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Location:
Geelong.Vic.Au
Registered:
August 2002
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r154 conversion questions
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Thu, 15 September 2005 00:39
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Hi all,
I just have a few questions reguarding the installtion of an r154 to an 86 mz21 soarer.
Firstly, Did early manual z20's and a70's use the w58 instead of an r154?
After 1988 Toyota moved the engine forward in the engine bay (used round engine mounts instead of square ones, and a diferent engine crossmember I think)
Presuming that early z20/a70's did use a w58, Does this mean that the gearbox half of the tailshafts would be a diferent length on an early (<'87) manual soarer to that of a later (88'>) one?
If all this info is correct, then the peices needed for a r154 manual conversion into an 86 soarer would be as follows,
r154 box (der!)
7m/r154 bellhousing
clutch, flywheel, slave cyl, lines, pedals, etc.
>'88 a70/z20 engine mounts and crossmember
>'88 a70/z20 gearbox crossmember
>'88 tailshaft front yoke
Does this all sound correct?
Cheers everyone,
Ashlin.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: r154 conversion questions
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Thu, 15 September 2005 01:27
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I'm not sure what the options were in the Soarer's, but if the 7MGTE ones came with an option of manual, it would have been R154.
All the other motors would have been W58 if manual. (7MGE, 1GGE, 1GGTE).
Are you sure the motor moved forward?
Yes, the mounts changed, it happened in the Supra and the Cressida too. But I was never aware of the motor moving forward.
If indeed the motor did move forward, the tailshaft would have lengthened by the same amount.
W58 tailshafts will not work for R154's.
A340E tailshafts will work for R154's, but you'll have to lengthen it ~80mm
Double check that moving forward bit.
Then report back, I'd like to know.
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Location:
Geelong.Vic.Au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: r154 conversion questions
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Thu, 15 September 2005 01:59
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Hi,
I'm purchasing an '86 MZ21 (off CrispyFries on these forums) It is 75% through the r154 installation. Once completed i'm taking ownership.
The installation would have been well and truely completed However a few snags were hit along the way,
The whole lot was installed apart from the gearbox crossmember. When a post '88 ma70 gearbox crossmember was sourced it didn't line up correctly with the gearbox and the body. So another gearbox crossmember was found and sent down, however it ewnded up being the same as the first  Finally another diferent gearbox crossmeber was sent down, this looked more correct but still didn't work (I was guessing this one was off a w58)
Finally it was figured out that the diferent engine mounts and crossmember on the later models move the motor slightly forward which would allow the gearbox crossmember to line up correctly. Using the gearbox crossmember of the same aged car. However I'm not positive this will solve the problem, i was hoping people on here could confirm it 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: r154 conversion questions
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Thu, 15 September 2005 02:15
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I can't see the motor moving forward.
That means things like heater hoses, radiator hoses, intercooler piping, aircon hoses, vacuum hoses, intake piping/airfilter, throttle cable, fuel lines, auto shifter linkage, all may no longer fit as well.
It doesn't seem a very likely thing for Toyota to do.
The is however, a very high chance that W58 and R154 crossmembers differ.
The rubber gearbox mount may also differ as well.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: r154 conversion questions
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Thu, 15 September 2005 02:18
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redrill the W58 mount to suit..
It cant be that far out
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Location:
Geelong.Vic.Au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: r154 conversion questions
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Thu, 15 September 2005 02:24
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I think i should get Justin (CripsyFries) to check this thread out. As the car is still his I don't have access to it or any of the other bits. I'm just regurgitating what info i've heard from him and others reguarding the problem. He might be able to add some insight.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: r154 conversion questions
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Sat, 17 September 2005 10:07
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Ok, after a few initial problems, the gearbox was finally ready to be bolted in at the crossmember... only the crossmember bolt holes didn't line up.
(dodgy paint art work to follow)
the kit came with the following crossmember
Not that actual one, but the same, with all the holes in 2 lines.
This fitted up to the car like so
Yellow = Gearbox mount
Blue = Car
Red = Crossmember
After reading this:
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MA70 vs JZA70 Conversion?
Between the MA70 and JZA70 the only difference I have come across is they use a different flywheel + bolts, different bellhousing of course and the crossmember is different, apart from that the rest of the conversion would be the same process. The 1jz bellhousing is shorter then the 7m. The 1jz cross member is straight whereas the 7m is angled forward for the bolt holes.
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on poombah's site http://www.supratt.tk/ I assumed I'd been sent a 1jz crossmember by mistake, so I asked John (soarer21) to send me down a replacement.
When the replacement arrived, it was the same  So I contacted John again. This time he asked what year car it was, and whether it had round or square mounts. I said square and was told that was the reason that the crossmembers weren't fitting. That the round mounts had the engine sit further forward than the previous square ones. I'd certainly like to confirm whether this is the case before pulling out the engine to replace the mounts and engine crossmember.
The R154 crossmember I have is identical to the one that was on the auto I pulled out, which seems odd as well, as it further confirms poombahs site. As for a W58 crossmember, that's even worse and looks like this:
(yes they only go on one way)
So if anyone can shed some light on this frustrating situation I'd be most grateful.
Justin
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Location:
Geelong.Vic.Au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: r154 conversion questions
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Sat, 17 September 2005 10:14
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Ahh fantastic, those pics make things a bit clearer 
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Location:
Casino
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: r154 conversion questions
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Sat, 17 September 2005 12:14
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Does moving the rubber mount on the gearbox (there are 3 positions to move it forward or back) give enough adjustment to fit the mount?
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Location:
logan river brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: r154 conversion questions
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Sat, 17 September 2005 14:14
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It looks like a very simple fabrication to make a suitable gearbox crossmember.
If you physically mark the holes on a piece of paper under the car [as a template] and provide that and the original mount to a general fabrication style engineering shop your problems should be over.
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Location:
Geelong.Vic.Au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: r154 conversion questions
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Sun, 18 September 2005 06:44
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hmm i think engineering would be a problem with that, though i doubt anyone would notice it down there
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: r154 conversion questions
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Sun, 18 September 2005 07:27
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On JZZ Soarers the auto crossmemeber is identical to the r154, they just use different mounts.
This is only to add creedence to the mounts that John sent. I suspect that Toyota being clever made one mount to fit all of the same generation.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: r154 conversion questions
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Sun, 18 September 2005 08:00
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| acmtt wrote on Sun, 18 September 2005 17:27 |
On JZZ Soarers the auto crossmemeber is identical to the r154, they just use different mounts.
This is only to add creedence to the mounts that John sent. I suspect that Toyota being clever made one mount to fit all of the same generation.
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From what I've read the crossmembers on 1jz engined car -should- be the same. But on a 7m they should be different. But I can't find anything to either confirm/deny this...
Anyone want to take a picture of their MA70 r154 gearbox crossmember?
Justin
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Location:
Geelong.Vic.Au
Registered:
August 2002
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Location:
Geelong.Vic.Au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: r154 conversion questions
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Mon, 19 September 2005 11:51
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anybody got a pic of that gearbox crossmember? that or perhaps someone with a later model mz20/ma70 could measure the distance between their cam wheel cover and the radiator? might help confirm or deny the eninge mounts changing.
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Location:
Geelong.Vic.Au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: r154 conversion questions
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Tue, 20 September 2005 01:45
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I just rang up Toyospares, they don't seem to think changing the motor crossmember/mounts will fix the problem :s (said the square ones are fine) The guy there thinks the problem would be because of the gearbox itself, which is likely off a chaser or something. He also said if they can look at the problem they could very likely fabricate a gearbox mount which imo looks like the easiest way to go. Shouldn't need engineering (though he said it will be engineerable) cos the boys in blue won't see it
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