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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Turkish Grandprix
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Mon, 22 August 2005 04:33
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Was watching a bit of the coverage last night, and one thing that springs to mind is it appears to be a pretty cool track, ie few passing ops, quick circuit nice long straight, good run off area, ie even with a popped tyre heidfield barely got into the marbles.
One comment you had to love though was when they were talking about The Schumacher Webber incident, and they said it was uncharacteristic of Michael to hit someone. So how'd he win his first championship then bwahahahahahaha i think they have short term memory, and its not the first time this season his traded blows with another driver (Imola i recall an incident in the early stages) and when Daemon Hill was racing it was easier to count the times they didn't crash then didn't
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Mon, 22 August 2005 04:58
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and then he nearly turned into someone later also...
poor guy is losing it... i didn't really understand what the commentators were saying (in nihongo  ), but it looked like webbers wheel was less than halfway up the side (hit those little wing things).. but he did just turn in....
i thought it was a daring move on webbers part... a good racing move, but i guess michael saw it differently
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Mon, 22 August 2005 05:05
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They must've meant that it's "uncharacteristic of Michael to hit someone by accident"... 
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Mon, 22 August 2005 05:06
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| Nark wrote on Mon, 22 August 2005 15:05 |
They must've meant that it's "uncharacteristic of Michael to hit someone by accident"...
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oooooh thems fightin' words
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Location:
NSW Engadine
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Mon, 22 August 2005 05:10
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I fell asleep as I usually do... What were the placings???
I love watching the warm up laps, I dont know why, but I reckon you get a good gauge of the handling capabilities and the power that they have... Oh and the qualifiying... But the actual race gets a bit boring after the first few laps...
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Mon, 22 August 2005 05:14
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01 K. Räikkönen McLaren 1:24:34.454
02 F. Alonso Renault + 18.609
03 JP. Montoya McLaren + 19.635
04 G. Fisichella Renault + 37.973
05 J. Button BAR + 39.304
06 J. Trulli Toyota + 55.420
07 D. Coulthard Red Bull + 1:09.296
08 C. Klien Red Bull + 1:11.622
09 T. Sato BAR + 1:49.987
10 R. Barrichello Ferrari + 1 laps
11 J. Villeneuve Sauber + 1 laps
12 R. Schumacher Toyota + 1 laps
13 R. Doornbos Minardi + 3 laps
14 N. Karthikeyan Jordan + 3 laps
15 T. Monteiro Jordan + 3 laps
Did not finish
16 C. Albers Minardi + 10 laps
17 M. Schumacher Ferrari + 26 laps
18 N. Heidfeld Williams + 29 laps
19 F. Massa Sauber + 30 laps
20 M. Webber Williams + 38 laps
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Mon, 22 August 2005 05:36
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| oldcorollas wrote on Mon, 22 August 2005 14:58 |
and then he nearly turned into someone later also...
poor guy is losing it... i didn't really understand what the commentators were saying (in nihongo ), but it looked like webbers wheel was less than halfway up the side (hit those little wing things).. but he did just turn in....
i thought it was a daring move on webbers part... a good racing move, but i guess michael saw it differently
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Webber was almost completely alongside as they turned in, however Webber had to burn Mucho Grande' speed due to his tighter line, which is why Schumi edged ahead slightly when they made contact. M.S. could have left Webber room to gather it up, and still had the line into the next corner. Thing is, I don't think schumi expected Webber to be there.
Is someone forgetting Melbourne this year?  Any recollection of M.Schumi exiting the pits, going down the next straight and then squeezing Heidfeld onto the grass while braking for Turn 3 ? ? ? 
Yup - M.Schumacher is a repeat-offending BASTARD! (I still respect and enjoy his hektik mad-skeelzzz) 
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Location:
NSW Engadine
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Mon, 22 August 2005 05:37
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Cheers, Go Trulli!
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Location:
Gold Coast, QLD
Registered:
April 2004
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Mon, 22 August 2005 07:03
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i want some new commentators. id rather hear cromly commentate the entire race than those 2 pommy fags. what the fuck has martin brundle ever done? the only thing anyone remembers him for was rolling it at the first corner of melbourne years ago, hes nowhere. they make heaps of mistakes, constantly dis webber (he makes no bones about dissliking him fair enough) talks up schumi the whole time and in typical pommy fashion thinks the pom drivers are the shit. sure, buttons good but if you go by what they are saying hes the only guy racing.
brundles a wanker, gives me the shits 
ok im done.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Mon, 22 August 2005 07:14
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Martin Brundle is also Trulli's manager hence he always talks him up, he did this heaps at the end of last year even when he sucked massively.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Mon, 22 August 2005 07:28
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yeh i watched the lot had to take today off work because of it. lol. i thought it was an awesome track to begin with. and was definately expecting something more from the toyota drivers. especially trulli, who had a pretty good poll position.
and what about the mclarens with the tyre punctures on both their cars.. lol. wonder what it was.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Mon, 22 August 2005 07:29
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| BlackGT4 wrote on Mon, 22 August 2005 17:28 |
and what about the mclarens with the tyre punctures on both their cars.. lol. wonder what it was.
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Williams
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Mon, 22 August 2005 08:14
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lol yeh sorry. got confused.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Mon, 22 August 2005 08:24
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Was reading motor the other day and they had a quote from i think the director of cosworth who said they have the new 2.4L V8 up and running redy for next year.
It's producing over 700hp at 24000rpm  , sweet. Thing i don't get though is that cylinder capacity is still exactly the as the current V10 ie 300cc per cylinder and they rev to 19000rpm, so i'm assuming in a bid to try and make as much power as possible that have gone for an uber short stroke motor to allow the motor to rev its tits off.
(Oldcorollas) thoughts and opinions on this.
Was cool to see the telemetry on the renault cars, seemed to be shifting anywhere between 18-19krpm down the straights also the g-force meter is cool. With the new regs were the 7 speed boxes banned or was it only ever ferrari who used them as the renault definatley only had six. Would this be another thing we will see more of in the future ie more 7+ speed boxes to keep the lower capacity engines in peak operating rpm.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Mon, 22 August 2005 08:38
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Yeah probably shorter stroke, better balance, and stronger internals. Smaller cam too, making all that lighter and easier to revv (less change of it exploding).
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Mon, 22 August 2005 08:46
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funny you should say that.. i was thinking about this while watching, wondering if they would ever go to 8 gears, and if the advantage vs time lost during shifting would be worth it..
as for the stroke vs rpm thing...
there is kind of a material limit on piston speed of (iirc) 5000ft/min, but it is basically determined by the materials used for the rods as it is the rod, in tension, that must survive.
the problem with going to shorter stroke is a) less torque, and b) heavier pistons. w/r b, this means that you are swinging a higher load faster, but less far... and the forces increase with the square of speed, so it gets pretty significant pretty quickly..
to keep the power they have to increase rpm, because they are restricted in how much torque they can make. a quick calc says they are getting around 280Nm from 2.4L, that sounds about right. i would've expected closer to 300 (Bill S and other say 100ftlbs which is more like 320nm)
as for loads on rods.. i cbf calculating right now but if they have a fancy new piston design/alloy to reduce loading, that will help..
i just wonder how wide the power band will be? 3000rpm? 4000rpm?
and how the poor valve train is going to cope eith the increase in loading..
as for rpm, the CBR250 bikes run at 19000rpm.. and the S2000 has similar piston speed to (possibly older) F1 motors of around the magic 5000ft/min mark...
fwiw, most normal engines only go to around 3500-4000ft/min
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Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Mon, 22 August 2005 13:00
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I watched the race,
was sad to see Raikkonen lose his pole after the lights went off, and dissappointing for Montoya fuck up during turn 8, that's a really fucked corner though!
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Location:
Dubbo
Registered:
April 2005
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Mon, 22 August 2005 23:16
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Hehe yep your right they run a pnueamatic setup.
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Tue, 23 August 2005 03:06
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Hi,
Suck shit Montoya! He's a dick.
Webber is a bit of a dick also. He's hit more cars and done more stupid overtaking attempts in his short career than Shuey in all his career.
Webber just needs to settle down a bit and have some patience. He's a damn good driver and he'll get there, but he's gotta take it a bit easy and not be such a hot-head at times.
Sato makes me laugh.
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
Dubbo
Registered:
April 2005
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Tue, 23 August 2005 03:14
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webber is agressive, so what?! i think it is a welcome change from most of the drivers who seem scared to throw one up beside another driver (excluding montoya)...only thing he needs is to be a smidgen less optimistic, and also for schuey not to turn into him...cuase at turn in webber woulda almost been level with schuey and schuey just started to cut him off so he woulda been still on the brakes trying to pull out of it (one would hope)
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Tue, 23 August 2005 04:49
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| Roundy wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 08:54 |
umm unless the rules have changed a bit for next yr they don't have 'cams' it is all pneumatic i believe, therefore the valves open and close for the exact duration and lift to make the most power at that RPM range...tho i am amazed that they can open and shut a valve 12000 times per minute, that is just HUGE
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The explaination, as I understand it:
They have Camshafts, with small pneumatic cylinders acting as Valve-springs. The main purpose of running these is to avoid the high-RPM harmonics which send conventional Valve-springs into uncontrollable ValveBounce above 14,000RPM (or thereabouts).
I THINK the 4-stroke, 4Cylinder 250cc bikes get away with 19,000RPM because they have tiny cylinders, and hence tiny valves, which are relatively easy to control. Hell - make a V12 to the same specs and you've still only got a 750cc motor ! ! !
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Tue, 23 August 2005 05:00
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| EVOSTi wrote on Mon, 22 August 2005 17:03 |
i want some new commentators. id rather hear cromly commentate the entire race than those 2 pommy fags. what the fuck has martin brundle ever done? the only thing anyone remembers him for was rolling it at the first corner of melbourne years ago, hes nowhere. they make heaps of mistakes, constantly dis webber (he makes no bones about dissliking him fair enough) talks up schumi the whole time and in typical pommy fashion thinks the pom drivers are the shit. sure, buttons good but if you go by what they are saying hes the only guy racing.
brundles a wanker, gives me the shits
ok im done.
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Actually, I've gotten the impression that Brundle is a Webber fan - He always sounds happy for him when He's qualified well or something. I'm SURE that Brundle thinks He's got talent and speed going to waste at Williams. I think the TRUCK-SIZED KNOB in the commentary box is James Allen..... . . . .....He's always making mistakes, and saying stuff that's just plain wrong!
I say we find a way to limit Revs (minimum piston weight??) to around 12,000rpm, and bring back the sweet, sweet sounding V12, and 5-speed gearboxes. Dump teh downforce and bring back wide-track suspension and PHAT SLIKXZ!
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Location:
Sydney NSW
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Tue, 23 August 2005 05:22
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I agree, James Allan is a tosser, and Brundle was good when he had just come from driving, and he had plenty of info to share from the drivers perspective, but now he's getting a bit blahhhhh.
BUT, can anyone remember Dr Jonathan Palmer, What a supreme mega tosspot scrotum he was!!!! Made me want to mute the telly every time he opened his trap.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Tue, 23 August 2005 06:15
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| st184 sillycar wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 14:49 |
| Roundy wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 08:54 |
umm unless the rules have changed a bit for next yr they don't have 'cams' it is all pneumatic i believe, therefore the valves open and close for the exact duration and lift to make the most power at that RPM range...tho i am amazed that they can open and shut a valve 12000 times per minute, that is just HUGE
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The explaination, as I understand it:
They have Camshafts, with small pneumatic cylinders acting as Valve-springs. The main purpose of running these is to avoid the high-RPM harmonics which send conventional Valve-springs into uncontrollable ValveBounce above 14,000RPM (or thereabouts).
I THINK the 4-stroke, 4Cylinder 250cc bikes get away with 19,000RPM because they have tiny cylinders, and hence tiny valves, which are relatively easy to control. Hell - make a V12 to the same specs and you've still only got a 750cc motor ! ! !
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yup, the wire springs have a) too much inertia, and b) get hot VERY VERY quickly...
http://scarbsf1.com/valves.html
http://www.f1technical.net/article4.html
although Renault have developed a camless system, i don't thnk it has made it to a race yet.. hmm nope.. here's the current engine
ABOUT THE CBR205RR
yar the valves only move a few mm and are tiny as well... the pistons also move buggerall.. maybe 40mm?
[Updated on: Tue, 23 August 2005 07:18]
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Tue, 23 August 2005 06:25
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ooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh that is one mighty fine engine 40mm stroke hmmm i doubt they could reduce that too much more for the smaller capacity V8's.
I am contemplating going to melbourne next year, would be interesting to see the first year of the V8's probably a lot of mech failures but man would they scream.
Though some of the slower teams (actually anyone can run a rev limited V10 next year) wonder what rpm and how many teams will actually run this. I'd take a stab and say 15000rpm
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Location:
Gold Coast, QLD
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Wed, 24 August 2005 00:02
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River I agree with you about Webber (except I don't think he's a dick, lol) - I am a huge fan of Webber's and I want to see him do well (and I have no doubt he will) but this season has seen him go downhill a bit. When he was a Jaguar he was impressing everybody, his driving was very mature, he kept out of trouble and he wrung the very best out of the car. This year he has been a bit hot headed and been involved in a few too many incidents (many of which have been his fault).
I think he is getting a bit frustrated with Williams' slide down the grid this season and has been trying to overcompensate a little. The last thing he needs is to tick Sir Frank off to the point where he is dumped by the team, he'd be lucky to get a drive with anyone after that. Regularly bringing the car home in a points paying position and beating Heidfeld will impress the right people and secure his future more than overambitious overtaking attempts that end in tears.
I agree that James Allen is a tool, his attempts at oversensationalising everything just drive me crazy. (I usually mute the TV at the start, just so I don't have to listen to him yell "GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" every damn time the lights go off.) I think he is trying too hard to fill Murray Walker's position and match his enthusiasm, but he just come off sounding stupid. James makes so many mistakes I sometimes wonder if he has been following F1 at all. True, Murray made mistakes but at least it was entertaining and he always graciously corrected himself. Oh well, it's still entertaining these days when Brundle corrects him and makes him look stupid. I do enjoy Brundle, his experience makes him very knowledgeable and he manages to counter James' dumb comments with his professionalism. However, the pro-British bias they both posess is a bit annoying, but then what do you expect from two poms commentating primarily for the British public. Murray Walker was just the same with Mansell and Hill.
Matt
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Location:
Dubbo
Registered:
April 2005
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Wed, 24 August 2005 00:13
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I can thoroughly recommend going to the melbourne grand prix, i have been for the last 3 yrs and nothing compares to it! It is just plain AWESOME at the track, they are super quick, super load, and you get to see a lot of the race cause superscreens are everywhere.
I reckon one of the best things they have at the grand prix is the ultimate speed comparison, that is just plain cool! and really shows how slow the V8 'Supercars' are 
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Wed, 24 August 2005 00:24
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its gonna either be next year or the year after, depends on $$$ cos i will have just of bought a new car round that stage i hope so i might be short. Hehe yeah you can tell the speed comparison just by watching the telly, the v8's look like they are following the speed limit.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Wed, 24 August 2005 01:28
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| Roundy wrote on Wed, 24 August 2005 10:13 |
I can thoroughly recommend going to the melbourne grand prix, i have been for the last 3 yrs and nothing compares to it! It is just plain AWESOME at the track, they are super quick, super load, and you get to see a lot of the race cause superscreens are everywhere.
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Race. Pffft.
If you live in/around Melbourne, take yourself along to Friday or Saturday next year. Heaps of support-race and F1 practice action to be had. For Me, raceday involves too much waiting around for grid photos, driver parades etc... 
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Wed, 24 August 2005 01:33
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indeed, same with Bathurst, race day ends up in a farse cos of pace cars etc, the best action is on the friday and saturday. Though cos raceday is a bit longer its also pretty good. Other thing about raceday is it is generally just so packed that it kinda sucks, ie you sit somewhere all day and watch the race rather than walk around the track and view from many vantage points.
Whats it like interms of spectating, the V8's at canberra (street races arghh) shitted me to know end, they had advertising banners and big fuck off fences on the insider of the corners which meant you couldn't see through the corners to watch the action, you either saw entry/middle or exit but you couldn't view any two from the same spot.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Wed, 24 August 2005 01:44
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Who's going to Bathurst this year? I'll be atop the mountain, although I might pop-down to the new viewing mound at the entry to the chase one morning. I've always wanted to get up-close and personal with 1350kg of tin-top at 295km/h through a flat-out kink!!
p.s. Also love watching the cars go light, wiggle, then compress over/through Sulman/Reid park (where Lowndes backed the HRT into the wall years ago).
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Wed, 24 August 2005 01:49
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I may or may not be going, gotta see if my contacts can get me free tickets again. Generally we sit on the inside of the chase cos we have paddock passes as well. Haven't been to the top of the mountain yet, only been twice.
If we go we hope to camp on the outside of the chase in the camping groun there (less ferals). We stayed at the caravan park last time we camped but it was on the side of a fucking hill which made it very hard to sleep, ie kept on rolling into the side of the icy cold tent.
Year befor that we stayed in a motel in Orange. Why isn't that when you stay in a motel its hot ie 27 degrees everyday vs camping when it was lucky to hit 10 and snowing at oberon.
Didn't go last year cos of the HSC 
First year was probably the best one cos skaife one yay and two because it hailed at the bottom of the chase and wasn't at the top of the hill, first time down conrod they all went off hilarious.
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Wed, 24 August 2005 04:31
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missus bought us tix to melbourne this year for my birthday, it was rad
i recommend splashing out on the extra $$$ for a granstand ticket with a view of a screen. thursday to saturday isnt so bad on a general admission cause you can walk around and find good spots but on sunday you find a spot and you dont move the whole race cause you wont get it back again.
cant go next year unfortunately cause im going to the goldcoast in december and the snow next winter, so i shouldnt blow all my money on holidays
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Wed, 24 August 2005 04:38
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Hehe yeah i'd love to go next year being first year of the v8's but i have a feeling i won't have the $$$ one more year won't hurt.
The thing i find with motor racing, is you can get a better view on telly but nothing beats the atmosphere of being there. Take a walk down pitlane at Bathurst watching the cars being worked on, pissing your slef laughing as the engineers blip the throttle rolling out of pitlane and the ppl walking in front of the car shit emselves.
The inside of the chase shits me in a way it cost more $$$ to sit in there but you can't see a big screen not that i pay for my tickets and i refuse to at the prices they want for a day at the V8's now.
In year ten i did Bathurst for the first time, Canberra oran park and almost went to gold coast for Indi but it was like a week befor the school certificate. So much cheaper when all you need to pay for is accomodation/flights and food, although at indi we were gonna get free accomadation to.
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Location:
Sydney NSW
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Wed, 24 August 2005 05:20
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Corona, If you go to the top of the mountain, drive the RT142 up there for seating, It'll be completely safe, and wont get burnt to the ground by insane V8 fans or anything
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Wed, 24 August 2005 05:22
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no shit least i have 4 stud tyres though so they should be safe from getting stolen. Nah if we went i wouldn't be driving, be there in an astra SRI, we be camping on the side of conrod and either walking or catching the bus up the top for a look
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turkish Grandprix
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Thu, 25 August 2005 01:59
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On the pneumatic valve thing, I had a chance to check out some old Arrows pneumatic valve setups and they are a very nice thing. So simple, so light, just brilliant..
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