Author | Topic |
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Registered: July 2004
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18RGEU
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Tue, 23 August 2005 06:20
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Hi guys i was just wondering what is the compression ratio on these engines? Also what is a fair price for one of these with or without a gearbox? I have been quoted $1200 without gearbox, ecu and loom and $1650 with gearbox but no ecu and loom. Are these fair prices? New at these engines so any info at all would help. Also are these a straight swap for an 18RC? Do they bolt up to the gearbox/drivetrain?
Thanks
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 18RGEU
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Tue, 23 August 2005 06:49
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1. 8.3:1
2. Prices are at the upper end of the scale. I'd only pay that if they were in excellent condition.
3. Yes they are as close to a straight swap as you'll get. The block casting is identical so it will bolt straight into the engine bay, but of course there will be minor differences with stuff like fuel lines, throttle linkages, radiator outlets etc.
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Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Registered: July 2004
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Re: 18RGEU
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Tue, 23 August 2005 19:01
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Cool. Thanks heaps for your help champ. The engine apparently has about 20,000kms on the original clock so i'd say its in pretty good nick. Thanks again for the info.
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Location: Townsville North Qld
Registered: June 2003
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Re: 18RGEU
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Tue, 23 August 2005 23:35
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i wouldnt get it without ecu, as an ecu is expensive. I also wouldnt get it if you want a powerful Naturally Aspirated engine, as you can get a good early 18RG with 9.7:1 compression for cheaper than that. even though they have carbs, they are still good for an extra 16 neddies before modification. Another engine to watch out for is the impotent 18RGU, which has a mild 9.1:1 compression, and problematic carbs. This has about the same power output as the 18RGEU but without the efi. Also a note on the milage, early toyotas had a 100,000km clock, which means you can never tell if its 20000, 120000, 220000, 320000 etc, you get my drift. also, the 18RGU/EU had shitty mild cams... not the sort you want for a performance engine.
as well as the throttle linkages and fuel lines, the exhaust manifold is different too. As for the radiator outlets... you can use your standard radiator, just you need to use the thermostat housing upper casting from a KE series corolla, Kilkenny Castings part number WO31 available from any supercheap or autobarn store. Then your standard 18RC upper hose fits when you rotate it.
anyways, thats my 2c. if your going to turbocharge it, get the 18RGEU, pay for some new cams to be made and dont make it produce any more than 300hp without internal mods.
Cheers, Owen
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 18RGEU
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Tue, 23 August 2005 23:41
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LTJET wrote on Wed, 24 August 2005 05:01 | The engine apparently has about 20,000kms on the original clock so i'd say its in pretty good nick.
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I wouldn't make that assumption. The 18R-GEU stopped production over 20 years ago, so the chances of finding one with 20k on the clock are basically nil. Get the engine checked over carefully before you pay your money.
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Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Registered: July 2004
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Re: 18RGEU
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Wed, 24 August 2005 10:57
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I was going to use it for turbo convertion anyway so i was going to change the cams and also i would need to use a programmable ecu as well so if it came with an ecu then i would need a new one anyway. This is quoted from the supplier of the 18rgeu. This engine is definately an 18RGEU. This is what the supplier said they do before selling their engines "We do a leakage test and check bores with a fiber optic scope." Would this be sufficient to say the engine is in a decent condition?
Sorry guys im new to EFI and the 18RG series engines. Thanks for all the help though. Much appreciated.
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Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Registered: July 2004
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: June 2003
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Re: 18RGEU
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Wed, 24 August 2005 13:43
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You shouldn't need to change the cams from an 18RGEU for turbo, they are well suited to it actually.
The 18RGEUs that I've seen have weaker conrods than earlier models, that would not be so good for high boost turbo.
The main problem with these engines is corrocion in the water ports that run into the block. No way to check them without taking off the head.
The gearbox, if original would most likely be a w55.
The ECU and loom are really hard to come by.
Just out of interest, is this for sale through Adelaide Jap importers? They were trying to sell me the same set up a while ago for $1600 each, then more recently for $800 each.
They had two to choose from, but no airflow meter for either.
They wanted $275 for the ECU...I don't think so.
I've never heared a good report about that place, selling engines with bent/burnt valves etc.
I hope the deal is genuine for you and it all works out in your favour, as Norbie said, check carefully.
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Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Registered: July 2004
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Re: 18RGEU
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Wed, 24 August 2005 16:11
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I don't intend to run insane levels just yet. I'm looking at about 7-15psi for the moment. Nah its not in adelaide but thanks for the heads up. The place is in Sydney actually. Would the w55 be a better gearbox to use os should i stick to the stock RA28 box? I dont know much about the gearbox codes.
This is a little off the topic but would the tail shaft hook up without dramas to the w55 if i were to get the box as well?
Thanks all for the help and info. Just trying to see if this is a good and easy enough option for me to do at home or not. Rebuilding a car is never cheap so i may as well do a proper job the first time around.
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 18RGEU
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Wed, 24 August 2005 23:35
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The original RA28 5-speed (W50) should cope fine, although you'll need a much better clutch of course. The W55 is a better gearbox but with the W50 you don't have to worry about the tailshaft or the position of the shifter.
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: June 2003
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Re: 18RGEU
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Fri, 26 August 2005 08:14
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The W55 is a stronger gearbox than the standard RA28 W50 box.
The ratios are different too.
You'll have no clutch issues, no tail shaft issues.
The only issues you'll have are:
The bolt up point to the gearbox crossmember is different, easily fixed though with a bit of 5mm steel plate, a dril and a couple of bolts.
Basically, the bolt up points are further towards the rear of the car to the point that the front pair of holes in the crossmember bolt up in the rear pair of holes in the body.
The other issue is making sure that you have the 18" shifter position. From the bellhousing to the shifter there are a number of lengths available in the W55/57/58 boxes.
If it's going into an RA28 or similar, you'll need the 18" measurement on the extension housing.
To easily identify this:
If the gear sticks bolt on housing extends rerward past the end of the gearbox, over the dust shield, you'll have to done some cutting in your floor pan.
Unfortunately, the 18" position means that you may have issues with the gearstick getting too close to the centre console in 1st, 3rd and 5th gears.
This can be overcome. we cut, reangled and welded the gearstick.
W55 gearboxes are nice to use with 18Rgs as they have quite a low first gear, so that dead spot in the lower ranges doesn't make as marked a difference in taking off.
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Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Registered: July 2004
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Re: 18RGEU
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Sat, 27 August 2005 15:40
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What other sizes do they come in? If it issn't the 18" shifter position how hard will it be to fit? Is it just easier to upgrade the clutch and use my W50 box?
I spoke to a performance place down here in melbourne and apparently forged pistons for 18rgeu's are extremely hard to find. Actually his exact words were "any turbo equipment (eg. pistons, gaskets, etc etc) for an 18RGEU was extremely hard to get." Is this correct?
Thanks heaps guys
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Location: Geelong, Vic
Registered: November 2004
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Re: 18RGEU
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Sun, 28 August 2005 01:47
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If you have the money you can find the parts...$$$$$$$$$
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: June 2003
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Re: 18RGEU
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Sun, 28 August 2005 02:53
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Pistons are available for US$500 ish plus about US$60 postage through Toysport (if they ever return your messages).
Gaskets are available through Toysport also, copper ones.
Alternatively, ACL Eagle Farm branch can do custom gaskets.
You should be able to use a STD design oversize gasket if you o-ring the block. I plan to do that.
$30/bore for those gaskets.
I've done a bit of reserarch about this type of stuff. If you have any questions, let me know and I might be able to answer your questions.
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Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Registered: July 2004
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Re: 18RGEU
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Sun, 28 August 2005 15:37
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Awesome. Thanks heaps Steve M. Really appreciate it.
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: June 2003
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Re: 18RGEU
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Sun, 28 August 2005 17:19
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Hey, if you're building a turbo 18RG, you might want to go in on a group buy for custom head studs that we're organising at the moment. I've been told that the original head bolts stretch after a while running boost.
PM me if your intersted. The price is $200 if we can get enough people, otherwise it would cost $400 for one set.
YelloRolla is organising the actual purchase.
As for your gearbox questions, the longer shift lengths will go in, you'll just have to cut a bit of a hole in the transmission tunnel in you floor pan. It's been done successfully before, just that your centre console might not quite line up properly again.
I reckon the longest position is about 21". 3 inches isn't much to make up, it might even make it better to drive. The gearknob on the W55 that we got is a fair way forward of where the old W50 one was just due to stick angle.
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Location: Tamworth
Registered: August 2004
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Re: 18RGEU
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Mon, 29 August 2005 10:07
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I am geussing that the w55's that came with 18rgs came from the ra40?
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 18RGEU
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Mon, 29 August 2005 22:49
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No, that would have to be from the RA63 Celica/Carina. The RA40's still used the W50/P51.
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Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Registered: July 2004
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Re: 18RGEU
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Wed, 31 August 2005 10:08
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Another quick question is all the wiring for the 18RC the same as the 18RGEU? As in starter motor connections etc etc or will i need an auto elec to rewire a whole new system for it?
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