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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: PARALLEL Twincharging, whatever....
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Thu, 25 August 2005 06:08
 
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| Ben Wilson wrote on Thu, 25 August 2005 08:16 |
The problem with a PWM signal to the clutch is the clutch is mechanical, it just uses the signal to engage the clutch. If you slip the clutch, you will burn it out in no time..
However, if you ran a variable displacement hydraulic piston pump off the crank, then a gear motor on the nose of the supercharger, you could have completely variable speed (I have no idea what this would cost though).
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oh, i didn't know it was still mech.. i thought it was just big-arsed magnets  thanks 
hmm... thinking sideways also....
what are the chances of running the SC by hydraulic means, rather than by a belt? those 1J?1UZ? fans are hydraulic, and they transfer a fair bit of power (but not sure how much)... and it would be easy to regulate speed, although it may make the SC sped not as consistent.....
but it would be different
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Location:
Hackham South Australia
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: PARALLEL Twincharging, whatever....
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Thu, 25 August 2005 09:07
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Hmm I had a thought (and no its not my first)
In order for this kind of set up wouldn't it be beneficial to throw away the SC12 and go with a bigger supercharger?
I am sure that CAPPA would be able to supply something that has the means of being grunty enough that you could keep it running at the same time as the turbo.
I mean that you are talking about bypass valves and hydraulic clutches, with all that money you could have a large SC that is capable of 20 PSI + .
Is there no reason that a larger SC could feed to a top mount cooler, to the mouth of the turbo and through a front mount cooler and straight in to the throttle body?
Please correct me if I am wrong on this
Dale
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: PARALLEL Twincharging, whatever....
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Thu, 25 August 2005 09:09
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you mean like a viscous coupling? should work, no problem. They handle the power through the centre diff/transfer case in some AWD systems, so I'm sure something could be arranged. Cost and parts availability could be a severe limitation though. An electromagnetic brake could be used, but I don't think there is anyway that one could hold the power going through it, and size is an issue, again. Picture, for example, a loaded up alternator (similar concept - mechanical energy producing electric energy). How much power does that drain? and how big is the friggin thing? Even if you had one with enough force, you have a bloody big thing on the front of the charger.
Maybe a variable speed belt drive? But I know first hand how unreliable they are in AC treadmills, and also how expensive they are. And thinking about it, It'd have to be pretty chunky to transmit 60hp to the blower.
Just some thoughts... I don't think mechanical duty control would be easy.
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Location:
St. Kilda
Registered:
August 2005
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 Re: Twincharging, lets make it work
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Thu, 25 August 2005 09:55
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Why not have a centrifical clutch that free wheels at revs above 5 grand and let the turbo take off from there.No switches,solonoids,nuthing but revs
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: PARALLEL Twincharging, whatever....
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Thu, 25 August 2005 10:27
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| doityourself wrote on Thu, 25 August 2005 19:07 |
Hmm I had a thought (and no its not my first)
In order for this kind of set up wouldn't it be beneficial to throw away the SC12 and go with a bigger supercharger?
I am sure that CAPPA would be able to supply something that has the means of being grunty enough that you could keep it running at the same time as the turbo.
I mean that you are talking about bypass valves and hydraulic clutches, with all that money you could have a large SC that is capable of 20 PSI + .
Is there no reason that a larger SC could feed to a top mount cooler, to the mouth of the turbo and through a front mount cooler and straight in to the throttle body?
Please correct me if I am wrong on this
Dale
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no need to go to bigger SC.. if we are only going to 12psi or so and 5000rpm, thats well within the SC12 efficiency (if it has any  )
bypass valves as i try to keep saying are not expensive.... any throttle body will do.
if you were going to have the ultimate driveable forced induction car, you would get a lysholm twin screw supersharger.. they are cheap too, only $2-3K... i would like to do one when i am in Australia next...
but if you already have an SC12 (and they are like $200 anyway) and you have a big turbo lying around (i dunno.. sayy T04 or something capable of 300-350kw) then the idea is to stick em together and make it work
and as far as keeping SC running, SC efficiency decreases massivle as rpm goes up.. in fact the losses are the SQUARE of speed... double speed = 4 times losses.. and SC outside it's efficiency range = lots of heat.
sure you could have two IC's but isn't that just gettign a little excessicve??? what costs more.. a decent IC, or a second hand throttlebody??? i know you can get one of those for free
and also you markedly increase the intake path, resistance and volume... part of the point (as stated earlier) is to reduce intake volume and length....
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: PARALLEL Twincharging, whatever....
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Thu, 25 August 2005 10:29
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but the main point of this thread is to get people thinking differently, and a bit for technically about things...
i'm glad this is happening
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Location:
St. Kilda
Registered:
August 2005
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 Re: PARALLEL Twincharging, whatever....
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Thu, 25 August 2005 10:46
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Have blower forcing air down exhaust to spin up turbo quicker[adding to the exhaust pressure]Have blower shut down above certain revs.The blower would not be a first stage in a two stage set up but only there to boost pressure early on in the turbo,so enable you to go larger turbo with lower turbo lag.Most likely it wouldn,t work but it just came to me.No time to think it out,just typed.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: PARALLEL Twincharging, whatever....
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Thu, 25 August 2005 11:06
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what about using somthing like a davies craig elec water pump and controller.
maybe there si some technology they use that can be used over to the sc setup,
here are the specs
Technical Specifications:
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Input Voltage. 12V DC to 14.5V DV
Output Voltage. 3V to 12V
Max. Current. 7.5A
Operating Temperature. -20 C to 60 C (-5 F to 140 F)
Controller Type. Circuit Board with Microprocessor and Programmable Chip
Sensor Type. Thermal Coolant Sensor in water-proof housing
Controller Weight. 300 g (10 oz)
Dimensions. 95 mm (H) x 65 mm (W) x 50 mm (D) 3-3/4" (H) x 2-9/16" (W) x 2" (D)
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what type of clutch is the SC14 clutch, is it a friction clutch, or elec
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: PARALLEL Twincharging, whatever....
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Thu, 25 August 2005 11:27
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| choofa wrote on Thu, 25 August 2005 20:46 |
Have blower forcing air down exhaust to spin up turbo quicker[adding to the exhaust pressure]Have blower shut down above certain revs.The blower would not be a first stage in a two stage set up but only there to boost pressure early on in the turbo,so enable you to go larger turbo with lower turbo lag.Most likely it wouldn,t work but it just came to me.
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1) you still lose HP from the crank to drive it..at these rpm, you may be using up to half the engines power output to drive the SC!!
2) hot exhaust has 3 times the volume (roughly) than room temp air.
3) you still have lag.. maybe moreso now that you are using a low comp motor to spin an airpump.
4) why not use the SC to effectively double the amount of exhaust, rather than increasing it by maybe 30%.. AND have more than double the crank output to drive the car?...
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No time to think it out,just typed.
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 reminds me of Homer... "no time Flanders, i've got something something to do"
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