your car.
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The point I was trying to make is that (a) electrolysis is quite inefficient so huge amounts of electricity would be required to fill your hydrogen tank, and (b) solar panels have no hope of delivering this much electricity, unless you live out in the sticks and can afford a huge solar array (and live in a sunny climate).
Of course none of this would be a problem if you had your own nuclear reactor at home, but I think home nuclear power is a while off yet.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Tue, 28 June 2005 00:01
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Might be bullshit but I was told rotaries can run on hydrogen with no modification needed. Any truth to this?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Tue, 28 June 2005 00:51
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AFAIK any internal combustion engine can run on hydrogen without serious modification, apart from the fuel system of course.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Tue, 28 June 2005 02:55
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yay were fu*king screwed! 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Tue, 28 June 2005 03:56
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we're not fucking screwed.
theirs a company in russia that has been experimenting with deep earth oil drilling and they've found that the oil well's do not dry up, that they are rejuvinated from beneath the earths crust
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Location:
sydney,nsw.oz.
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Tue, 28 June 2005 04:42
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| Intensevil wrote on Tue, 28 June 2005 13:56 |
theirs a company in russia that has been experimenting with deep earth oil drilling and they've found that the oil well's do not dry up, that they are rejuvinated from beneath the earths crust
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Where did you hear that ?
Sounds too good to be true.
And what happens to the earth when all the oil has been sucked out of the middle of it ?
Does the earth cave in ?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Tue, 28 June 2005 06:16
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hehe, somehow i don't see the earth caving in....
also, since when have we ever taken anything the russians have done seriously since chernobyl??
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Tue, 28 June 2005 06:23
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well the oil we are using up is not being replaced it takes millions of years for fossil fuel to form, all the russian are doing is drilling deeper and finding more oil reserves they are not replacing current ones they are new reserves.
On another note if we stop using fossil fuels and the earth lives for another 100million years they'll have another supply of them and it'll be us lol
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Tue, 28 June 2005 06:39
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thats the thing, the easy access oil reserves do not top themselves up. but these deep sub terranian ones the russians are getting at dont run out, they keep refilling themselves from beneath the earths crust
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Tue, 28 June 2005 07:18
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you ppl have also forgotten about "fuel cells" (something that was being done at UNSW also).. i'm sketchy on the details, but if someone can be bothered looking it up...
basically generates electricity but doesn't use electrolysis
oh.. here ya go
http://www.fuelcells.org/
http://www.howstuffworks.com/fuel-cell.htm
yeah, thats the main prob.. we have become so accustomed to cheap oil prices that we do not want to pay more for our packaging, our clothes (synthetic fibres anyone?), our carpet... look around and see how much plastic is around... petrol is one thing, but i would think that more plastic is being generated than petrol consumed?
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Tue, 28 June 2005 07:32
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oh and far as bitching about cost.. the electroplating solution i use is $1000 per Litre.... you use maybe.. 500mls at a time for a while.. unless it fucks up and you have to throw it out
then it gets expensive 
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Location:
Newcastle, Australia
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Tue, 28 June 2005 07:42
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A dual fuel system would definitely be the way to go. I'd be interested in seeing a study into how much energy would be required. Electrolysis is pretty inefficient but if mounted solar tracking solar panels on the roof of your house you should get enough to make at least some gas Even just use it to charge batteries up, and swap the batteries in your Prius each night lol
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Location:
NSW, East Coast
Registered:
July 2003
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Location:
NSW, East Coast
Registered:
July 2003
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Tue, 28 June 2005 10:23
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hahaa 
watching the news today...they said townsville has the cheapest fuel
suck
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: petrol $ going up up
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Tue, 28 June 2005 10:47
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| FKN16V wrote on Tue, 28 June 2005 19:15 |
Russians just used a pencil.
I say, Russians smart fukers.
+ they drink the real spirit, Vodka!
Cheers
Steve
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works until the graphite starts fucking with your instruments
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