| Author | Topic |
|---|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Mon, 03 June 2002 00:38
|
 |
I heard that a guy got busted the other day for 2 things: an oversized pod filter, and a BOV.
my question is, is tehre such thing as an air filter that's too big, and is any BOV illegal, or just the loud ones? (not counting plumb-backs)
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Mon, 03 June 2002 01:54
|
|
In QLD, any BOV that vents to atmosphere is illegal. It's probably the same in other states.
|
|
|
Location:
Arthurs Creek, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Mon, 03 June 2002 02:09
|
|
I have been following a thread on a similar thread on MELBCCR.
A few things:
A mate of mine was pulled over and they say the pod filter, it wasn't 'oversized' as such, or wasn't declared to be by the cops, but it defected his car or rather he coped a fine for having it. He had already been defected a few weeks earlier and still had the roadworthy certificate with him, so they just fined him instead. So yes, they will fine you for having a pod.
As far as the cops and the epa are concerned, pod filters add unnecessary noise nad change the exhaust characteristics of the car (I fail to see how, the ECU still monitors the incoming air).
Similarly, BOV'S that vent to the atmosphere, I definately know that they are illegal, because they once again add excess noise and change the exhaust characteristics once again. This is all information that i have heard directly from a cop. The cop also went on to say that BOV's change the exhaust characteristics by bypass in the cat, which as we all know doesn't happen, because BOV's have nothing to do with the cat. I think he was getting the wastegate and the BOV mixed up.
As far as wastegates go, it's clearly obvious that wastegates that vent to the atmosphere are clearly illegal, for the above reason, they bypass the cat. Personally I wouldn't want one that vents to the atmosphere sitting right below where the air that I breath comes into the car. hrm, no thanks.
however, on the same note, and this one I haven't heard direct from the cops, wastegates that dump straight into the normal exhaust system, I would doubt have any legality problems, all they do is change the exhaust characteristics of flow, not the actually make up of the exhaust.
anyhow,
my 2c
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Mon, 03 June 2002 02:57
|
|
wow
in that case they could slap a fine on EVERY car with any mod in oz ... what member of a car club doesnb't have a pod installed?
and BOVs .. every wog and riceboy has one
I sense revenue raising
|
|
|
Location:
Arthurs Creek, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Mon, 03 June 2002 05:50
|
|
be that as it may, they still have the laws there..
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
 Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Mon, 03 June 2002 06:48
|
|
Any sports exhaust will change the flow characteristics so are all of them illegal  .I understand that venting BOV to the atmosphere and the issues behind it.....Even though different rules must apply to trucks.
My car is loud and is a driving defect but would be safer & runs cleaner then most.I was pulled over by an RBT unit.Whilst they were busting my balls,checking my car,plates,licsence etc They had pulled over a guy in a Blue Bird which I could see his right foot on the accelerator through the rust hole in his door.He was told to have a nice night  I know Im blabbing on but it shits me hard. 
Anyone know the legals about compressor surge....because my car sounds like a pod racer echoing....very LOUD!
Anhar Khamas
GT4 Group A
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Mon, 03 June 2002 13:29
|
|
hehehe
whenever I pull out of RBTs the cops always wave frantically and tell me to slow down
it's not that I pull out especially fast.... just that my car always sounds like it's going fast, a mix of engine noise and exhaust noise.
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Tue, 04 June 2002 00:22
|
|
i seen a cop pull over a skyline and told him to open up his bonned.... i saw a BOV ... and i am SURE he got defected for it..
Middle of George Street too... so yeah... just remember, they arent gonna pull u over for no reason... just make sure u dont pssshhht i front on them and no problems ! 
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Tue, 04 June 2002 01:33
|
|
hey les.... when are you next going to be at a club event?
I'd like to ahave a look at the 1G in an RA65, and have a chat to you about costs/proceedure etc..
|
|
|
Location:
Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Tue, 04 June 2002 02:08
|
|
can someone please correct my understanding of BOV's and wastegates (as a person that dislikes anything other than N/A cars)... i dotn think my understanding is correct... but here it is
Wastegate: Vents the exhust output from turbine back into exhust system (or to air). (or is this called a dumper? cos thats what i call it??!?!)
BOV: a costly device that sits between the turbine and inlet manifold on the turbine air output that is adtuated to stop inordinate amouns of pressure being backed up at the manifold?
|
|
|
Location:
Arthurs Creek, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Tue, 04 June 2002 03:51
|
|
You are sort of right from what I can gather.
The wastegate sits parallel to the turbine housing on the exhaust side of the turbo. It is the device that opens when a certain boost pressure is reached and makes the exhaust gasses bypass the turbo. This in turn means that the turbo will not accelerate any more than it already has and consequently not make any more boost becuase the propellant is bypassing it.
As for the BOV, you are right about that one, but in actual fact, you'll find that BOV's are cheaper than wastegates. EG My BOV cost about $360. My Wastegate clocks in at $1250 including the gas regulator.
However 'ricey' you may think a BOV is, it actually prolongs the life of your turbo by ensuring that it doesn't spin too hard with a large amount of backpressure. This can be known to turn a turbine shaft into licorice.
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Tue, 04 June 2002 04:08
|
|
DRAVEN.....
hmmm i should be at the next monthly meeting ?!?! thats if i am no tooo bz - but yeah the monthly meeting at the church !!
i can give u a down low on it.. 
|
|
|
Location:
Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Tue, 04 June 2002 06:32
|
|
thanks for that... but dont turboed car came standard with an internal wastegate instaed of a BOV?? cos there isnt the typical "phhhssstttt" on standard turbo cars... or do the standard car shove the excess charge into the exhust to help wiht the EPA also??
so i think i get it.. the waste gate sits b4 the turbine.. and when sufficient intake gas pressure is achieved... the wastegat passes all exhust gasses around turbo to the rest of the exhust system?
|
|
|
Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Tue, 04 June 2002 06:57
|
|
The wastegate is more a valve that vents excess exhaust gas around the turbo, not all the gas. If you saw how big a standard wastegate is, you'd understand a bit better.
So the wastegate regulates the speed the turbo spins at which determins the boost pressure (pressure of air being pumped into the engine by the turbo).
A BOV only opens (goes 'psssscchhhhhtt') when the throttle is suddenly closed and the pressurised air going into the engine all of a sudden has no where to go, but backward through the turbo and out the air filter, which causes the turbo to stress a bit, and also means the turbo has to spin all the way up to its max speed (as regulated by the wastegate) which means a bit of lag.
So the BOV allows the turbo to keep spinning with the throttle closed, as it vents the boost pressure outside, or in the case of standard cars with BOV, back into the intake and into the turbo (so that's why you can't hear them).
[Updated on: Tue, 04 June 2002 06:59]
|
|
|
Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Tue, 04 June 2002 09:11
|
|
Yatesie,
My Soarer twin turbo comes with 2 wastegates (one per turbo) and a single BOV. They are all factory items. My car didn't make any "Pshhht" noise with the standard (and very restricive) air filter. K&N pod filter lets all the sound out now, so I now get a mild pshht noise when I back off the accelerator.
|
|
|
Location:
gold coast
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Tue, 04 June 2002 11:25
|
|
|
Go the screamer pipe!!! They sound Mad at high rpm.
|
|
|
Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Tue, 04 June 2002 11:30
|
|
|
C'mon Pete, now you gotta explain to everyone what a screamer pipe is..... don't just leave it up to someone else!
|
|
|
Location:
gold coast
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Tue, 04 June 2002 15:01
|
|
Screamers rock!!!
The best fun you'll have when lining someone up...
Picture this...
Cruising along in your turbo car minding your business. Not too much noise... just the 3 inch exhaust burbling along...
Cool dude in his (insert cool dude turbo car here) pulls along side, looks over and gives it a little boot then backs off. Psshhttt. I'm soooooo kewl man... I've got a BOV. 
You look back and do the same. Psshttt. Just try it mate. 
You round the next bend and spot a nice straight bit of road.... errr track I mean. 
Big fella alongside opens it up... as do you. Your fairly even... but yours is still boosting.
Just as you start to pull ahead you hit max boost and the wastegate opens and ALMIGHTY GREAT hell breaks out as your screamer pipe dumps all the excess exhaust straight to the ground.
You look over just in time to see his gobsmacked expression of  WTF was that as you roar away into the distance.
Once he's caught up to you, you can guarantee he'll want another run. Just so he can hear it again. Resist the urge and find another victim... 
And to keep with the topic: Screamers are illegal. 
|
|
|
Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Tue, 04 June 2002 15:42
|
|
Oh, and just to clarify (for those who haven't heard OF a scremer pipe, let alone HEARD one before), what do they sound like in comparison to an atmo BOV? 
|
|
|
Location:
Livo
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Tue, 04 June 2002 15:44
|
|
|
Are these screamer pips easy to spot?
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Wed, 05 June 2002 00:35
|
|
|
Imagine a really loud BOV that starts bellowing when the car hits max boost and just keep that noise ringing for a little while. Makes it worse when they point it straight to the ground
|
|
|
Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Wed, 05 June 2002 00:49
|
|
Bigfella: They sound very similar too a normal exhaust disconnected before the catalytic converter. Loud... Really loud. Best part is that the exhaust sounds normal (ie muffled) until you hit max boost. Only when the wastegate opens will it be loud. They don't really sound like a BOV at all. BOV sound is air rushing. Screamer sound is exhaust dumping...
Zman: Depends where your wastegate is and how long your screamer is. Wouldn't be too hard to hide though if ya gave it some thought....
|
|
|
Location:
Livo
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Wed, 05 June 2002 03:01
|
|
OoO.. sounds like fun,
can i get one of these for my stock turbo (from rb20)? or do i need something bigger like a t4?
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Wed, 05 June 2002 03:06
|
|
|
Its harder without an external wastegate, but in saome mag, Japanese Motorsport had one jimmied up for people with internal wastegates like yours.
|
|
|
Location:
Arthurs Creek, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Wed, 05 June 2002 06:28
|
|
That's it, you guys have convinced me, I'm gonna put a 'screamer pipe' on the end of my 46mm wastegate.
Hrm, the Biggest Turbo Smart BOV, a brand new 600hp Roller bearing Garrett Turbo, and a tial 46mm Wastegate with dump pipe and screamer pipe.
If you ask me, that's some serious turbo running gear (And over $4000 worth of gear to start with.)
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne.
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Wed, 05 June 2002 06:41
|
|
Any exhaust shop can make you up a dump pipe with a screamer pipe venting to atmo....its just a case of matching the flange and lining up the welds to where the wastegate exits on stock turbos.
Yes your RB20 will be able to have one.
And another term for an external westgate is "pop off valve". not to be confused with BOVs.
Yes ive heard two TD05 High mounts each runnin 20psi with external wastgates on an GTR.... lets just say "get your ear muffs out"
The sound of a screamer pipe is fknhorn, and everybody with a T should have one!
Any bov here in Melbourne that vents to atmo are illegal. This is a confusing issue, as some cars with AFM meters, run rich when the BOV opens up to discharge the air to atmo, thus all the unburned fuel gets dumped out the zorst ...often with a loud bang and with plenty of black smoke, obviously the EPA aint gonna like this. But then again MAP equiped cars run fine with BOVs, and all your venting is inlet air... cops and EPA are ghey.
And yes most cars are equiped with BOVs, the only reason you cant hear the ghey PSHHHT noise is because they vent back into the inlet. OFten with the addition of a POD filter, you can hear the BOV recirculating back into the inlet...slightly softer than venting to atmo.
Pods are illegal here to, fark i was told any mod that isnt factory has to be suplied with an engineers certificate. It makes sense though, but if a TMU dont like the look of you, their gonna dick you for something...
|
|
|
Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Wed, 05 June 2002 13:06
|
|
Stradlater: That setup will rock! Only thing I could suggest is a ball bearing turbo instead of a roller bearing one. A minor point but they do spool up faster. (and cost heaps more)
$4000! Make sure you don't kill it  What motor is it goin on?
|
|
|
Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: from "BOV's and wastegates - legality
|
Wed, 05 June 2002 14:37
|
|
|
The T-28 Garrett (320hp) is a ball bearing design, and it's just enough to give the ol' RAV a bit of a nudge - 112% more of a nudge @ 9Psi. Figures given show that it takes the stock engine from a 96kW peak to (potentially) a 204kW peak output (not sure if that figure is flywheel or wheel output).
|
|
|
