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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Tue, 09 August 2005 05:40
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When I give my car a bit of boost (say above 7 or 8Psi), it starts chewing through the oil. With the current oil I have (10W/50 Synth), it hardly makes any signs that it's actually burning or consuming oil. Now we're moving out of the cool months and back into slightly warmer weather, I will change my oil for a thicker viscosity (like 10W/30 or something similar). My question is, will a thicker oil viscosity give out any signs that it's being consumed, over a thinner viscosity oil?
The reason why it's being consumed is that the ring gaps/clearances aren't right on the Arias pistons for a 3S-GTE. I'm not the only one with a 3S-GTE and Arias pistons with this problem either. 
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Location:
sydney,nsw.oz.
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Tue, 09 August 2005 06:44
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How many litres/1000 km is it burning ?
Thicker oil shouldn't burn as much as thin oil
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Tue, 09 August 2005 06:53
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| RAV-GT4 wrote on Tue, 09 August 2005 15:40 |
When I give my car a bit of boost (say above 7 or 8Psi), it starts chewing through the oil. With the current oil I have (10W/50 Synth), it hardly makes any signs that it's actually burning or consuming oil. Now we're moving out of the cool months and back into slightly warmer weather, I will change my oil for a thicker viscosity (like 10W/30 or something similar). My question is, will a thicker oil viscosity give out any signs that it's being consumed, over a thinner viscosity oil?
The reason why it's being consumed is that the ring gaps/clearances aren't right on the Arias pistons for a 3S-GTE. I'm not the only one with a 3S-GTE and Arias pistons with this problem either.
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10W30 is thinner  but anyway 
could this be related to running too cold? not expansion happening etc? did that get sorted yet?
what were the rings gapped to? the oil control rings should still be controlling the oil...
all oil should give signs of being consumed, but it may only be a hint of smoke that you can only see when following the car, not from in the drivers seat. thicker and thinner should still have similar signs.. they aren't that different really...
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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Tue, 09 August 2005 06:57
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| FWDCelica wrote on Tue, 09 August 2005 16:44 |
How many litres/1000 km is it burning ?
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Ummm, good question. Not 100% sure. It depends on how heavy my right foot is on the gas... 
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Thicker oil shouldn't burn as much as thin oil
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I guess that's a good thing then.
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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Tue, 09 August 2005 07:06
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| oldcorollas wrote on Tue, 09 August 2005 16:53 |
10W30 is thinner
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d'oh! What viscosity would be a good one to use for a 3S-GTE in the warmer months?
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could this be related to running too cold? not expansion happening etc? did that get sorted yet?
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I guess this could be a contributing factor... I only noticed this happening AFTER the head was rebuilt and the car was running cold, but I didn't notice any signs of consumption before this... good point.
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what were the rings gapped to?
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Not sure, I wasn't involved with that side of it.
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all oil should give signs of being consumed, but it may only be a hint of smoke that you can only see when following the car, not from in the drivers seat. thicker and thinner should still have similar signs.. they aren't that different really...
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Well, sometimes when my MAP sensor is stuffing up on me, and the bitch runs at about 45°C, I can see a fair bit more exhaust smoke coming out behind me. If the MAP isn't acting up on me, it seems to be ok, can't see any visible signs of oil consumption, although I've been told once by someone behind me that I was putting out a bit of smoke, but I attributed this to the engine running rich.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Tue, 09 August 2005 07:15
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I would seriously be trying to get the temperature issues properly sorted. If the engine isn't up to temp, nothing will be sealing as it should.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Tue, 09 August 2005 07:17
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10W/30 is thinner than 10W/50.
You should be running a 50 weight oil (e.g. 10W/50) all year round in the 3SGTE.
Thicker oil (e.g. 10W/60) will probably decrease the amount of oil slipping past your rings, turbo seals or valve stem seals, however, using thicker oil to mask these problems is just a band-aid approach and may lead to bigger problems in the future.
In your case I would say that you still haven't bedded in the rings properly.
You should have used a mineral oil to run in your engine... is this what you ran?
With a decent oil in a properly run in engine in good working order you should be able to go from one oil change to the next without having to top it up at all.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Tue, 09 August 2005 07:20
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Also I have heard many people say that the rings included with most Arias piston sets need a really rough hone to get them to bed in properly... it is possible that your engine builder did a fairly fine hone and this is causing you problems.
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Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Tue, 09 August 2005 10:42
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I have the arias pistons and rings, and have been using 10W/30 oil since rebuild. I don't have the above oil burning problems at all (that i can see anyways - also confirmed by cars following me)
If that helps any. Ill be switch to a 5W/40 oil once i goto synth.
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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Wed, 10 August 2005 05:28
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| Toobs wrote on Tue, 09 August 2005 17:17 |
10W/30 is thinner than 10W/50.
You should be running a 50 weight oil (e.g. 10W/50) all year round in the 3SGTE.
Thicker oil (e.g. 10W/60) will probably decrease the amount of oil slipping past your rings, turbo seals or valve stem seals, however, using thicker oil to mask these problems is just a band-aid approach and may lead to bigger problems in the future.
In your case I would say that you still haven't bedded in the rings properly.
You should have used a mineral oil to run in your engine... is this what you ran?
With a decent oil in a properly run in engine in good working order you should be able to go from one oil change to the next without having to top it up at all.
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Thanks Toobs, I used Valvoline SAE-30 Monograde for the first two oil changes, then went to Synthetic.
I'll get the temp issues sorted out when I can.. 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Wed, 10 August 2005 05:29
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| RAV-GT4 wrote on Wed, 10 August 2005 13:28 |
I'll get the temp issues sorted out when I can..
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Good idea, I wouldn't worry about any of the other issues you're having until you sort that out, chances are it's the source of most of them.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Wed, 10 August 2005 07:32
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| RAV-GT4 wrote on Tue, 09 August 2005 17:06 |
| oldcorollas wrote on Tue, 09 August 2005 16:53 |
10W30 is thinner
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d'oh! What viscosity would be a good one to use for a 3S-GTE in the warmer months?
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it says 10-30w on my mr2 on the back of my driver side visor.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Wed, 10 August 2005 07:32
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Yep if your ECU thinks your engine is only 45deg then it would probably be running uber rich all the time.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Wed, 10 August 2005 07:35
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| SW20R wrote on Wed, 10 August 2005 17:32 |
| RAV-GT4 wrote on Tue, 09 August 2005 17:06 |
| oldcorollas wrote on Tue, 09 August 2005 16:53 |
10W30 is thinner
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d'oh! What viscosity would be a good one to use for a 3S-GTE in the warmer months?
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it says 10-30w on my mr2 on the back of my driver side visor.
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Is your MR2 JDM?
If you've still got the owners manual you will see the oil viscosity chart recommends about a 50 weight oil for our climate.
Obviously Japan & Europe have colder climates than us.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Wed, 10 August 2005 07:37
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| Toobs wrote on Wed, 10 August 2005 17:32 |
Yep if your ECU thinks your engine is only 45deg then it would probably be running uber rich all the time.
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which will wash the oil off the bores and lead to higher oil consumption!! it may not be noticeable becuase it's half dissolved in oil and a very small amount.. but a small amount every stroke is a lot..
with my 4K, going from uber rich carb to EFI, i suddenly stopped using oil
methinks we are onto a winner here...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Wed, 10 August 2005 07:40
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| Toobs wrote on Wed, 10 August 2005 17:35 |
| SW20R wrote on Wed, 10 August 2005 17:32 |
| RAV-GT4 wrote on Tue, 09 August 2005 17:06 |
| oldcorollas wrote on Tue, 09 August 2005 16:53 |
10W30 is thinner
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d'oh! What viscosity would be a good one to use for a 3S-GTE in the warmer months?
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it says 10-30w on my mr2 on the back of my driver side visor.
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Is your MR2 JDM?
If you've still got the owners manual you will see the oil viscosity chart recommends about a 50 weight oil for our climate.
Obviously Japan & Europe have colder climates than us.
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yeah its jdm. i've been using 10/30w in winter which seems fine. but will change to 50w in 2 months
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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Wed, 10 August 2005 15:18
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Most of the time it depends on what the outside air temp is as well, considering I'm driving in peak hour traffic 95% of the time... for instance, tonight the coolant didn't get above 58°C and two nights ago when it was a little warmer, it went to 65°C. Same driving, same route, same traffic.
It's only when the stupid MAP sensor is acting up that it goes to the REAL low temps (like sub-50°C).
Also FYI Toobs, Dominator did the work on the block (honing).
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Wed, 10 August 2005 21:54
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Maybe you just haven't been thrashing it hard enough then... your rings aren't going to bed in while your driving miss daisy! 
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Location:
Parramatta
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Wed, 10 August 2005 22:48
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andrew once again we share the same issues my car is oil hungry! but its all dependand on how much i put my foot down also! boost = oil consumption, how much i have no idea i have tried a variety of thin to thicker oils and not much works for me.
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Location:
Parramatta
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Wed, 10 August 2005 22:53
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andrew once again we share the same issues my car is oil hungry! but its all dependand on how much i put my foot down also! boost = oil consumption, how much i have no idea i have tried a variety of thin to thicker oils and not much works for me.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Wed, 10 August 2005 23:21
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| RAV-GT4 wrote on Thu, 11 August 2005 01:18 |
Most of the time it depends on what the outside air temp is as well, considering I'm driving in peak hour traffic 95% of the time... for instance, tonight the coolant didn't get above 58°C and two nights ago when it was a little warmer, it went to 65°C. Same driving, same route, same traffic.
It's only when the stupid MAP sensor is acting up that it goes to the REAL low temps (like sub-50°C).
Also FYI Toobs, Dominator did the work on the block (honing).
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Andrew - Have you got a thermostat in there at all? When I drove my new engine over to the turbo workshop It only stayed at 30-40deg.
Well atleast your driving your car now. I remember your car being at Belgarage last year
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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Fri, 12 August 2005 07:27
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| SW20R wrote on Thu, 11 August 2005 09:21 |
| RAV-GT4 wrote on Thu, 11 August 2005 01:18 |
Most of the time it depends on what the outside air temp is as well, considering I'm driving in peak hour traffic 95% of the time... for instance, tonight the coolant didn't get above 58°C and two nights ago when it was a little warmer, it went to 65°C. Same driving, same route, same traffic.
It's only when the stupid MAP sensor is acting up that it goes to the REAL low temps (like sub-50°C).
Also FYI Toobs, Dominator did the work on the block (honing).
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Andrew - Have you got a thermostat in there at all? When I drove my new engine over to the turbo workshop It only stayed at 30-40deg.
Well atleast your driving your car now. I remember your car being at Belgarage last year
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Yeah guys, it's almost been on the road a year since the conversion. And been rebuilt twice since then... Yes mine does have a thermostat in there, the TRD 71°C which cost an arm and a leg. I'm thinking of sticking the old 82°C one back in instead, see if it works instead of giving me this much grief. 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Fri, 12 August 2005 07:51
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Aren't your thermofans on all the time also? I'd be trying to fix that too.
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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Fri, 12 August 2005 10:04
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Yes the (permo-fans) are on all the time. I'll be grabbing a new coolant temp switch from Toyota soon, getting that installed and rigging up the new fan onto that switch.  That will hopefully give me a little more peace of mind about the radiator coolant. 
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Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Sat, 20 August 2005 04:51
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I just checked my oil levels, and sure enough, i have the same 'oil burning' as rav-gt4 is getting. I've gone thru 1/4 the dipstick since i last topped the car up (and that also includes the oil used by the filter).
It isn't blowing smoke.
There is oil in the intake.
There isn't any oil leak on the pavement (save the power steering pump).
I went over all the clearances, and the overly larger 35thou clearance for the pistons i believe is the culprit.
As i was talking to spectral to it, and it makes an evil kind of sense. As forged pistons expand more then cast pistons do. So cold engine oil consumption must be right up there.
Should i be worrying about it? no not really. Just means i have to properly warm the car up otherwise its just gonna keep sucking down the oil.
Just my 2.2c's worth. Correct me if i wrong (please don't, i don't like un explained oil use.... )
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Oil viscosities and Consumption
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Sat, 20 August 2005 05:14
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I still don't think your engine is run in properly Rav... chuck in another bottle of Valvoline "running in oil" and don't drive around like a girl this time!
Get those rings bedded in!!!
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