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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Using a Turbo computer on a Supercharger?
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Sun, 10 July 2005 08:54
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Hey guys
Well soon enough, when the ma61 is finished im looking at supercharging my 7mge to put in my old crown (stupid idea to do that to the motor and car i know)but ANYWAY:
Would you be able to use a 7MGTE style computer for a supercharger? I mean basically the ECU finds engine faults if theres any, and it regulates air and fuel flow does it not?. So why couldnt you use this on a Supercharged model?
Obviously superchargers work differently being driven by a belt, and that belt pulley being your upgrade tool as oppose to a bleed valve on a turbo.
Hope to hear from you soon
Blake
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Using a Turbo computer on a Supercharger?
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Sun, 10 July 2005 11:06
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main difference will be the amount of boost down low. maybe too much spark advance for low rpm boost.. but whre the turbo would have sooled anyway, i can't see any reason for it to be differnt
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Using a Turbo computer on a Supercharger?
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Sun, 10 July 2005 11:17
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| oldcorollas wrote on Sun, 10 July 2005 21:06 |
main difference will be the amount of boost down low. maybe too much spark advance for low rpm boost.. but whre the turbo would have sooled anyway, i can't see any reason for it to be differnt
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would you have to adjust engine timing at all do compensate for this, or do you not think it would be "that" critical?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Using a Turbo computer on a Supercharger?
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Sun, 10 July 2005 11:35
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7m-gte ECU controls ignition timing as well as fuel - none of this stuffing around by rotating dizzis and changing weights-n-shit.
exessive advance will result in detonation/pinging at low rpm - just when you want the engine to start ramping up power production.
goes out on a limb here (assuming you are blowing directly into the manifold) ... the 7mgte ECU assumes the turbo blows thru a relatively small intercooler then into the intake - if you ran a root-style charger shoving hot air directly into the intake it would be more prone to detonation/pinging due to a much hotter (temp wise) charge and you would be relying on the ECU to deal with that via the knock sensors and guestimates it might make on air temps at the AFM and relationship of throttle and rpm. Why get in this unsafe state in the first place?
If you want to do this safely, an aftermarket ECU running MAP not AFM, the air-temp sensor mounted in the intake plenum and fuel/timing maps suited to the engine.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Using a Turbo computer on a Supercharger?
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Mon, 11 July 2005 09:49
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i want to use an intercooler though charles, does that change any of what you just said?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Using a Turbo computer on a Supercharger?
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Mon, 11 July 2005 10:10
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yes 
if you don't run an ABV like a stock 4agze (so the engine can run NA during idle, cruise etc) you'll probably spend a bit more on fuel
i'd still suggest an programmable ECU - an SC will have different boost characteristics than a turbo, particularly if you run a largish non-roots type compressor (e.g. wipple) and over-drive it (e.g. engine always runs in boost).
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Using a Turbo computer on a Supercharger?
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Mon, 11 July 2005 10:22
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well id like some decent hp, so im guessing a decent sized pulley will be required. At a guess maybe 15psi or something like that id like to run?
I would looooove a Gilmer drive too...that "whirr" sound is just awesome 
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Using a Turbo computer on a Supercharger?
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Mon, 11 July 2005 10:55
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Hook it up properly with the AFM etc, and you may find it's not THAT far out - impossible to say without giving it a go. You should find that any roots blower will have a fair bit of whirring sound regardless of what kind of belt you use 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Using a Turbo computer on a Supercharger?
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Mon, 11 July 2005 13:38
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if you have money to waste go for a 7m-gze it will work but its a waste of time and money! just put a 1g-gze in or a 7m-gte with a better turbo.
the 302 in the ma61 was an interesting conversion and seeing you got it engineered you have come up a winner, blowers on large inline 6's are never a good idea! its a packaging nightmare and they are not as forgiving as turbos!
the 7m-gte ecu does have a knock sensor and the inter-cooler piping should help it be a bit "lagy" like a turbo
try it it will probably work but its going to be a cluster fuck under the bonnet guaranteed
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Using a Turbo computer on a Supercharger?
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Tue, 12 July 2005 06:15
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there isnt much room on an MS85 for an intercooler is my only main concern if i went for turbo
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Using a Turbo computer on a Supercharger?
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Tue, 12 July 2005 23:32
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A supercharger benefits from intercooling just as much as a turbocharger. You'd be pretty silly not to run one unless you're going to run a tiny amount of boost, in which case it's hardly worth the effort.
Why not just chuck a 1UZ in it? It will have just as much power/torque and there will be a whole lot less stuffing around. And surely the 8 cylinder aspect will appeal to you also.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Using a Turbo computer on a Supercharger?
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Wed, 13 July 2005 11:49
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| Norbie wrote on Wed, 13 July 2005 09:32 |
A supercharger benefits from intercooling just as much as a turbocharger. You'd be pretty silly not to run one unless you're going to run a tiny amount of boost, in which case it's hardly worth the effort.
Why not just chuck a 1UZ in it? It will have just as much power/torque and there will be a whole lot less stuffing around. And surely the 8 cylinder aspect will appeal to you also.
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well my ma70 is going to end up copping an 8 cylinder donk of some descripition, and my bank account will struggle to handle 2 v8s let alone 3! I wouldnt mind putting the ms85 into a drag class of 3000cc and below.
if this computer thing doesnt look like it will work, ill scrap the supercharger idea and go back to square one on the turbo.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Using a Turbo computer on a Supercharger?
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Wed, 13 July 2005 23:57
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I seriously doubt a supercharged 7M would be any cheaper than a 1UZ.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Using a Turbo computer on a Supercharger?
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Thu, 14 July 2005 12:24
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but i already have the 7m...so all i need is the supercharger or turbo
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Using a Turbo computer on a Supercharger?
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Fri, 15 July 2005 10:58
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i thought you always said that 7mgtes and your 2jz have more torque than ANY 5000cc v8? I fail to see why a 4000cc one would be any different.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Using a Turbo computer on a Supercharger?
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Sat, 16 July 2005 03:01
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I was talking about a cheapo home-grown 7M-GZE running low boost with the stock ECU. A 7M-GTE with the usual upgrades is a different story though, it will crap all over a 1UZ.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Using a Turbo computer on a Supercharger?
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Sun, 17 July 2005 12:52
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| Norbie wrote on Sat, 16 July 2005 13:01 |
I was talking about a cheapo home-grown 7M-GZE running low boost with the stock ECU. A 7M-GTE with the usual upgrades is a different story though, it will crap all over a 1UZ.
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I thought thats what you meant
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