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Location:
Coffs Harbour
Registered:
October 2004
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3sgte question
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Mon, 01 August 2005 09:09
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hey guys i got a celica with a st165 3sgte in it which is the water to air cooler, with a top mount water cooler and was wonderin can i fit an st185 top mount air cooler onto the turbo without havin to change the turbo or can i fit a FMIC or wont this work ? or will i need a group A cooler which is water to air ?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 3sgte question
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Mon, 01 August 2005 09:17
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It doesnt matter what type of cooler you get, as long as its from a Gen1 to Gen 3 3sgte the pipes will all line up.
The only thing I can see with getting a 185 ATA is the need for a scoop to be fabricated, and the dimensions checked as im not sure what the clearance is between the motor and the bonnet in a ST16x. And if you go with a 185 ATA you will have no need for the heat exchanger and all the plumbing assocaited with your current WTA.
a 185 CS or 205 WTA cooler would be ideal, but be prepared to hunt around for ages and do your arse on how much they are worth.
Ideally I would go FMIC, you might be able to find a more efficient intake path if you clock the turbo....do a search as a FMIC conversion in a ST16x has been document and covered several times.
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Location:
Coffs Harbour
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 3sgte question
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Mon, 01 August 2005 09:20
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ok so i t doesnt matter that it is water cooling and changing it to air works ?
i have a st185 top mount cooler already  thats not a prob, i been measuring up the front bar and wasnt enough room for a FMIC so thats why im goin with top mmount and also i have a bonnet scoop for it,
im not sure bout clearance hopefully it will fit though,
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 3sgte question
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Mon, 01 August 2005 09:24
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I dare say it will as i dont see much of a difference in height dimensions between the WTA & ATA. If anything one would think the ATA would be slightly thinner.
Bolt it up, and close the bonnet gently hehe
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Location:
Coffs Harbour
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 3sgte question
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Mon, 01 August 2005 09:34
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so it wont affect the turbo ? having it running coolant into the turbo then running air into it ?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: 3sgte question
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Mon, 01 August 2005 09:38
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you have lost me....
the coolant running through your WTA is completely independant of the turbo. As I own a gen 2 3SGTE the twin entry CT26 on my engine IS water cooled, yours may or may not be im not sure about the single entry models, but if it does that coolant path is part of your overall cooling system in your motor, the IC is not. It runs its own sealed system.
Essentially your engine doesnt care and is oblivious to the type of IC you run, all it cares about is that the air is actually cooled and that there arent any leaks in the intake path.
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3sgte question
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Mon, 01 August 2005 09:39
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Seriously - just go straight to frontmount - use your st185 core - piping isnt that hard to make - its more mounting it
theres space behind the bar though to do it right you may want to look at a custom small core
Water to air is efficiebnt but youll find it near impossible to find one of the larger 185 or 205 cores , and well if you use top mounted 185 cooler your going to have to hack up your bonnet - and it will Still suffer from the normal heatsoak issues the 185's have
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Location:
Coffs Harbour
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 3sgte question
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Mon, 01 August 2005 09:41
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cheers mate
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 3sgte question
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Mon, 01 August 2005 14:06
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| Quote: |
the coolant running through your WTA is completely independant of the turbo. As I own a gen 2 3SGTE the twin entry CT26 on my engine IS water cooled, yours may or may not be im not sure about the single entry models, but if it does that coolant path is part of your overall cooling system in your motor, the IC is not. It runs its own sealed system.
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Water to air is efficiebnt but youll find it near impossible to find one of the larger 185 or 205 cores , and well if you use top mounted 185 cooler your going to have to hack up your bonnet - and it will Still suffer from the normal heatsoak issues the 185's have
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The CT26 on the ST165 engine runs a water feed. Also, although the IC runs it's own water system, it's not 'independent' of the engines - they both rely on the same thing to absorb heat - air flow (and to an extent, radiation/diffusion).
Lets say you stick the air-air intercooler onto the ST165 (note : the cam covers are different on the first gen 3S-GTEs compared to the later gens not sure if that will be a problem) you will have to modify the bonnet to improve the air flow to the intercooler (allowing it to work for one thing) - with a bit of design and engineering you could easily improve the air flow to the radiator (as the factory heat exchanger would no longer be in the way) and without all the water pump and wiring etc you would probably save a bit of weight (and reducing the number parts generally increases reliability). To be honest, I'd say it'd be at *least* a reliability improvement, and maybe a slight performance improvement as the engines over-all ability to stay cool would be improved.
Sure the ST185 and ST205 water-air cores are bigger, but the ST165 core is actually fairly decent (although small) except in cases where the turbo has either been upgraded or heavily modified - it is perfectly fine - unfortunately I don't have any air flow or pressure drop stats on hand  Either way the weak link is the heat exchanger, it's just far too small on the ST165, due to the bad heat exchanger design and poor air flow there seems to be a 'myth' that the ST165 water-air system is worthless.
As for the heatsoak - well it's a bit of a problem on ST165s as well! The water pump shuts down after several seconds when standing still and hence the heat exchanger and the core tends to heatsoak. Running the water-pump constantly is one option (but will reduce its life-span) the other option is to attach a fan over the heat exchanger but I have no idea how good a result that will give (the core will probably still heat-soak)
[Updated on: Tue, 02 August 2005 02:39]
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