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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: New ethanol added fuels available at all United petrol stations
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Sat, 30 July 2005 08:28
 
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oh also I forgot to say I tried some on my ae-82 corolla twinky and I didn't feel any performance difference with the same state of tune, i do know it's running a bit rich though.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth WA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: New ethanol added fuels available at all United petrol stations - thoughts?
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Tue, 02 August 2005 11:58
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It's not likely that you will see a performance gain, unless you retune your engine to take advantage of the higher octane, rather than leaving it with standard air/fuel ratios.
I'm more interested in whether it will HARM a tuned car. Fuels like BP Ultimate and Optimax are a known quantity. Does anyone know of any engine failures as a result of ethanol containing fuels?
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: New ethanol added fuels available at all United petrol stations - thoughts?
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Tue, 02 August 2005 12:11
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| jza70-mel wrote on Tue, 02 August 2005 21:58 |
I'm more interested in whether it will HARM a tuned car. Fuels like BP Ultimate and Optimax are a known quantity. Does anyone know of any engine failures as a result of ethanol containing fuels?
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All the crap stories on TV are to make you believe that any ethanol content in fuel will harm your engine. The oil company's cant have you using an alternative! If anything will be harmed on the car it maybe be the fuel lines. This however is very unlikely unless your car is 40 years old or something.
There is one problem with ethanol and this is the fact that it (for lack of a better word) absorbs water at a greater rate than your ulp! But at only %10 content I highly doubt that this is going to be a problem.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: New ethanol added fuels available at all United petrol stations - thoughts?
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Tue, 02 August 2005 12:43
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In other words, don't leave your fuel lying around in humid conditions for months on end. Which you weren't going to do, now were you?
Also, remember the garbage they tried to spin us over adding toluene to fuel, and how it was the greatest evil since the halocaust?
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: New ethanol added fuels available at all United petrol stations - thoughts?
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Tue, 02 August 2005 12:43
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I didnt expect a power gain without some more ignition advance however I was a bit more concerned at the fuel mixture change.
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Location:
Newcastle, Australia
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: New ethanol added fuels available at all United petrol stations - thoughts?
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Wed, 03 August 2005 04:17
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Ethanol has a lower energy content than petrol though. Just like LPG has an octane higher than 100 but you get less power from your car when you flick the switch across to LPG (for those lucky dual-fuel people out there).
You also get worse fuel economy from high-ethanol fuels. So indeed it is false economy.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: New ethanol added fuels available at all United petrol stations - thoughts?
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Wed, 03 August 2005 05:57
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sooooo
say i have a small port 4age and a 3S-GTE both jap import motors/ecu's currently running BP 98RON would there be any harm in running the ethanol mix without any changes to the motors? Would there be any performace decrease/increase? Fuel economy will be lower than 98RON?
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: New ethanol added fuels available at all United petrol stations - thoughts?
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Wed, 03 August 2005 06:43
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I agree with Norbie about the energy content.
Also an engine will only lose power when going from conventional fuel to LPG when the engine isn't optimised for it. I now have put a second tank of fuel in my other car and I will see if I notice a difference in the fuel use in that.
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Registered:
January 2004
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Re: New ethanol added fuels available at all United petrol stations - thoughts?
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Wed, 03 August 2005 06:48
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From a tuners point of view the oxygen content of ethanol is what is of interest  there is another readily available liquid that is oxygenated that is freely available and when the motor is tuned with this liquid in the fuel quite noticable gains are produced.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: New ethanol added fuels available at all United petrol stations - thoughts?
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Wed, 03 August 2005 06:57
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I have NFI about this new fuel but I filled up on it the other day and the car runs like absolute shite now  will see what happens when I put some more RULP in there...
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: New ethanol added fuels available at all United petrol stations - thoughts?
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Wed, 03 August 2005 08:35
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want to elorate a bit more 170hp?
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Location:
Newcastle, NSW
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: New ethanol added fuels available at all United petrol stations - thoughts?
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Wed, 03 August 2005 13:10
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ages ago my cousin, mechanic and gas converter(auto) was telling me the number one cause of dead engines that come into his workshop are due to the "new breed" of higher ethanole content fuels, he says it is quite common for the ethanole to melt the insides of ur fuel lines, gumming up ur injectors, causing you to run bullshit lean...and u guys know where it goes from there....i didnt take too much notice of it when he said it..nore did i care as i only use caltex and bp 98 fuels religiously, but i thaught it might be relevent here?
cheers
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: New ethanol added fuels available at all United petrol stations - thoughts?
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Wed, 03 August 2005 14:25
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Remember, too, that Methanol and Ethanol are not the same stuff... They have quite different properties, both as a fuel, and as a beverage 
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: New ethanol added fuels available at all United petrol stations - thoughts?
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Wed, 03 August 2005 22:05
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| Norbie wrote on Wed, 03 August 2005 13:22 |
Actually the "energy content" of a fuel has little to do with the amount if power it will develop. A good example is methanol which has half the calorific value of petrol (~7000 vs ~15000 calories/lb), and yet it will make twice as much power in an engine built for it.
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It has half the calorific value of fuel but you have to consume twice as much fuel for a given energy output.
Not sure about twice the power output from methanol all else being equal, although methanol has a very high octane rating around 150 so you gain advantages there for sure.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: New ethanol added fuels available at all United petrol stations - thoughts?
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Wed, 03 August 2005 23:08
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FWIW I am working at BP refinery in Brisbane at the moment.
BP says that the E10 fuels that it is producing (Less than RON 96 at the moment) have cleaner tailpipe emmissions than the regular 100% crude fuels but will give less economy by about 2-3%. So it seems to me that emmissions as a function of time are reduced but emmissions as a function of km's travelled might actually be worse (False economy). But if you spend most of your time idling in traffic then what is really better 
1. What is the octane rating of....?
The octane ratings of common fuels are as follows:
Lead Replacement Petrol 96 min
Unleaded Petrol 91 min
Premium Unleaded Petrol 95 min
BP Ultimate 98 min
BP Racing 100 110-115 (typical)
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2. How can I boost my octane?
The octane of a fuel can be boosted by adding proportions of a higher octane fuel. Also available is toluene, which can be used as an octane booster in both unleaded and leaded fuels. Generally each 5% addition of toluene will increase the fuel's octane rating by one number. It is not recommended to add more than 30% of toluene to the fuel. Because of the dangers with incorrect mixing, individual motorist are advised against mixing additives with fuels without first consulting their car engine manual or their fuel supplier.
Here's to healthy debate...
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