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zork
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September 2005
1jz to ma70 - engineers? Tue, 20 September 2005 04:38 Go to next message
will you need an engineers certificate if you put a 1jzgte from a jza70 into an aussie delivered ma70?
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ke382TG
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May 2002
Re: 1jz to ma70 - engineers? Tue, 20 September 2005 04:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yes
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zork
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September 2005
Re: 1jz to ma70 - engineers? Tue, 20 September 2005 04:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
whats involved in an engineers certificate and how much does it cost.
Would i need a certificate if i was putting in a 7m-gte?
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Lambolica
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Re: 1jz to ma70 - engineers? Tue, 20 September 2005 04:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
No Engineering not required in NSW

As the engine cam in that car. Just blue slip.

Will need to check for your own state
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zork
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Re: 1jz to ma70 - engineers? Tue, 20 September 2005 04:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
im in vic. not sure what the case may be
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ke382TG
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Re: 1jz to ma70 - engineers? Tue, 20 September 2005 04:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Call VIC roads or what ever it's called, they should have someone that can answer your question.

What Lambolica said makes sense but I know here in my area they make you get an engineers cert.

Prices generally range from $600 - $1000 and upwards for a certificate depending on the size and complexity of the work (this is for ACT).

EDIT: basically here in Canberra the Motor Registry is not interested in what came in what etc. They don't know if the same model with a different engine had different brakes, driveline etc, so they take the easy option for them and tell you to bugger off and come back with an engineers certificate.

The engineer will check the integrity of the workmanship for hte conversion, check that emission requirements are met, the car is adequately braked etc etc.

[Updated on: Tue, 20 September 2005 05:02]

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Lambolica
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Re: 1jz to ma70 - engineers? Tue, 20 September 2005 04:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I guess you best bet would be to call someone who does RWC and find out if the swap requires it. Be sure to let them know that the engine is available in that model and that the engine is smaller.

If an engineer is required will cost about $450.
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Allan
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Re: 1jz to ma70 - engineers? Tue, 20 September 2005 08:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
in victoria an engine that was an option for that car in austraila (complied JZA70) is fine without engineers as long as you can prove that it was a factory option and you have the same brakes, emmisions etc etc fitted.

P.S that advice will cost you your old 7M Smile

[Updated on: Tue, 20 September 2005 08:25]

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zork
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September 2005
Re: 1jz to ma70 - engineers? Tue, 20 September 2005 21:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
P.S that advice will cost you your old 7M Smile[/quote]
haha. r u aware that its a 7mge?
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Grant
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Re: 1jz to ma70 - engineers? Fri, 23 September 2005 01:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Even in NSW a 1J into a MA70 would still require an engineers certificate.
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Lambolica
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Re: 1jz to ma70 - engineers? Fri, 23 September 2005 02:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Grant,

You sure about that??

We swapped My brothers engine for a 1J and was told it didn't require an engineers certificate, Just blue slip and change engine No at RTA. Which is what was done.

Unless of course the Guy who blue slipped it meant "Pffft Na Bro, youse Don't need an engineer for dat"
as opposed to "Mate, by RTA's rules one does not require engineering for said conversion"

Further clarification Grant?
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ke382TG
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May 2002
Re: 1jz to ma70 - engineers? Fri, 23 September 2005 02:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

You sure about that??

We swapped My brothers engine for a 1J and was told it didn't require an engineers certificate, Just blue slip and change engine No at RTA. Which is what was done.

Unless of course the Guy who blue slipped it meant "Pffft Na Bro, youse Don't need an engineer for dat"
as opposed to "Mate, by RTA's rules one does not require engineering for said conversion"



That was my exact predicament. I went into our local RTA tech standards customer service area. Asked if engine x will be fine to fit to car model y without engineers certification as it was an factory fitment in Japan. Point Dexter wanders off then comes back and says yes that is acceptable just return to have the engine number details changed on the rego. Stupid me being a trusting phucker and thinking that the RTA's word is gold head home and complete conversion.

Return to same building for inspection to have engine number and details changed on rego only to be told that I can go away and get an engineers certificate. After much discussion, I lose and rip a skid out of the inspection station. $700 later I have certificate and a the car passes over with ease.

Get any statements in writing, most of the RTA staff are useless public servants who don't give a toss Very Happy
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Grant
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Re: 1jz to ma70 - engineers? Fri, 23 September 2005 02:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Under the RTA guidelines for light vehicle mods you need an engineers certificate as it is not classed as a "owner certified modification". Even a 7MGTE (technically) needs a certificate as the power increase over standard is greater then 15%. I'm very suprised the blue slip guy did it. Most are very cautious these days as many of those guys have lost their licenses from doing questionable approvals. Still, if it's done now you saved yourself the cost of a certificate.

Probably the only time you may come unstuck is if the cops do a check and ask for the certificate. They won't care the engine number has been changed and would probably defect you anyway.

The experience of KE38 just goes to show you shouldn't take anything the RTA says is gospel. I once got into an heated discussion with one of the guys from RTA technical branch about retaining the convex mirrors on an mercedes import. He initally said 'no-way - must be a flat mirror' until I rang back and quoted the ADR clause number that allowed it. He didn't even know the ADR had been changed (several years ago I might add) to allow convex mirrors to be used!
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Lambolica
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Re: 1jz to ma70 - engineers? Fri, 23 September 2005 03:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yeah Ok there is a slight difference in our case. origonally the MA70 had a 7MGTE meaning by the ADR it falls under the "owner certified" catagory.
So a 7M-GE to 1JZ may need engineering depending on definition of the equivalent power of the 1jz to 7mge.

From RTA's "guide"


Do I need an engineering signatory for minor modifications?
Vehicle modifications fall into three distinct categories:
"Owner certified" minor modifications which can be accepted for registration purposes without
formal certification;
*Engineering signatory certified; modified production vehicles; and
*Engineering signatory certified; individually constructed vehicles.
Owner certified minor modifications are generally those modifications which were optional equipment
for the vehicle concerned. Owner certified modifications also include some non-standard modifications
of a minor nature which do not affect the level of safety, strength or reliability of vital systems such as
brakes and steering. These modifications have little or no impact upon the vehicle's level of compliance
with the Australian Design Rules.
Examples of minor (owner certified) modifications are:

*engine changes where the capacity increase is less than 15% above the maximum size engine
available for the vehicle (providing no major structural modifications are necessary and where
noise and/or exhaust emission ADRs apply, all standard equipment such as carburettors, exhaust
systems, exhaust gas recirculating valves, oxygen sensors and catalytic convertors relating to
noise and emission control are retained and operate correctly)

*the fitting of a proprietary sunroof (if the modifications are of a minor nature only)

*fitting a "package" available as optional equipment for the vehicle (eg front disc brakes, power
steering, alternative transmission and bucket or bench seats)

*additional lighting eg: fog & driving lights

*alternative wheels and tyres within the owner certified limits set by the Authority (see Vehicle
Standards Information Sheet No. 9 Guidelines for Alternative Wheels & Tyres)

*fitting of handling enhancing suspension components such as roll stabiliser bars and up-rated
shock absorbers

[Updated on: Fri, 23 September 2005 04:57]

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Grant
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Newcastle, NSW, Australia
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Re: 1jz to ma70 - engineers? Fri, 23 September 2005 03:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
That's really annoying how that error shit gets into the post when you do a copy and paste!

Anyway, back to the thread. I didn't realise you already had a 7MGTE which is why the guy blue-slipped it I guess. Still, the 1J doesn't meet the ADR requirements for emissions so technically it still needs an engineers certificate. A mate was in the same boat with his 4AGE corolla in fitting a 20 valve. One blue slip place was wise to the regs and said no while the other did it no problem. I personally think the whole ADR emissions reg is wank considering you are replacing an earlier model engine with a later one that would have better emission control anyway.

[Updated on: Fri, 23 September 2005 03:57]

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Lambolica
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Re: 1jz to ma70 - engineers? Fri, 23 September 2005 05:06 Go to previous message
Fixed annoying errors. Sorry was rushed when I posted that.

I feel sometimes the ADRs can be read several different ways.
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