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Brisbane
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May 2004
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 12 September 2005 09:48
 
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time behind wheel = experience = *BETTER* driver.
the amount of improvement, and where this improvement plateaus, is entirely dependant on genetics and the conscious effort to learn put in by the driver.
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Club Member
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 12 September 2005 09:57
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| draven wrote on Mon, 12 September 2005 19:48 |
time behind wheel = experience = *BETTER* driver.
the amount of improvement, and where this improvement plateaus, is entirely dependant on genetics and the conscious effort to learn put in by the driver.
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Couldn't have said it any better...
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Location:
Brisbane
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May 2004
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 12 September 2005 09:57
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Ok, that's a fair enough point in some ways. However, a lot of the shocking driving habits I see on the road seem to be things drivers aquire over time. The effects of complacency and "I'm a safe driver because I'm old and I haven't had a speeding fine in 10 years" are all to evident.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 12 September 2005 09:59
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true in some cases undoubtably, but we're generalising here.. and in general, people get at least a bit better with a few years experience up their sleeves.
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Location:
Brisbane
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May 2004
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 12 September 2005 10:00
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lol Ben...
| Rolla Boy wrote on Mon, 12 September 2005 19:57 |
| draven wrote on Mon, 12 September 2005 19:48 |
time behind wheel = experience = *BETTER* driver.
the amount of improvement, and where this improvement plateaus, is entirely dependant on genetics and the conscious effort to learn put in by the driver.
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Couldn't have said it any better...
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...
"download my burnout video here"
haha jj 
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Location:
Kellyville, Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 12 September 2005 10:09
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it also depends on your idea of what a good driver is.
to the rta/police this is people who dont get fines or get in accidents (and includes old farts who drive everywhere at 20km/h under the speed limit).
to many young enthusiasts this is people who can handle there car well in extreme or difficult circumstances (and includes people who drive everywhere at 20km/h over the speed limit).
chris
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Location:
Brisbane
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May 2004
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 12 September 2005 10:10
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I guess all these debates come back to the concept of catering for the lowest common denominator.
E.g. There is a proportion of p-platers who have taken a proper interest in driving, and easily posses the skills required to drive a turbo rwd car sensibly, but one p-plater somewhere, at some stage, screwed up and killed himself and others.
Having said that though, and recognising the fact that policy makers consider the most likely circumstances and legislate via the law of averages, doesn't anyone else wonder why the continue to ignore the one commonality between every report/case study/opinion regarding the p-plate/hoon debate - increased driver training?
In all seriousness, it seems to be the one factor that every involved party seems to agree upon, but we have yet to see a single change in this field.
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Location:
Kellyville, Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 12 September 2005 10:13
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| white86 wrote on Mon, 12 September 2005 20:10 |
I guess all these debates come back to the concept of catering for the lowest common denominator.
E.g. There is a proportion of p-platers who have taken a proper interest in driving, and easily posses the skills required to drive a turbo rwd car sensibly, but one p-plater somewhere, at some stage, screwed up and killed himself and others.
Having said that though, and recognising the fact that policy makers consider the most likely circumstances and legislate via the law of averages, doesn't anyone else wonder why the continue to ignore the one commonality between every report/case study/opinion regarding the p-plate/hoon debate - increased driver training?
In all seriousness, it seems to be the one factor that every involved party seems to agree upon, but we have yet to see a single change in this field.
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that is because driver training costs money whereas increasing fines and bullshit regulations makes money. its sad, but dont hold your breath for a change in that regard.
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Location:
Adelaide
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June 2003
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 12 September 2005 10:14
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it also depends on your definition of a good driver
my personal definition would run something along the lines of: someone with the ability to control the car well, and know how it will respond in emergency situations, who knows the limits of their car in a performance situation, and who does not get in the way of or endanger other road users
on the other hand your local copper might think a good driver is: someone who never exceeds the speed limit, and obeys all the road rules
my point is that being a good driver includes both your physical ability to handle the vehicle, and your ability to observe what is legal (even if its below what you would consider to be safe) and you would think in both these cases that having experience beyond p' plates would increase your ability to be a good driver
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Location:
Brisbane
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May 2004
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 12 September 2005 10:15
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Ok, so what IS a good driver?
In my opinion its a combination of attitude + raw skills + knowledge of the rules.
Attitude is a concept that spans both "safety" and "common courtesy". Raw skills includes knowing how to handle a car in difficult situations, as well as knowledge of the fundaments of handling etc and being comfortable in any situation behind the wheel.
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Location:
Dubbo
Registered:
April 2005
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 12 September 2005 10:38
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well i think you are missing a key point,
driving within the limits of the car is good, but i would wager that 90% of all drivers on the road wouldn't be able to drive their car to the limit.
I feel a good driver is
Situational awareness + good car control + knowledge of own and machines limit + knowledge of rules.
Good car control is, of course, subject to a wide variety of meanings, but in general, as long as they know what to do when they have locked brakes, and have understeer/oversteer, that should be the bare minimum.
Also about driver training, those 'hoons' who get the training will probably be even more self confident and sure of themselves afterwards and hence could be even more of a threat, even tho they know what to do if the shit hits the fan
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Location:
Brisbane
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May 2004
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 12 September 2005 10:57
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| Roundy wrote on Mon, 12 September 2005 20:38 |
well i think you are missing a key point,
driving within the limits of the car is good, but i would wager that 90% of all drivers on the road wouldn't be able to drive their car to the limit.
I feel a good driver is
Situational awareness + good car control + knowledge of own and machines limit + knowledge of rules.
Good car control is, of course, subject to a wide variety of meanings, but in general, as long as they know what to do when they have locked brakes, and have understeer/oversteer, that should be the bare minimum.
Also about driver training, those 'hoons' who get the training will probably be even more self confident and sure of themselves afterwards and hence could be even more of a threat, even tho they know what to do if the shit hits the fan
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I don't quite understand what key point that I'm missing. The first 3 parts of your good driver equation all fall under my "raw skills" term.
I think your argument about the false sense of confidence instilled by driver training is flawed. Do you think that driver training is sticking young people on a race track and saying "this is how you go fast"? It involves many aspects which aim to both increase basic skills, as well as educate on the REAL effects of speed etc on a car.
It is narrow-minded to think that "hoons" will use the driver training to create even more dangerous situations on the road. You're merely subscribing to a stereotype that "hoons" are irresponsible.
If you agree that there is an attitude problem at the centre of this debate, how do you propose to change these attitudes? Personally, the things that effect my attitudes the most are things that happen in front of my eyes. I'd learn more from driver training than being banned from driving a certain car any day.
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Location:
Brisbane
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February 2003
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 12 September 2005 11:19
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| draven wrote on Mon, 12 September 2005 19:48 |
time behind wheel = experience = *EXPERIENCED* driver.
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fixed.
but... experience doesn't make you a better driver - you're just more experienced at following thru with your (sometimes bad) habits and learnt 'instincts'.
Like an 'experienced smoker' you know how to inhale smoke without coughing- but does it make you a better person for being experienced?
Good drivers are always learning how to drive better and safer. They're also learning and watching the environment and other vehicles around them.
Good drivers are not just watching out for themselves, they're considering pedestrians, other road users, road maintainers and road-law enforcers in every action they take.
cheers, Charles (experienced in driving for >15 years, but probably no better than the rest of you youngsters)
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Location:
Brisbane
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May 2004
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 12 September 2005 11:40
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| thechuckster wrote on Mon, 12 September 2005 21:19 |
| draven wrote on Mon, 12 September 2005 19:48 |
time behind wheel = experience = *EXPERIENCED* driver.
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fixed.
but... experience doesn't make you a better driver - you're just more experienced at following thru with your (sometimes bad) habits and learnt 'instincts'.
Like an 'experienced smoker' you know how to inhale smoke without coughing- but does it make you a better person for being experienced?
Good drivers are always learning how to drive better and safer. They're also learning and watching the environment and other vehicles around them.
Good drivers are not just watching out for themselves, they're considering pedestrians, other road users, road maintainers and road-law enforcers in every action they take.
cheers, Charles (experienced in driving for >15 years, but probably no better than the rest of you youngsters)
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smart words
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 12 September 2005 12:22
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I think there's a peak with most people.
They start crap, get better slowly, then start to get worse as their body starts to get old, their mind starts to wander, and they start getting over confidant and learn bad habits.
Although, I always used to think that people into cars where being unfairly branded. But then I actualy socialised with some of the more common 'hoons'... and yeah, I see why people think what they think. Auto driving idiots with no concept of how dangerous what they do is. People who don't even know what a pushrod is, let alone how many of them they have in their fully sick V8... or if they have them in their Hektic R33. 
There are also more than just good and bad.
There's good, safe, and slow.
Slow gets confused with good and safe. Slow just means when you have an accident, it probably wont be as bad... probably.
Safe is someone who can predict traffic conditions, and keeps in mind raod conditions when picking a speed to travel at (ie, will go at 60 in a 70 zone when it's not safe to do 70). I got nothing against safe drivers.
A good driver is someone who can handle their car, predict road conditions and easily push their car to the limit and bring it back. Although, good isn't neccisarily safe. I'd say most of you aren't as 'safe' as you are 'good'.
I'd say most drivers aren't as good or safe as they are slow and lucky.
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Location:
Bankstown
Registered:
August 2005
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 12 September 2005 22:49
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Yeah, most of this is true.
But there are other factors to be considered such has if your taking medication or have a alcohol level, if your tired from sport or work, and if you had a goods nights rest.
I admit that I'm a good driver now (not like takumi:D, safer driver has I no my limits), but learned from allot of my mistakes. Has time passes by you start to understand how the car will behave (tires, brakes, torque band, weight, etc).
Thats the big difference from a P plater that races he's GTR on the street, taking a tight turn realizing that the mighty 4wd GTR is massively over-steering into a tree. Next time, and thats if he survives, he will want to know own the car actually works, and then and only then he will learn.
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Location:
Dubbo
Registered:
April 2005
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 12 September 2005 23:25
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| white86 wrote on Mon, 12 September 2005 20:57 |
I don't quite understand what key point that I'm missing. The first 3 parts of your good driver equation all fall under my "raw skills" term.
I think your argument about the false sense of confidence instilled by driver training is flawed. Do you think that driver training is sticking young people on a race track and saying "this is how you go fast"? It involves many aspects which aim to both increase basic skills, as well as educate on the REAL effects of speed etc on a car.
It is narrow-minded to think that "hoons" will use the driver training to create even more dangerous situations on the road. You're merely subscribing to a stereotype that "hoons" are irresponsible.
If you agree that there is an attitude problem at the centre of this debate, how do you propose to change these attitudes? Personally, the things that effect my attitudes the most are things that happen in front of my eyes. I'd learn more from driver training than being banned from driving a certain car any day.
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I interpreted raw skills as just the skill to hold on to the car at/near the limit, and nothing to do with situational awareness that would make u a good driver on the road, and a good racer on the track.
I know driver training isn't teaching them to go fast, it does however greatly improve a drivers understanding of the limits of their car and themselves, and if a driver is already inclined to push their car hard, with the knowledge of how hard they can push (in controlled conditions) they could very well push their car to the limit on the road, which is more dangerous then before. Cause at the limit of adhesion the driver has no control over where the car is going in the next few meters, it is set in concrete through the physics of the car and inertia.
I do believe that it is the attitude that is the problem, and i 100% agree that seeing something will change it more then saying 'no high power cars'
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Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
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Location:
Bankstown
Registered:
August 2005
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 12 September 2005 23:43
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| illuminatus wrote on Tue, 13 September 2005 09:36 |
if you guys think that experiance is the highest contributing factor in making a good driver, then why is there 17yo guys driving racing cars(production gt class) and beating most of the old farts?
there are too many young fucks(im young myself) on the streets who have turbo v6 or v8 but have no idea how to drive, they just put the foot down in their auto and get up to 200km/h in a back street. i think thats the prob here, the 'standard' car in aust is nearly the biggest sedan around with a v6 that keeps pulling past 180(if u switch off speed limiter).
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I don't really want this to become another hoon debate, but I've heard some pretty arrogant unfounded comments from older members of the public when comparing their driving abilities to younger people.
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i think old people are arrogent towards young people all the time. they have the mentality that they have seen it all b4 and young ppl dont know shit. ive done it with people im older then lol.
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One day you will be old and arrogant to-wards young people 
Old people weren't born old 
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Tue, 13 September 2005 00:35
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| Quote: |
time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Lets move away from driving for a moment and use sport as an example. Some people play golf for 40 years and are barely any better than the year they began. Others improve quickly, move up the ranks and play pro in a matter of a few years.
Quite simply put if time was the only factor required to improve at any sport, skill or activity eventually everyone could be amazingly talented at what they do, and we all know this is not the case.
Natural ability, skill, talent and rate of improvement are just a few of the real world attributes that contribute to ones ability to perform well and make improvements.
I will leave you with this to ponder.....taxi drivers spend a lot of time behind the wheel and are some of the worst drivers on the road, why is this? 
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Location:
Bankstown
Registered:
August 2005
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Tue, 13 September 2005 00:46
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| ke382TG wrote on Tue, 13 September 2005 10:35 |
| Quote: |
time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Lets move away from driving for a moment and use sport as an example. Some people play golf for 40 years and are barely any better than the year they began. Others improve quickly, move up the ranks and play pro in a matter of a few years.
Quite simply put if time was the only factor required to improve at any sport, skill or activity eventually everyone could be amazingly talented at what they do, and we all know this is not the case.
Natural ability, skill, talent and rate of improvement are just a few of the real world attributes that contribute to ones ability to perform well and make improvements.
I will leave you with this to ponder.....taxi drivers spend a lot of time behind the wheel and are some of the worst drivers on the road, why is this?
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Very true, I like to compare this to studying.
It doesn't matter own smart you are, if you don't put the hours in studying, positively you will fail.
i have read in a past newspaper about a crack down in Sydney airport about illegal immigrants working has taxi drivers.
Also being a taxi driver is a job, they have to make money hence drive dangerously faster and are a bit more reckless.
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Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Tue, 13 September 2005 01:18
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| Dorio86 wrote on Tue, 13 September 2005 09:43 |
One day you will be old and arrogant to-wards young people
Old people weren't born old
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they where born older then me.. and they have ppl who are older then them, who give them shit, so they naturally give shit to us, and we give shit to ppl younger then us too. its the natural cycle.
ohh and most taxi drivers are all over the road, they dont drive dangerously faster cos they will loose their liscnce and not be able to work... they just dont care. (most of them anyways, i know a taxi driver who is acctaully a v good driver)
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Location:
Bankstown
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August 2005
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Tue, 13 September 2005 01:52
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| illuminatus wrote on Tue, 13 September 2005 11:18 |
| Dorio86 wrote on Tue, 13 September 2005 09:43 |
One day you will be old and arrogant to-wards young people
Old people weren't born old
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they where born older then me.. and they have ppl who are older then them, who give them shit, so they naturally give shit to us, and we give shit to ppl younger then us too. its the natural cycle.
ohh and most taxi drivers are all over the road, they dont drive dangerously faster cos they will loose their liscnce and not be able to work... they just dont care. (most of them anyways, i know a taxi driver who is acctaully a v good driver)
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Ok, ok, I agree. Now go back to class.
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Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Tue, 13 September 2005 06:03
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| Dorio86 wrote on Tue, 13 September 2005 10:46 |
| ke382TG wrote on Tue, 13 September 2005 10:35 |
Lets move away from driving for a moment and use sport as an example. Some people play golf for 40 years and are barely any better than the year they began. Others improve quickly, move up the ranks and play pro in a matter of a few years.
Quite simply put if time was the only factor required to improve at any sport, skill or activity eventually everyone could be amazingly talented at what they do, and we all know this is not the case.
Natural ability, skill, talent and rate of improvement are just a few of the real world attributes that contribute to ones ability to perform well and make improvements.
I will leave you with this to ponder.....taxi drivers spend a lot of time behind the wheel and are some of the worst drivers on the road, why is this?
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Very true, I like to compare this to studying.
It doesn't matter own smart you are, if you don't put the hours in studying, positively you will fail.
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i think your the one who needs to go back to class. your contradicting yourself. also you could work on your spelling/gramma/choice of words.
and by the way i finished studing and have been in the workforce for years.
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Tue, 13 September 2005 08:35
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you dont see many top level 20 year old race drivers!it takes time to get muscle memory,to react the right way etc.you make qlot more mistakes the younger you are because you dont have the experiance to have experianced situations.for most people, besides myself,common sense comes with time.i dont see what the problem with being on P's?i never had a problem with it.younger people tend to get ambitions and capabilites mixed up.i have got out of my depth a few times when young and got away with it.but i have also been driving since i was very very young.killing yourself is bad,but it would be shocking to kill someone else because of some split secound madness!
mick
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Tue, 13 September 2005 12:22
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hmmss - under 20's top level racers ..
Craig lowndes , will davison , ryan briscoe , valantino rossi ..
Shall i continue ?
raw talent , massive amounts of skill
But alas - a good driver is made by practice , experience and plain common sense and awareness.
You go in hard think your going to be a king , youll get burned ..
not watch whats around you , your gunna get hit
Dont take time to learn the ins and outs of piloting a car/bike/whatever and learn from this experience - youll get hurt
Doesnt matter what age you are IMHO - shit drivers are shit drivers , and good , are just good
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Tue, 13 September 2005 12:35
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Hi,
Well said Classique.
Now all of youse, stop picking on us oldies.
seeyuzz
old man river
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Tue, 13 September 2005 13:51
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As soon as "you oldies" start treating us with some degree of respect in relation to cars/driving...
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Location:
Potts Point, Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Tue, 13 September 2005 13:57
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i'd have to agree that it has more to do with the person than experience.
Saw some old shagga (around 60 or so) in a Holden Statesman driving over the line that separates the lanes. Took up 1/2 of 2 different lanes, doing no more than 45 in a 70 zone 
people like that shouldnt drive 
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Tue, 13 September 2005 21:50
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you think its bad in the city! was driving out to the farm in the middle of no were,clipping along at 100 odd,i see an old ute come down its drive way.i think ok he will stop and wait,no pulled straight out doing 20km/h,i couldnt go around because there was a car coming the other way.so brake hard and slow up right behind an old bloke in a hat.then when it ok to overtake i pull out start going around him and he starts drifting{lol not sideways drifting}over towards me,as soon as the front of my patrol reaches his door,he shits and swerves back nearly loosing it. i might ad,my patrol is bright .ucking green from halfway up the door to the top of the roof. dont get me wrong there are millions of stuffed drivers of every age and sex.
mick
p.s Classique71 yes go on,thats 4 Young drives out of 200,000 or so!hahahah
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Casula
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Tue, 13 September 2005 22:28
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Ok, I've read most of the posts in this thread. There will always be good points For & Against in any discussion like this. So how about we put it on hold for 20 years then see how many comments change, as new young ones come along, the now young ones get older, and the older ones just get older.
PS. no offense to anyone intended.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Thu, 15 September 2005 06:05
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spectral, there is no argument that most young drivers are crap. My ex girlfriend is one of them. Her friends as well. They all sucked and I am surprised none of them killed themselves. The point is that just 'cuz some of them suck, doesn't mean that it should be assumed they all do.
When you actualy look at the stats though, young drivers aren't that over represented in road fatalities. I was suprised when I heard some polly going on about "Young drivers make up XX percent of our road users and XX percent of road fatalities, bla bla, this isn't acceptable". When I saw that I thought "wow... that's a lot lower than I expected."
I'm a good driver. Much better than most I see. I slow down when I see something that may cause an accident. If someone is driving eraticaly, I either slow down and let them get ahead, or get passed them and speed up to get away. One thing I am guilty of is a little bit of tailgating, but I'm trying to stop that. But that's a bad habbit that's formed over the years, not one I started with.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Thu, 15 September 2005 11:37
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* nods knowingly * 
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Location:
Hobart
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Thu, 15 September 2005 11:47
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I'm curious to know when you cease to be a young driver and become an 'old' driver..
When you reach 25? When you reach rating one? Or when you realise that you aren't and will never be the best driver on the roads and adjust your behaviour accordingly.
In response to the initial question i think experience is priceless! No matter how good a driver i thought i was when i was 19, and no matter how many times i was told to watch out for other dickheads on the road, nothing prepared me for the car overtaking a stream of traffic at 110 in my lane on a 2 lane h'way at night. Thankfully despite needing the gravel verge to avoid a head-on i drove on without any damage despite to my nerves. Anyone driving for a few years has similar tales to tell and its this sort of experience that helps! It sure as hell makes you a lot more wary of other drivers!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2005
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Thu, 15 September 2005 14:50
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well... some old guy told my dad when he was young and got his licence, and well my dad told me the same advice, and its stuck in my mind...
AS long as u are learning to drive you wont crash, its when u think u can drive , that when u will come unstuck...!!!
maybe not today , tomorrow,hey u were lucky... but it will happen!!
A lot of good point here on this topic!!
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Location:
Launceston
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Thu, 15 September 2005 22:56
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well 2nd day of my car rego i crashed it, im a p plater and i was on a gravel road and wasnt used to my car. and i was trying to be safe by slowing down. grr that sucks but now my car has teh mazzive camber
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Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Thu, 15 September 2005 23:32
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| EVL-184 wrote on Fri, 16 September 2005 00:50 |
AS long as u are learning to drive you wont crash, its when u think u can drive , that when u will come unstuck...!!!
maybe not today , tomorrow,hey u were lucky... but it will happen!!
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hahaha, an undercover cop told me the same thing when i cut him off, i was so close he thought i was gonna hit him.
i think i can drive.. but i know my limits very well, and rarely cross over the line.
i hate sayings like that, it sounds like u jinx-ing yourself. if you say shit like that u will stack, your preparing for it already.
[Updated on: Thu, 15 September 2005 23:36]
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Sat, 17 September 2005 09:57
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in a skills based test done independantly for max power mag in the uk they give teens/20 somethings 3 standard drinks which is the legal limit to both males and females and compared their skills levels to sober 60 + drivers both mael and female
the funny thing is that the sober old farts drove worse sober than the young inexperienced wankers with 1/2 a skin full
experience doesnt mean everything
reaction times do make a differene in drivign skills and as evidenced in the test it makes a freaking huuggeeeee difference
no matter how you look at it weve been brainwashed by governments andbodes to beleive shit
if they were serious they would return 100% and not on average only 21% of fuel excises back to improving road conditions and driver skills
there will also always be exceptions to the rules
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Sat, 17 September 2005 11:46
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Hi,
| 4DaDrift wrote on Sat, 17 September 2005 19:57 |
in a skills based test done independantly for max power mag in the uk they give teens/20 somethings 3 standard drinks which is the legal limit to both males and females and compared their skills levels to sober 60 + drivers both mael and female
the funny thing is that the sober old farts drove worse sober than the young inexperienced wankers with 1/2 a skin full
experience doesnt mean everything
reaction times do make a differene in drivign skills and as evidenced in the test it makes a freaking huuggeeeee difference
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Yes, I know of that test, and there have been many similar tests with the same result.
I'll admit that the older you get the slower your reaction times - which is basically what these tests show and prove.
However, the vast bulk of accidents with younger people is them speeding and going too fast - too fast for their young quick reaction time. Older people generally don't drive fast and wrap themselves around a pole or into another vehicle. Sure, we may hit some dickhead that jumps out in front of us 'cos we're a little slower - but we don't often fold our cars around trees at high speed.
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
Shailer Park Qld
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Sat, 17 September 2005 13:52
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no...u just put it into "drive" and let the car do the "accelerating"...maybe use the brake pedal if u see whatever it is in time...
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Location:
Sydney NSW
Registered:
August 2005
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Sat, 17 September 2005 17:28
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NRMA had information in their mag about just this,
i may be the only 20/y old in australia who read it
but it goes a long way to showing the viewpoints of
the older generation, i did a little spy work and here
are some of the "older" generation's viewpoints that i
think clash with my generation
by the way, if your wondering,
young = 16 -> 29
old = 30 -> dead
1) high powered cars cannot be used to their full potential
without breaking the law
2) young drivers are discourteous
3) young drivers do not follow the "unwritten" laws of the road
4) older drivers are "safer" than younger drivers
personally, i dont mind any restrictions you guys get because
it doesn't affect me at all. however it is important for all
you affected 'p' platers to learn that this is the way our
beautiful system of government works.
- find a flaw in the system, in this case teenagers dying and,
more importantly, the voters complaining about it
- enact a quick-fix solution to the problem and find a way to
develope revenue from said solution
- ignore any and all attempts by the public to disuade the
application of the afore-mentioned solution
the thing that annoys me about this whole thing is that it is
being done with the 'maude flanders' type - "Won't somebody
please think of the children!" attitude,
the people who wrap themselves around a pole doing 200kph in
daddys r34 are not goign to be saved, i think they should be
sacrificed for the greater good
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Location:
Shailer Park Qld
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Sat, 17 September 2005 17:52
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lol...i have a low powered car...and i can only use first gear most of the time to its full potential without breaking the speed limit...
but really...no car to its full potential would stay within the law...jsut "high powered" ones get there faster...
and us younger generation have the reflexes and reaction times to justify this faster response...older people dont...so of course they are gonna complain...
if there were no oldies on the roads, trips would be 10 mins shorter, long trips would be an hour shorter (i can verify this quite easily)
Loganholme to Lismore
Midnight onwards. sat night/sun morning driving with a few freinds...they in their cars...5 cars total...
hardly anyone else on the road...
never exceding the speed limit (not me at least)
total trip time - 1 hour, 15 mins...
Lismore to Loganholme
midday onwards. sunday. driving alone...along with the "general public" on the road...not too many cars, but 40% of them were 5kph under speed limit. conditions would safely allow 20kph over...but yeh...and at least another 40% going 10-15kph under speed. like WTF for?!?!
total trip time - 2 hours, 10 mins
sure theres more cars on the road...which is a contributing factor...but the main point is, older people dont concentrate on the road and their car as much...and lose foot pressure on the accel, and thus keep getting slower and slower...then they look down...and think shit...going too slow...speed up to speed limit...and slowly back down...enjoy the scenery....GET OFF THE FUCKING ROAD AND GO HAVE A PICNIC!!!
i hardly come across people that hold a consistent speed...let alone concentrate on driving...
sure i sit back and all, but im always looking at the road ahead, what traffic is doing, whos around me etc etc...
my rant...and also the reason i think night driving is safer...old people stay away from it cos they cant see...
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Location:
Sydney NSW
Registered:
August 2005
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Sun, 18 September 2005 15:27
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hahaha , you do make an interesting point there,
i would like to add that when i was working saturdays in a store on the princes highway, lots of accidents happened right outside the shop,
i just thought no one could drive out there
it wasnt until later that i found out the accidents only happened on weekends, due to people driving that normally dont, mixing with people driving who drive regularly
i think pensioners and other "oldies" should have to get a permit to drive on sundays
| Quote: |
no car to its full potential would stay within the law
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umm i was refering to the extra power that high powered cars have
my celica will exceed the speed limit, it gets there so slowly i dont bother
what i mean is, say your car has 100kw at the wheels, you upgrade the engine, computer, ecu, turbo, exhaust, internals, looking for another 100, there is no point - seeing as how you can do the speed limit just fine with what you had before
my mates got a suzuki hatch 800cc, i dont think it can exceed the speed limit under any circumstances, and its probably quite a dangerous thing to attempt
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Location:
Shailer Park Qld
Registered:
July 2005
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Location:
Sydney NSW
Registered:
August 2005
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Sun, 18 September 2005 17:20
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did you read the previous posts???????
that is not my position, i am stating a position held by many, mostly older people,
respect for the echo  , probly got the best fuel economy around
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Sun, 18 September 2005 17:25
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river
i agree with you there and to support the arguement we only ahve to remember jim richards peter brock allan moffat and john bowe who are all beyond their 30s and still raced compedativelly
the biggest factor is lack of experience regardless fo your age imho
its relates to us all as the road rules and the pace and eexpectations from othr drivers are cosntantly changing
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Sun, 18 September 2005 17:30
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| Paranoid Android wrote on Sun, 18 September 2005 03:28 |
1) high powered cars cannot be used to their full potential
without breaking the law
2) young drivers are discourteous
3) young drivers do not follow the "unwritten" laws of the road
4) older drivers are "safer" than younger drivers
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1. there are multiple example wher ei can think of high powered vehicles being used legally and yes that does include on the road
2. a proportion of tehm are and the elders are to partially blame for setting up a capitalist system were time equates to money so teh lifestyle lived is fast pasced
3. these arent taught or passed down and they should be imho
tests atm are desgined to pass not to teach skills and there lays a major bulk of the problem
4. it depends upon your defenition of safe
to me it is not safe to be driving substancially below the natural course of traffic as it only encourages driving that increases the risk to everyone on the immediate road surroundign that person
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Location:
Shailer Park Qld
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Sun, 18 September 2005 17:38
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yeah i did read ur "previous" post...
sure the car gets to the speed limit just fine on 100kw...
and with that there is not much reason to have 200kw...
but also, a lot (i dont know "official" numbers...maybe 90%) of people only see cars as a means of transport...not for enjoyment, and thus they dont give any thought to driving...
which is problem number 1...but yeah...
for a lot of the interested people...power is just wank factor...
much like penis size...esp old ppl who drive wat they think is a fast car...volvos, VK's, landcruisers...the all look down upon me
and then the echo has shut them down...
funny...sad....but true..
and yes...the echo is very fuel echonomical...ahem...
550kms from 35L odd (45L tank)...week in, week out...111000kms (2 years) and still perfect...actually...when the car was factory standard i was only getting 450kms from a tank...and using 40L...waiting till the light was flashing empty b4 filling up...
more power, more economy...i look down upon a whole lotta other cars
but no..i dont like to race people...sure i take off fast from lights etc...but as soon as someone thinks he wants to race me, i go light footed...and oh...look...u won the race...damn...i must suck...
if i want to have some real fun, i go out west, late at night...
no houses, no cars...just tarmac and trees...and hills...but i dont see much of that in the dark...
that may seem a bit off topic...but i see it as improving my reflexes and knowledge of the cars "characteristics"
i dont want to be jamming on the brakes, locking the wheels up, and slamming into something...i want to be able to slow down as quickly and controllably as possible, still being able to steer out of harms way, and hopefully be able to drive away from whatever it was...
the odd suicidal wallaby or rabbit keeps me on my toes too...bastards...only hit one so far...at about 20kph...after getting on the brakes...shoulda seen it slide down the road...like it was at wet-n-wild
and damn...thats enough from me...so many thoughts...so little time... 
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Sun, 18 September 2005 23:06
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You must be thrashing the poor echo my bro gets around 700kms a tank in the city and over 800km on the freeway
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Location:
Kellyville, Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Sun, 18 September 2005 23:19
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| TougeVitz wrote on Mon, 19 September 2005 03:38 |
i dont want to be jamming on the brakes, locking the wheels up, and slamming into something...i want to be able to slow down as quickly and controllably as possible, still being able to steer out of harms way, and hopefully be able to drive away from whatever it was...
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good point. emergency braking is a very important skill that every driver should know how to do, yet it is not a requirement to get a licence, nor is it taught by many driving instructors. The only time that MOST people get to practice this is in an emergency . i know it has been said but
DRIVER TRAINING!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 19 September 2005 00:02
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Indeed driver training is very important, i did a level one course at the start of the year, and when i get a new car with abs i'll be doing another one elsewhere and maybe the level 2 course as well.
Only reason i wanna go someplace else is that i can't do the level 2 course at eastern creek until i'm off my p's and its also good to get other ppl's opinions as well.
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Location:
Kellyville, Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 19 September 2005 00:06
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i did mine with ian luff at oran park. you can go there on your p's.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 19 September 2005 00:35
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| mynameisrodney wrote on Mon, 19 September 2005 10:06 |
i did mine with ian luff at oran park. you can go there on your p's.
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I know and thats where i'll be going now. Eastern creek is a great course and a lot cheaper (190 bucks for level one for p-platers) but until you are on a full license you can't do stage 2 its run by the ARDC.
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: time behind the wheel = experience = good driver???
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Mon, 19 September 2005 00:46
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limit braking!
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