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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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45mm weber + LPG gas = good ?
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Wed, 11 December 2002 10:14
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been pondering this a bit lately
Anyone here heard of or used an LPG system on sidedraft webers ..
I have a hell of a problem with cornering of fuel starvation and i was wondering if gas would be a good option to look at
Plus that and its a way higher octane than petrol
what would i need to look at mecahnical wise to do this - and whats peopkes thoughts on the conversion
( have the boot floor mount tank - so id put a 40 litre or so gas tank there to solve any space issues
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Toodyay, WA
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 45mm weber + LPG gas = good ?
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Wed, 11 December 2002 11:17
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Hey Classique,
Gas is good and bad...
great for cornering and stuff.
Our hilux had gas and was great off road, until one of the engine mounts broke and the gas hose from the gas carb to the air cleaner tried to hold down the 253...
But to run gas properly you want much higher compression, like 11:1 or more. but then again gas is not as high as far as octane goes as it used to be, i have a feeling it was 130RON at one stage? so 14:1 is a go! 
trying to set up the gas into the cars might prove a little tricky, but not impossible...
But my fav thing about gas was filling up for $25!
but now gas is more expensive too 
as far as the engine is conserned you need hardened valve seats to run it properly, or you can run some valve lube.
is this any help??
but for perfomance i'd stick with high compression and premium!
and if your leaning out round corners get some baffels in your tank, or get a surge tank.
CamZH
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 45mm weber + LPG gas = good ?
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Wed, 11 December 2002 12:51
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Ahhh... LPG...
As a fuel it has some handy properties:
Potentially high octane
High latent heat
Cheaper
Makes people laugh
But theres a few issues too:
In australia, always inconsistant, is allowed to contain up to 50% butane, which lowers the octane rating a lot
Gas systems are nearly all CRAP - fumigated manifold = crap. Plain and simple. I'm sick of it personally, but I refuse to run on petrol! Think about it - especially with an EFI manifold, introducing the fuel before the throttle is always going to make an engine run like crap - imagine tee-ing a 3 litre box between your carbs and the engine!
Propane = RON of 111
Different butanes range from 95 to 101
I'm currently looking for answers for my own car, and soon as I have something sorted, I can let you know.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 45mm weber + LPG gas = good ?
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Thu, 12 December 2002 00:21
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just so we have a few ifs sorted - my motors already a high compression beast and has trhe hardened valve seats
Id run it on straight gas - not duel fuel - and ive had 2 gas cars previos that ran well - the last beig a straight gas ZH marquis ( YAY CAM ) with GTHO spec 351 .. It absolutely flew and never missed a beat
Sooooo - all i need to really know is what things would i need to convert the weber over to straight lpg ( ive heard of gas research and they be coool - but - i have this brand new weber hanging off the side already ) and would i nee to modify more than just the fuel tank setup ?
Do they need different fuel pumps , hoses etc ?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Toodyay, WA
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 45mm weber + LPG gas = good ?
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Thu, 12 December 2002 07:24
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Hey Classsique,
You'll find the gas doesnt need a pump!
it just uncompresses from liquid with enough pressure to get to the engine bay with no probs.
A friend of mine runs a striped down thermoquad, ie the only part he has left is the throttle body.
It's all you need the gas carb does the mixing and stuff, so all you need is a throttle body to adjust how much gets into the engine.
efi manifolds are good for this. but i'm not sure if the plenum would help you...
to get the tank and everything done you'll probably need to go and get it done at at a gas place.
I'm thinking about selling my Marquis if your intersted....
CamZH
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 45mm weber + LPG gas = good ?
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Thu, 12 December 2002 07:53
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hmms - so converting a 45mm would be a prick ?
Sent a few questions off to gas research re the idea - waiting on a reply.. who knows what ill do yet !
As for the marquis - keep it - they are rarer to find than LTD's of the same age ! Id love one but at the moment my garage budget and so on wont let me 
If i did youd see one that would be a total Sleeper getting about .. Tharts what i loved about my old one - no one - and i mean NO ONE can deny the torque rush of a 6.2 litre stroked 351 in full song - it was - in polite terms - a fucking AWESOME machine with oh so " going to the bowls dear " looks 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 45mm weber + LPG gas = good ?
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Thu, 12 December 2002 19:43
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bah. stu, sell the weber and use the $ to put towards a gasresearch mixer!
i know of people who have done same - infact made venturis' to sit on top of carbs (like SU's) ect BUT you have to be very specific with angles - remember the actual shape/angle of the thing needs to be such that it pulls the gas thru/out of the gas ring - kinda hard to explain.
also you won't be able to tune very effectively in that setup. a GRA setup will give you three settings, idle power and cruise (they're very crude compared to EFi) - however compared to like normal gas rings on top of carbs they're 100% improvement.
couple of places to look at : http://www.gasresearchpc.com.au/
and http://www.gasresearch.com.au/
there is a place in hoppers too called rapidflow they tuned my VH with the 202 - when they got it, it was making 70hp at the rears when they were done with it, it made 105hp at the rears. thats one car i TRULY regret selling.
doesn't mean i can't build the celica the same tho!
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Banned member
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 45mm weber + LPG gas = good ?
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Fri, 13 December 2002 04:22
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if you are goign to spend that sort of money on your car why not upgrade the power the easy way...
i.e. engine swap like a 3tgte or even a stock 2tg with twin solex's and you'll still be in front
i was thinking the other day about gas, and you dont see too many hi-powered race/drag cars on gas its either regular fuel (optimax or whatever) or the higher octane 'racing' fuel i got 60 litres of it sitting here, i advanced the timing to 18 advance on the 22re once when it was running the big cam and damn it was fast, but anyway
go the 3tgte or for a big bigger budget 1uzfe !...mine is here and im bringing home the old work ute which has been condemned tommorow...hmmmm what to do
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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 Re: 45mm weber + LPG gas = good ?
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Fri, 13 December 2002 22:54
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I have been involved in the carburettor and efi industry for over 20 years now and have found countless carburettors over a period of time with LPG tend to ruin the internals of the carburettor.
It is recomended that you switch back to fuel regularly to keep diaphrams and other components moist as the LPG dries them and ruins it.
Perhaps an efi conversion would be a option for your situation,
we have a ta22 with an 3tgte and a 460 ford with aftermarket fully programmable Haltech systems.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 45mm weber + LPG gas = good ?
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Sat, 14 December 2002 01:38
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Who is we?? Do you sell and tune Haltech syestems?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 45mm weber + LPG gas = good ?
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Sat, 14 December 2002 02:10
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We as in myself and partner (S.C.C & efi) www.scc-efi.com.au
Yes, we are one of the Qld agents for Haltech systems
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 45mm weber + LPG gas = good ?
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Sat, 14 December 2002 07:23
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for starters a 3tgte requires more than just bolt in - theres the fuel pumps and the ECU's to think about too ..
If i was to do that it also would be a w55 gearbox swap - digg swap and brakes swap - start adding up the dollars here ..
As for stock 2tg - when cammed - mine Should flog the living pants out of a stock 2tg ..
in stock form 2tb vs 2tg - the 2tb is only down what - 7 horsepower - so theres not much doifference - as ive explained before ..
plus i like my 2tb - and my weber even if it is a pig of a thng - it still wont break the rest of the running gear no matter how hard i make it go
Its just an idea - anyway - as gor gas carbs - having had 2 cars previous tuned straight gas wise - and a friend who has a 400+ horsepower 351 tuned on straight gas ( gas research setup too )- id say theres cars out there that make use of the extra bang a nice feed of straight propane delivers
Who knows what i ight do yet - i might just finish the 71 - and sell the bastard for decent EFI factory performance - like a Gt4 or a supra
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Banned member
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 45mm weber + LPG gas = good ?
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Sat, 14 December 2002 12:31
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hey stu just an idea mate as the 2tg will outperform the single cam variety given the same mods, you dont even have a 2tb anyway its a 2t with a single carb
you can get a decent ma60 supra nowadays for $3000
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 45mm weber + LPG gas = good ?
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Mon, 16 December 2002 08:27
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Ummm yes - its a 2tb - thats the HIGH COMPRESSION version of the 2t ..
theres a lot different between mine and a 2t thats for sure - if i get a chance ill take pics of the head off - and pistons setup when it gets rebuilt for cam after xmas ..
and i already have an ma61 supra at my disposal - its currently sitting in front of the ta22 waiting for a new set of tyres on the rear ..
As for the 2tg outperforming with the same mods - after long talks with rodney try ( who had a heavily worked 2tg/ 3tg hybrid in his wife tinas car * current toymods under 1800 cc NA champ *) power for power if mines on the mark - it should come damn close or better it .. he's seen my specs - and has helped me prepare mine with the single carb setup ( the weber on mine was his ) and pointed me in the right direction to squeeze every possible horsie out of it without building a full on race motor -or using forced indiuction - And if it doesnt live up to expectations - well - i just might build up a 2tgeu or a 2tgteu for shits and giggles , bolt the bastard in - and have some old school / new school fun
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Banned member
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 45mm weber + LPG gas = good ?
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Mon, 16 December 2002 08:49
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sounds good you will have to take some sound files if you can of the beast when its done as well as some pics...
too bad you moved so far away now i have two ta22's on the road and another project they could have been good friends 
remember Em ?....shes bought herself a white ra60 hatch and plans to convert over to a 22re and run all the gear i was using last time we went for a drive though i think i was on a more subtle cam then
see ya
p.s. i have a spare set of 40phh solex's hint, hint, nudge, nudge 
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 45mm weber + LPG gas = good ?
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Mon, 16 December 2002 08:52
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it is lumpy - very lumpy - getting a new muffler setup on it at the same time - probably something a little more suiting than making it sound like a angry bee at high revs
plans for the ta22 are varied - ill either keep it and make it better and better - or sell the bastard and fund a GT4
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