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mxchris69
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crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 06:38 Go to next message
hey a friend of mine crashed his car on the weekend and he had to go to hospital. the problem is that he had a few cones b4 the accident he wasnt that stoned the police and ambulance couldnt even notice. he had to have a blood tests (it said for alcohol) but does any1 know if they would also test this for weed?
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Lench
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 06:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
most likely
sucks to be him
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CrUZsida
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 06:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I hope he gets what he deserves
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Mookie
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 07:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
poor guy!

I'm pretty sure they will pick up anything that isn't meant to be there.
with a bit of luck it wasn't enough to show up but i very much doubt it.
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bigg willie style
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 07:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
of course they will test for weed. they will test for all drugs, so if hes taken anything else that will show up too. good bye license.
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Cool1
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 08:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mookie wrote on Sun, 03 July 2005 17:29


with a bit of luck it wasn't enough to show up but i very much doubt it.

Laughing Laughing Laughing You only have to smell it for it to be in your blood. I'd say hes screwed, And I say good. I have no time for scumbags that want to take drugs and then drive on public roads. Pity he didnt take himself out Rolling Eyes
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unforgiven
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 09:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Your a dickhead cool. I thought they had to test blood specifically to detect pot? Not just a general blood test.
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Cool1
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 09:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
unforgiven wrote on Sun, 03 July 2005 19:21

Your a dickhead cool.

Your probably right. But I can live with it Smile
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draven
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 09:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
eh, I'm sorta with Shane here. if youy drink/take drugs and drive, you deserve all that you get. if that involves writing yourself off, then I can't say I'd have an awful lot of sympathy.
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BOCKA
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 10:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
weed stays in blood for ages so if he had has hit it up not long before that then id say itll still be in his blood
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joorsh
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I think Bocka is right. From what I've read on blood tests, the active component in pot can be detected up to 4 weeks after consumption. It really hangs around.

In that regard, he may be able to get off by saying he took it days before the crash. Even so, I'm with Drav & Cool1 on the sympathy side of things. The only people who deserve sympathy are those unfortunate enough to be crashed into by idiots under the influence.

[Updated on: Sun, 03 July 2005 12:35]

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dimmy77_03
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 13:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Weed can be picked up in your system for up to 3 months. I used to get tested after state & national comps....

It sucks to be him, but if he's that stupid to drive after punching cones, he deserves it. Coz it'd still have an effect on him
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nightdevil
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
it wasnt a sss pulsar that crashed near loftus on sat night by any chance???

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Dust
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 14:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mxchris69 wrote on Sun, 03 July 2005 16:38

hey a friend of mine crashed his car ..... he had a few cones b4 the accident he wasnt that stoned...



Stoned enough to crash though, no sympathy from me, just glad he didnt injure or kill any innocent bystander. Driving stoned is just as bad as driving drunk. While I dont wish harm to anyone, you have to face the consequences when you act retarded and drive drunk/stoned.

I am going to jump on Cool1's wagon here Smile
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xolent
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 14:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
As Carl Barron would say:

You're fucked Laughing
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thu187
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 16:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I sorta feel sorry for the guy. We all have mates that are pot heads (or potheads yourselves lol) that can have cones without it affecting them. They're still normal and everything.

If the guy was like that then how do you know it was the weed that caused him to crash? What if he was just plain not concentrating? Just something to think about..

Also the excuse about taking weed a couple of days earlier is gold. I never would have thought of that Razz
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74ROLLA
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 21:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
And if he's positive, there goes the insurance . . . .
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Cool1
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 22:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thu187 wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 02:17

We all have mates that are pot heads (or potheads yourselves lol) that can have cones without it affecting them.

I sat here for about six minutes trying to think up a response to this, and this is all I could come up with:
Can you take the cock without it affecting you?
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rob_RA40
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 22:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cool1 wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 08:03


I sat here for about six minutes trying to think up a response to this, and this is all I could come up with:
Can you take the cock without it affecting you?



ohh man thats gold Laughing
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Big T
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 23:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cool1 wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 08:03

thu187 wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 02:17

We all have mates that are pot heads (or potheads yourselves lol) that can have cones without it affecting them.

I sat here for about six minutes trying to think up a response to this, and this is all I could come up with:
Can you take the cock without it affecting you?



Laughing

And rob_RA40.... AWESOME avatar mate!!
"What about me? I made the wigs! And i was pushing the trolley!"
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rob_RA40
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Re: crashing a car Sun, 03 July 2005 23:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
haha cheers, i didnt think anyone would pick it,

"dont overlook my butt, reaping burns alot of calories"
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bbaacchhyy
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Re: crashing a car Mon, 04 July 2005 02:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thu187 wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 01:47

We all have mates that are pot heads (or potheads yourselves lol) that can have cones without it affecting them. They're still normal and everything.




If it doesn't effect you, what is the point Rolling Eyes

I'm with Shane, CrUZida and others. His fault, no sympathy, and should think a bit more next time.
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oldcorollas
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Re: crashing a car Mon, 04 July 2005 03:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
what sucks even more is that if there are any illegal substances found, his car insurance (if he has any) is VOID. if he hit another car, he is TOTALLY liable for their damage also, as well as his own.

anyone know if CTP is also voided by illegal drug use? that would really really suck if he injured anyone else, and also his current injuries may not be covered..

sucks that he had to go to hospital, but i have no empathy or sympathy. maybe the medical bills will cause him to rethink his recreational activities Rolling Eyes


as a side note, a lecturer at my uni crashed into a merc and BMW while drunk. lost licence for 6 or 12 months, but also had to pay the $100K damage bill, as his insurance refused to pay... not pretty..
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Mookie
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Re: crashing a car Mon, 04 July 2005 03:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
It's like beer.
one might will have no effect where as 4 or 5 might.
it's the same with cones.
ppl who drink alot need more to feel the effect
and ppl who smoke cones alot would need more to get stoned that other ppl.

he could have had the cones at brekfast time and crashed at dinner time ?
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Shraka
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Re: crashing a car Mon, 04 July 2005 03:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I've never met a pothead who I could honestly say I liked as a person.

I'm with Cool1, No sympathy. If you wanna do that kinda thing then I don't realy care, but stay off the roads and stay away from me.

And as bbaacchhyy said, if it "doesn't effect him" then why does he bother? Also, I've seen some people who weren't affected by alchohol. LOL. Sure they look alright, but try getting them to do anything that requires speed and co-ordination.
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L G Colorado
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Re: crashing a car Mon, 04 July 2005 04:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I know of people who have injected wu zi, and whilst driving home go four wheeling off cliff faces in the Kentucky ranges. I tell ya, there's some crazy folks out there. Surprised

We have a couple of vigilantes who patrol the highways after dark for drug infected strangers however you can't be everywhere at once. I tell ya, there's nothing more sobering than the aftermath of a wrecked Silverado at the bottom of a cliff face and thinking to myself, gee whiz, that was some crash for damn sure.Sad
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ke382TG
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Re: crashing a car Mon, 04 July 2005 05:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

he had a few cones b4 the accident he wasnt that stoned the police and ambulance couldnt even notice.


They would have noticed the long pauses between them asking a question and him answering it, to which they may have assumed a head injury but when he would have finished all his sentences with "maaannn" they would have known he was a stoner maaannnn.

Where the hell would a stoner need to drive anyway? They can just walk as they are rarely in a hurry Rolling Eyes

If you are not switched on and alert then you shouldn't be driving, and this is only for the sake of other road users.

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Skip
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Re: crashing a car Mon, 04 July 2005 06:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
How stoned was he?

If Pot is legal in your state like alcohol maybe you should be allowed to have a certain amount present in your blood stream, just like alcohol????????????????????????????
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Toobs
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Re: crashing a car Mon, 04 July 2005 08:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ke382TG wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 15:43


Where the hell would a stoner need to drive anyway? They can just walk as they are rarely in a hurry Rolling Eyes



Munchee's?

I don't understand why people drive whilst under the influence of performance degrading drugs... actually I don't understand why people take them full stop.
Does anyone enjoy walking around acting like they have brain damage???
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verbatim210
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Re: crashing a car Mon, 04 July 2005 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
what about when i ran my car into
a pole in the wet, any sympathy
for me? no drugs it was just
purely to learn teach myself and a
bit of thrill.

its those freakin initial D
movies!!! makes you think u can
drift and shit
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xolent
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Re: crashing a car Mon, 04 July 2005 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
verbatim210 wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 19:57

what about when i ran my car into
a pole in the wet, any sympathy
for me? no drugs it was just
purely to learn teach myself and a
bit of thrill.

its those freakin initial D
movies!!! makes you think u can
drift and shit


Yes you got sympathy. Get over it, boo hoo. There will be more.
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Dust
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Re: crashing a car Mon, 04 July 2005 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
verbatim210 wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 19:57

what about when i ran my car into
a pole in the wet, any sympathy
for me? no drugs it was just
purely to learn teach myself and a
bit of thrill.

its those freakin initial D
movies!!! makes you think u can
drift and shit



Stupidity is worse then drugs
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verbatim210
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Re: crashing a car Mon, 04 July 2005 13:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
shoulda kept my mouth shut
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ae86drift
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Re: crashing a car Mon, 04 July 2005 13:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dust wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 23:39

verbatim210 wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 19:57

what about when i ran my car into
a pole in the wet, any sympathy
for me? no drugs it was just
purely to learn teach myself and a
bit of thrill.

its those freakin initial D
movies!!! makes you think u can
drift and shit



Stupidity is worse then drugs


Laughing

quoted for truth
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RWDboy
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Re: crashing a car Mon, 04 July 2005 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
He 'wasnt that stoned' yet he crashed the car? The reason that there is little tolerance for being bent when driving is because it's a contributing factor in active safety (the ability to avoid an accident). I'm not saying that because he was slightly stonger he crashed his car, but you can never be sure that it wasn't a part of the problem. I hope he gets better, I hope he loses his license, and I hope he learns to treat his lungs/brain with more respect and when he has the time and capacity for more complex thought I hope he learns to be a more responsible road user.
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thu187
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Re: crashing a car Mon, 04 July 2005 18:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bbaacchhyy wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 12:55

thu187 wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 01:47

We all have mates that are pot heads (or potheads yourselves lol) that can have cones without it affecting them. They're still normal and everything.




If it doesn't effect you, what is the point Rolling Eyes

I'm with Shane, CrUZida and others. His fault, no sympathy, and should think a bit more next time.



I agree that it's his fault. I never said it wasn't.
I said we have mates that are potheads that can have one or two cones without it affecting them. What's the point you ask? Because they are trying to get ripped (obviously). It takes them 5 or 6 or however many to get ripped. All I was saying is that it takes them longer to get ripped, so for the first few they are unaffected.
I don't seem to recall saying they take cones for the purpose of being unaffected. Now I can roll my eyes at you ... ------> Rolling Eyes
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thu187
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Re: crashing a car Mon, 04 July 2005 18:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mookie wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 13:16

It's like beer.
one might will have no effect where as 4 or 5 might.
it's the same with cones.
ppl who drink alot need more to feel the effect
and ppl who smoke cones alot would need more to get stoned that other ppl.



Thanks mookie for understanding what I was trying to say.

And cool1, it took me about 6 seconds to come to the conclusion that you are a smart arse tool.

After 6 minutes what was on your mind? The cock! Laughing
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Cool1
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Re: crashing a car Mon, 04 July 2005 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
What was in my mine was the cock tearing you a new bung hole.
And if it took you 6 seconds to come to the conclusion that i'm a smart arse tool, your a lot slower than the other people in this thread thought! Everyone else came to this conclusion about 3 years ago Confused
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Rainey
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Re: crashing a car Mon, 04 July 2005 23:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Laughing

I'm with the Mr Mackay's in the thread and would like to say drugs are bad, mmmkay?
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Corona RT142
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Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 00:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the guy is a fucktard simple and plain. There is no excuse for drink or drug driving, stoners will generally drive slower but there reaction times are shot to bits too.
None of this bullshit about it didn't affect him, any alcohol or drug for that matter in any amount affects the way our body functions, and hence affects the way we drive.
Do the crime pay the time.
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mxchris69
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Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 00:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
corona u r a dickhead. just because u r the only person in cambeltown who is to afraid to smoke cones dont mean u can talk it up like u know everything about it i dont care if u got an A in ur health class u ownt know shit about it untill u actually get balls to try it.
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Merudo
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Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 00:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mxchris69 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2005 10:08

corona u r a dickhead. just because u r the only person in cambeltown who is to afraid to smoke cones dont mean u can talk it up like u know everything about it i dont care if u got an A in ur health class u ownt know shit about it untill u actually get balls to try it.




I sense another member is going to be put onto probation soon.
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mxchris69
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Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dont know wat that means so dont care if it happens
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Corona RT142
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Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yeah mate i am so disappointed i don't waste my life on being a stoner boo fucking hoo. And gee i think there is more than me that don't smoke in the are i mean there is like 300000 of us. Your the dick who claims its safe to drive after smoking.

It all comes down to responsibility, when i have drinks after work i organise my parents to drive and pick me up from the station. Its a five minute drive home but i still ain't gonna risk it. Yeah you claim pots great but the long term harm and side effects are wrong.
See you in the psych ward in 20 years mate. PS i know more than you think and have plenty of experince from friends and neighbours that have been off their face. Oh and have heard plenty of stories from my brother who's in final year medicine. Seen plenty of ppl from long term pot abuse, lets see some of them have developed a multitude of psych problems, a couple think their oranges etc etc.
Wooo man i am not wasting my life i am such a dick head. I wish i was cool and smoked pot and wasted my life brain and money on shit. Damn must be cool not being able to remember the best years of your life cos you were stoned for em.

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mxchris69
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Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 00:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fuk u corona. i work in cambelltown sumtimes and nearly every1 is off there heads there on weed, pills or speed the only people that aint r the geeks like u who drive around in shitty corona thinkin that they r good
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Cool1
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Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 00:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mxchris69 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2005 10:08

corona u r a dickhead. just because u r the only person in cambeltown who is to afraid to smoke cones dont mean u can talk it up like u know everything about it i dont care if u got an A in ur health class u ownt know shit about it untill u actually get balls to try it.

This is really showing your maturity.
In fact, I find it offensive that You come on here, condone the use of illegal drugs and say that us mature people that don't take drugs are afraid! I'm sure that I'm not alone when I say that we don't take drugs because we have Lives! Maybe you should try and get one.
I think you should be banned from these forums.
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mxchris69
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Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 00:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cool1 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2005 10:20

mxchris69 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2005 10:08

corona u r a dickhead. just because u r the only person in cambeltown who is to afraid to smoke cones dont mean u can talk it up like u know everything about it i dont care if u got an A in ur health class u ownt know shit about it untill u actually get balls to try it.

This is really showing your maturity.
In fact, I find it offensive that You come on here, condone the use of illegal drugs and say that us mature people that don't take drugs are afraid! I'm sure that I'm not alone when I say that we don't take drugs because we have Lives! Maybe you should try and get one.
I think you should be banned from these forums.


i aint sayin that people who dont take drugs r afraid. i dont care if u dont take drigs i care because coronaa is talkin it up like he knows everything about drugs. i dont really care wat u do in ur spare time
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Rainey
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Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 00:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mxchris69 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2005 10:08

corona u r a dickhead. just because u r the only person in cambeltown who is to afraid to smoke cones dont mean u can talk it up like u know everything about it i dont care if u got an A in ur health class u ownt know shit about it untill u actually get balls to try it.


Sorry but that was, and will be the stupidest thing I'll hear today.
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Cool1
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Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 00:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mxchris69 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2005 10:23

Cool1 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2005 10:20

mxchris69 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2005 10:08

corona u r a dickhead. just because u r the only person in cambeltown who is to afraid to smoke cones dont mean u can talk it up like u know everything about it i dont care if u got an A in ur health class u ownt know shit about it untill u actually get balls to try it.

This is really showing your maturity.
In fact, I find it offensive that You come on here, condone the use of illegal drugs and say that us mature people that don't take drugs are afraid! I'm sure that I'm not alone when I say that we don't take drugs because we have Lives! Maybe you should try and get one.
I think you should be banned from these forums.


i aint sayin that people who dont take drugs r afraid. i dont care if u dont take drigs i care because coronaa is talkin it up like he knows everything about drugs. i dont really care wat u do in ur spare time

From what I can see he knows more about drugs than you. I also know that any person no matter how used they are to a drug, will be affected by the smallest amount.
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mxchris69
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Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 00:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i also know that u r a dickhead and should learn to keep ur mouth shut. u know how to talk it up on a internet board but in real life u would be shittin there to scared to say anythin
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Rainey
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Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 00:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
You iz actually spasticated... Laughing

mxchris, please act your age not and not your panty size. Dont be talking dirt on our Toyota's either (Corona) that is not cool, and not accepted here. Rolling Eyes
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Corona RT142
Forums Junkie


Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 00:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Just cos you use the shit doesn't make you a professor on it. I am not saying i know all there is to know about it just that i have seen and also been told of many stories of the result of excess abuse.
FFS i worked at Minto Mall for three and a half years part time, i saw the long term affects of alcohol, pot, and any other variety of recreational drug abuse you want and it ain't pretty.
I don't give a shit whether you smoke it or not, but i just hope when you do you stay off the roads and don't post on here about your friend being screwed. I mean its as bad as ppl going oh a did 160 in an 80 can you give me any advice to get out of it.
I mean you do the crime you pay the time.
Oh and i'm sorry if you think campbelltown a hole, but fook me i don't mid it. Sure there are dero's but there everywhere these days and guess what, not everyone is one.
So what i drive a corona, yeah i bought it two weeks after i got my p's and am selling it at the end of the year. But its been a loyal car for the past two years never broken down goes hard and is a shitload of fun to drive hard.
If it wasn't for it i wouldn't of found toymods, which i am now a member of and have had great times this year on cruises and at various events.
Gee campbelltown so bad for a car enthusiast isn't it, the two major tracks in sydney being oran park 10 mins from my house and eastern creek a half an hour to 40mins drive from my house.

[Updated on: Tue, 05 July 2005 00:43]

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mxchris69
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Banned User

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Sydney
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June 2004
Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 00:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i never said cambelltown is a whole i actually like it there and i plan on movin in the area sum time or anotha probably around claymore, airds
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Corona RT142
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Campbelltown
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Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 00:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oh and i'll say the same thing to you as i did to unforgiven, think a corona's a bomb, show up to a toymods cruise and i'll take you for a run up a nice twisty road and prove to you otherwise. You find another car for 2.5K that can hammer thru the hills like mine i dare ya.
At every event i have been to and every friend that has come in my car they go from dissing it to thinking wtf.
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Cool1
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I supported Toymods
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May 2002
     
Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 00:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mxchris69 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2005 10:31

i also know that u r a dickhead and should learn to keep ur mouth shut.

I'm 24 years old! I have been giving shit all my life! I think if someone was good enough to learn me to keep my mouth shout, it would of happened by now!
Quote:

u know how to talk it up on a internet board but in real life u would be shittin there to scared to say anythin

What makes you think you are different to all the people I have given shit to face to face?
Hell I have given shit face to face to people on here!

And you think drugs don't have affect on some people. They sure have an affect on you Rolling Eyes
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Rainey
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Location:
Hobart, Tasmania
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January 2005
Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 01:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
^^ Laughing
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oldcorollas
Forums Junkie


Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
 
Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 01:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mxchris69 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2005 10:41

i never said cambelltown is a whole i actually like it there and i plan on movin in the area sum time or anotha probably around claymore, airds


bwuahah.. now there's a step up in the world Wink

(sorry, i'm from Camden.. you know we have a complex about campbelltown Razz )


Quote:

also know that u r a dickhead and should learn to keep ur mouth shut. u know how to talk it up on a internet board but in real life u would be shittin there to scared to say anythin


so is that a threat? a promise? or a "please Toymods board, ban me from these forums!!!" Rolling Eyes


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oldcorollas
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January 2003
 
Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 01:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cool1 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2005 10:54

I'm 24 years old!


you young 'uns make me feel positively ancient Cool
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Corona RT142
Forums Junkie


Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 01:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yeah but camden's closer to picton 'hey brandeen we as got some dinnas tonight'. Nah camden's a great area just lacks a rail line thats all.
Woooo airds and claymore, gee now theres some quality suburbs.
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Dust
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Location:
Brisbane
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February 2004
Re: crashing a car Tue, 05 July 2005 03:16 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
my grandfather used to work for the housing comission, I think I remember a joke about airds and claymore, but yeah I guess if you are supercool and pills and weed is what your life revolves around then I guess those are some good suburbs.

Almost everyone I know does drugs in some form or another and you can really tell the ones that abuse it, better them then me.
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