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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2005
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MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 02:57
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Hello,
I am very new to Toyotas and would like some advice.
I am currently looking into 2 cars. Around the 1990 MR2 turbo and the GT4 (around 1990)The few cars that I am looking at range from AU$10,000 to AU$14,000.
Both of them feel great and look great. All within the budget but I can't decide which would be a better car.
I thought that all you car enthusiast would be the best source of intomation. THe questions I have are:
1) Which is the more expensive car to service and maintain?
2) Do any of the cars have cronic problems? Eg. transmission, clutch...etc
3) Fuel consumption?
4) Is there any difference in Japanese imported GT4s and MR2 GTs?
5) While selecting a used GT4 or MR2, is there anything I should look out for in particular?
Thanks, any help would be great.
Cheers,
Jon
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 03:11
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1) both will be more expensive then an average car as one is awd and it restricts soace the other is mid engine same restriction in space.
2) Stock clutch on a gt4 is known to slip at higher boost
3)Same engine in both cars mr2 is lighter so it should use slightly less, consumption will vary dramatically on how you drive it.
4) All mr2 turbos are imported unless they have been converted aus spec models.
The stock JDM gt4's get 225hp vs 200hp for the aussy model (talking) basic gt4's here not Group a's etc.
5) Search
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 03:11
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your looking at the SW20 MR2 and the st185 GT4, both are S series engines, basically the same, but the GT4 has AWD
AFAIK the GT4's are a more highly-strung car,
as such, they tend to have more problems,
fuel consumption can be good, but if you give it a bit too much goose youll pay for it..
the GT4 is a more practical car, it has more space, boot space (the truck space of the MR2 is hideous at best) and modifying an MR2, although cool, can be a headache, nowhere to stick a big 'cooler, everything crammed up between the frame etc.
It get the GT4, more expensive to run, but better for modding in the long run, heaps more room, although the MR2 has alot going for it, RWD being the main thing.
Eldar.O.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 03:38
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is it an australian delivered GT4, kms??
or if you can afford it, ask the bank for a bit more and buy Zasa's white Group A.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 03:56
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Thanks for all that info. I did not know that the engines of both cars were the same. I was more inclined towards the GT4 because of boot and cabin space. The cars are all supposed to be newly imported so I don't know if the kms are true but the price is within the budget. I have to sell my old car because I needed the money and I wanted a replacement fun car to drive. I am not really a car enthusiast although I really love to drive. I won't be modding the car. They are both great looking cars. Thought about the older rx7s (1985-1990) but heard they were really expensive to maintain.
| Quote: |
2) Stock clutch on a gt4 is known to slip at higher boost
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Corona RT142,this problem will not occur at low boost? How high a boost are we talking about?
Balck GT4, not familiar with the GT4 group A. How much is Zasa asking for it?
How much power does a Sw20 have?
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 03:58
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Not sure just was told that by Classique 71 read the GT4 owners dedicated thread you'll probably get enough info from there, i was looking at buying one a couple weeks back but didn't.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 04:03
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Corona RT142, what made you change your mind? My Mrs is not too happy about me getting another car. She would probably be the one to change my mind 
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 04:07
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the olny reason the standard clutches would mostly slip is when you really try to get it off the line quickly, the 4wd train will bog down meaning you will slip the clutch to get her moving, but the same will happen in the mr2, because of the amount of traction they have off the line your clutch will slip before the wheels spin.
NOTE: this is only if you are giving it a fair bit to get a really quick launch, normally you won't have a problem
Zasa's is very modded, very quick indeed, but we all know the hassles with hugely modified cars
They are both very good cars, but if your after boot space yeah an mr2 isn't your thing  either that or learn to travel light  I did
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 04:07
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Nothing to do with the GT4 (in terms of reliability or any problem) just that specific car thats all.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 04:16
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Well, the boot space is manly because of our dog. She will not be very happy in the trunk of the sw20. I prefer the lines on the sw20 though.
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Zasa's is very modded, very quick indeed, but we all know the hassles with hugely modified cars
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I guess Zaza's car is not for me.
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the olny reason the standard clutches would mostly slip is when you really try to get it off the line quickly, the 4wd train will bog down meaning you will slip the clutch to get her moving, but the same will happen in the mr2, because of the amount of traction they have off the line your clutch will slip before the wheels spin.
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I have never experienced the clutch slipping before, what does it feel like when driving? Clutch slipping only occurs off the line? If I were tp change the clutch, I could eliminate this problem of the clutch slipping? What will is cost to change the clutch?
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 04:19
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Um i don't think you'll be putting a dog in the back of the celica well not unless they are on the back seat, the boot isn't very deep in the Gt4 as you have the diff underneath it.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 04:25
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hmm, yes I am sure your dog woulnd't be too happy in the sw20 boot, plus he would die of heat stroke, the boot gets pretty warm with the exhaust under it. 
| silkishuge wrote on Wed, 21 September 2005 14:16 |
I have never experienced the clutch slipping before, what does it feel like when driving? Clutch slipping only occurs off the line? If I were tp change the clutch, I could eliminate this problem of the clutch slipping? What will is cost to change the clutch?
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I have a couple of times, mostly the engine will be reving up there, but you won't be moving as fast as you should, but the main tell tale is the horrible burning smell you get when it happens, a bit worse than hot brakes.
sorry should have clarified, if you drive it normal the clutch is fine, the car will launch quick with no problems, I was kinda reffering to people who dump the clutch from 3500-4000, then you will experience the slipping. you can still give them both nice quick punches off the line, just not dumping the clutch
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 04:29
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| Corona RT142 wrote on Wed, 21 September 2005 14:19 |
Um i don't think you'll be putting a dog in the back of the celica well not unless they are on the back seat, the boot isn't very deep in the Gt4 as you have the diff underneath it.
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umm the diff is under the rear seat  the fuel tank is under the boot and the spare tyre is in the boot so yeah you don't have as much floor space as the normal FWD celcias do
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 04:29
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Yup, dog in the back seat. The Sw20 does not have a back seat.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 04:31
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boot space is very sufficient in the GT4s, if you get desperate you can even fold the rear seats down for extra boot space.
list of things i've fitted in my boot with no problems are: friends bonnet, 4 17"rims with tyres on them. my front bumper. etc etc. you can pretty much fit anything you need in there.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 04:42
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Thats one of the other reasons I was more inclined to the GT4. The "lift back" and the fold down seats create quite alot of space. MOre space than my current ride. (Sedan)
At this point, far more inclined on the GT4. The best deal I got so far would probably have been from JSA (Japan Sports Auto) in Melbourne. They offered AU$14,000 with 3 years warranty on mehcanical parts but does not include wear and tear. Not sure what warranty it is but it does give ome peace of mind.
Anypone heard of JSA?
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 04:48
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| wiso wrote on Wed, 21 September 2005 14:29 |
| Corona RT142 wrote on Wed, 21 September 2005 14:19 |
Um i don't think you'll be putting a dog in the back of the celica well not unless they are on the back seat, the boot isn't very deep in the Gt4 as you have the diff underneath it.
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umm the diff is under the rear seat the fuel tank is under the boot and the spare tyre is in the boot so yeah you don't have as much floor space as the normal FWD celcias do
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Sorry but you get the idea, i am used to my sedan where the rear diff does actually cut into the boot space as well as the fuel tank and spare tyre. Boot space is really a debatable thing though as different ppl have different opinions on whats adequate and whats not Balck GT4 for example say the Gt4 is suffient, where i'd probably beg to differ. Majority of the time i don't carry a lot around, but when i do i carry a lot of sutff.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 05:24
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| silkishuge wrote on Wed, 21 September 2005 14:42 |
They offered AU$14,000 with 3 years warranty on mehcanical parts but does not include wear and tear. Not sure what warranty it is but it does give ome peace of mind.
Anypone heard of JSA?
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Be careful as anything can be discribed as wear and tear on a used car. eg clutch, rings, gaskets, turbo and oil seals etc.
That warrenty means nothing.
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 05:53
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im selling my car with a lifetime warrantee on all parts and labour, except for wear and tair items, such as anything mechanical, drivetrain or suspension, or anything that touches the chasis. labour is not included in the warrantee for the first 99 years, and im afraid, and the warrantee is also void if the users puts in more than 10 litres of petrol at one time, or if they rev the engine over 1500rpm.
but its a lifetime warrantee so ur sweet 
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Location:
Newcastle, NSW
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 06:27
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if u fit the car with an fcd, run 60psi resulting in snapped rods, cracked block, catastrophic turbo failure and holes in the bonnet and i/c from the plugs blowing out..that can hardly be considered wear and tear can it?...as wear and tear happens gradually, although you'll have a tough time proving u didnt modify the car and cause the little fireworks experiment
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Location:
Bulleen, Melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 08:41
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| silkishuge wrote on Wed, 21 September 2005 14:42 |
Thats one of the other reasons I was more inclined to the GT4. The "lift back" and the fold down seats create quite alot of space. MOre space than my current ride. (Sedan)
At this point, far more inclined on the GT4. The best deal I got so far would probably have been from JSA (Japan Sports Auto) in Melbourne. They offered AU$14,000 with 3 years warranty on mehcanical parts but does not include wear and tear. Not sure what warranty it is but it does give ome peace of mind.
Anypone heard of JSA?
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Is that the place on Bell St. Preston? If so, get the car assessed independently by someone like RACV, as I have heard mixed 'reviews' of that place.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 09:50
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Puffy, DV and Tooch, thanks for the advice. Thats all true, wear and tear is hard to prove. This is actually the first time I am buying a used car so I am a bit lost. 
tooch, can you please tell me how you can get a car checked by RACV?
Just came back from a place called Grand Tourismo along Spencer Street (Melbourne) They were selling a GT4 for $11,900. Thye did not seem like a helful bunch af salesman, but they had damn nice cars in their garage. Anyone heard of Grand Tourismo Autos?
| Quote: |
Is that the place on Bell St. Preston? If so, get the car assessed independently by someone like RACV, as I have heard mixed 'reviews' of that place.
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tooch, what have you heard of JSA (Bell Street)? They seemd quite professional. (First and only impression so far)
The other alternative is to wait for a Japanese import through Prestige Motor of J-Spec. They are much cheaper but no test drive.
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Location:
Bulleen, Melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 10:13
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| silkishuge wrote on Wed, 21 September 2005 19:50 |
Puffy, DV and Tooch, thanks for the advice. Thats all true, wear and tear is hard to prove. This is actually the first time I am buying a used car so I am a bit lost.
tooch, can you please tell me how you can get a car checked by RACV?
Just came back from a place called Grand Tourismo along Spencer Street (Melbourne) They were selling a GT4 for $11,900. Thye did not seem like a helful bunch af salesman, but they had damn nice cars in their garage. Anyone heard of Grand Tourismo Autos?
| Quote: |
Is that the place on Bell St. Preston? If so, get the car assessed independently by someone like RACV, as I have heard mixed 'reviews' of that place.
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tooch, what have you heard of JSA (Bell Street)? They seemd quite professional. (First and only impression so far)
The other alternative is to wait for a Japanese import through Prestige Motor of J-Spec. They are much cheaper but no test drive.
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Call up the RACV hotline, and tell them you want to book an inspection. Because it is a turbo, they will only do a comprehensive inspection, i.e. done at a workshop, they spend a few hours and go over everything. It costs around $250, so only do it if you are genuinely interested in the car, and have done some basic tests and inspection yourself. I had one done on my GT4, and they found around 3 pages of things! Some were urgent, others were merely observations. If the seller/dealer won't allow you to get an independent inspection done, walk away 
As for JSA, I do not have any specific things to tell you, but suffice to say that I've heard of the people there being slightly dodgy, and the quality of the cars being questionable. Their prices are rather high too, and the warranty (as mentioned above) is probably not worth the paper it's written on. However, as I have said, I am only passing on info 'from what i have heard".
I could be wrong, could be very wrong. Just thought I should pass on what I've heard tho
[Updated on: Wed, 21 September 2005 10:17]
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Location:
Bulleen, Melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2005
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Location:
Newcastle NSW
Registered:
June 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 10:32
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or u could buy an aus spec lower insurance costs cos its not an import, wide body, same power as jdm (the reason jap ones are rated with higher hp is becuase they used higher octane fuel when they were tested) and aus spec ones generally arent that much more expensive if ur looking for a decent one around your price range..
also ive had no problem with boot space sure its not as big as a commodore wagon but with the bootlid thing (which can be detahced and retached easily) there was enough room for my mate to lie in there and try and work out where the squeaks and rattles were coming from
anyway just my 2c ive got a gt4 and i love it
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Location:
Newcastle, NSW
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 10:35
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| GriZZly wrote on Wed, 21 September 2005 20:32 |
ive got a gt4 and i love it
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i dont think any1 that owns a gtfour will ever challenge that statement...it says it all
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Location:
Bulleen, Melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 10:37
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Hmm you'd want to find out what's wrong with the transmission, if its the synchro's, then thats common, if its actually broken, the car has probably been thrashed hard, as these hardly ever break! If it's bad enough that the seller says it needs a new one, I'd only pay around $10k for the car. You probably have to factor in a good $1000 at least, probably more, unless you plan to do the work yourself. Mechanics hate working on these cars and will charge accordingly.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 10:50
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Mechanics hate working on these cars and will charge accordingly.
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Any particular reason why mechanics hate working on GT4s? I definately can't do it myself..... car dummy, but still enjoy the drive.
I guess another important thing I should know is where you guys in Melbourne send the car for servicing?
The current owner of the GT4 import said that it was the synchro. How do I know if it is just the synchro or if its broken. My guess is that if it is the synchro, I could probably change the gear but not smoothly? If it is broken, can't drive it at all?
Forgot to ask how much you guys are paying for insurance
| Quote: |
also ive had no problem with boot space sure its not as big as a commodore wagon but with the bootlid thing (which can be detahced and retached easily) there was enough room for my mate to lie in there and try and work out where the squeaks and rattles were coming from
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Think boot space is great for the GT4. my friend could put his bike in.
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Location:
Bulleen, Melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 11:02
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Have you had a good look at the engine bay of these cars? That's why mechanics hate them . If you can do basic servicing and changing stuff over, it saves a heap. My car has only been to the mechanics when it has needed stuff done fast, or I am not confident to do it. I take it to a local guy, but im sure people on here could tell you someone who knows heaps about these cars.
Thought it would probably be the syncro's, in that case yeah you can change the gears, but it most likely crunches changing into 2nd or 3rd. Would be worth sourcing a Group A or ST205 box, as they have triple synchros (i.e. they dont wear out as easily).
Insurance is not too bad on these cars compared to other turbo's, I got my renewal yesterday, 21yo male, rating 4, full comp is $1350 with Just Cars.
And yeah, the boot space is massive when you fold the seats down
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Location:
Newcastle, NSW
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 11:03
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| silkishuge wrote on Wed, 21 September 2005 20:50 |
| Quote: |
Mechanics hate working on these cars and will charge accordingly.
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Any particular reason why mechanics hate working on GT4s? I definately can't do it myself..... car dummy, but still enjoy the drive.
Think boot space is great for the GT4. my friend could put his bike in.
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because they are so tight, when u look at one...pop the bonnet and take a look in there...i almost had to pull my turbo off to get my radiator out, its crazy tight in there, clutch and gearbox are both engine out jobs, to get to the timing belt its a matter of pulling all the cruise control and everything off...then supporting the engine from the top and taking an engine mount off, then working blind trying to get the timing belt covers off, they are rediculously difficult and time consuming to work on, alot of screwing around just to do a small job...so mechanics charge accordingly, then throw on some more for the extra displeasure the job causes them..lol, mr2s wont be much different, probably a bit harder to work on if anything.
cheers
edit----damn u tooch, finishing ur reply while i was still typing mine
[Updated on: Wed, 21 September 2005 11:05]
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Location:
Bulleen, Melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 11:08
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| -=DV=- wrote on Wed, 21 September 2005 21:03 |
| silkishuge wrote on Wed, 21 September 2005 20:50 |
| Quote: |
Mechanics hate working on these cars and will charge accordingly.
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Any particular reason why mechanics hate working on GT4s? I definately can't do it myself..... car dummy, but still enjoy the drive.
Think boot space is great for the GT4. my friend could put his bike in.
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because they are so tight, when u look at one...pop the bonnet and take a look in there...i almost had to pull my turbo off to get my radiator out, its crazy tight in there, clutch and gearbox are both engine out jobs, to get to the timing belt its a matter of pulling all the cruise control and everything off...then supporting the engine from the top and taking an engine mount off, then working blind trying to get the timing belt covers off, they are rediculously difficult and time consuming to work on, alot of screwing around just to do a small job...so mechanics charge accordingly, then throw on some more for the extra displeasure the job causes them..lol, mr2s wont be much different, probably a bit harder to work on if anything.
cheers
edit----damn u tooch, finishing ur reply while i was still typing mine
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That's what you get when I'm at home sick and bored!!
Haha speaking of the 'displeasure' that mechanics face with these cars, I still think of how funny it was watching 2 mechanics swearing and carrying on both trying to re-install the hydraulic belt tensioner on my car!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 11:11
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How much will a group A or ST205 gearbox cost fitted?
Did not think that the engine bay was very tight. It looks far worse on the new Celicas and my current car.
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Location:
Bulleen, Melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 11:24
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| silkishuge wrote on Wed, 21 September 2005 21:11 |
How much will a group A or ST205 gearbox cost fitted?
Did not think that the engine bay was very tight. It looks far worse on the new Celicas and my current car.
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Will probably cost an absolute assload, considering you first need to FIND one, then pay someone to drop the engine, and swap the box over, then put it all back in.
In all honesty dude, it's probably not the GT4 for you, you should be able to find one much better for the same price as that one.
Oh, and wait until you need to change a knock sensor, or do anything to the belts or pulleys, then you'll realise how tight it is
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 11:47
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yeah iwouldnt be purchasing that GT4.
when i bought mine there was 2 things i had to have if i was going to buy it.
1- it had to be aus. delivered. (for the widebody)
2- smooth gear changes.
at the time i checked out a grey import GT4 aswell. and even though it had less kms, the gear changes were not as smooth. and so i purchased the aussie delivered one with much higher kms.
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Location:
Bulleen, Melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 11:53
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Same here, my km's are high as, but the gearbox is silky smooth, and at $11500 for a Group A, I really couldn't resist
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Location:
Canberra ACT
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 12:06
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My best advice to you is to listen to the guys who own a GT4 and don't pay any attention to the dreamers and speculators.
Most people who buy GT4s are enthusiasts and buy them because they love the car. They are expensive to run, for the reasons already mentioned - but probably not much more than the average 14yo performance car.
Insurance isn't too bad, fuel economy is reasonable, but I wouldn't buy one unless you really like them (and are willing to spend the time/$$$ required).
Good luck with your decision!
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Location:
Newcastle, NSW
Registered:
May 2004
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 14:03
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Thanks for that bit of insight. It looks like there is no escaping learning more about how to DIY. Makes me think more about whether I can spend the time and money. It is a great looking car though and can forsee many hours of fun driving it around. Think it may be worth while to start learning about the car. My knowledge is extremely basic at best. Would probably not recogonise most of the parts of the car by looking into the bonnet.
| Quote: |
yeah iwouldnt be purchasing that GT4.
when i bought mine there was 2 things i had to have if i was going to buy it.
1- it had to be aus. delivered. (for the widebody)
2- smooth gear changes.
at the time i checked out a grey import GT4 aswell. and even though it had less kms, the gear changes were not as smooth. and so i purchased the aussie delivered one with much higher kms.
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Did not notice there was a difference in the import GT4 and the export in terms of looks.
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Location:
Newcastle, NSW
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 14:19
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| silkishuge wrote on Thu, 22 September 2005 00:03 |
Thanks for that bit of insight. It looks like there is no escaping learning more about how to DIY. Makes me think more about whether I can spend the time and money. It is a great looking car though and can forsee many hours of fun driving it around. Think it may be worth while to start learning about the car. My knowledge is extremely basic at best. Would probably not recogonise most of the parts of the car by looking into the bonnet.
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mate i was the same when i started my first engine swap..theres nothing like being thrown in the deep end with a set of tools and having 2 goals....
1.get engine out of car
2.do it right
damn was that a learning curve :S
man its pretty simple to learn...start with small services, changing ur oils and filter, ect u will slowly learn ur way around the engine bay...if something needs doing...there is literally years and years worth of documentation and "how to's" floating arouund the net for gtfours...or if u cant find what u need to know...just get on here and ask around for some help. most people here are genuinely helpfull and have great posotive attitudes, u will get nothing but happy to help, posotive replys and instruction from the gtfour owners thread, if your willing to learn, so many people are willing to help u and teach u if instruction on something souunds a little to advance or difficult for you, im sure there are lots of ppl around melb on this forum that would be more than happy to come around and give you a hand for a rum or 2...ur definately in the right place if ur keen, and if u can do ur own work..trust me u will never..ever regret buying a gtfour..they are a beautiful machine, i know mine gives me an ear to ear grin every time i drive it
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 22:13
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Thanks for the encouragement DV. I have been following this forum for a while and people generally seem very helpful. I wll continue to wait patiently for the right GT4.
Just wondering but in general, at how many kms does the GT4 require an engine rebuild?
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Location:
Newcastle, NSW
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Wed, 21 September 2005 23:37
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absolutely no idea, my old celica with the 3sge died at 330000k's but i sort of killed it to, i dont know wether the 3sgte will last longer than a 3sge or not...i hear the turbos generally last about 170000k and then theyre up for a rebuild...but thats a great oppertunity to have it high flowed and chase more power  ...my st165 (the generation before the ones you have been looking at) currently has 145000 ks on the engine and turbo and it is going STRONG..., it does have a couple of small oil leaks im slowly getting around to taking care of though...but the car wasnt looked after the best before i got it...as ive said in previous therads 99% of the work ive had to do is fixing up what the past owner neglected for too long.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Thu, 22 September 2005 00:25
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The 3sge is the engine for the older model Celica (st165) and the 3sgte is the engine for the 1 generation newer Celicas (st185) right?
I guess 170,000kms for a turbo rebuild is quite normal. Heard the same thing about RX7s. Except the Engine rebuilds are also at about 170,000kms. Durabilities of rotaries.....
Would most people do rebuilds at workshops? How much did it cost you for your rebuild?
330,000km on your old 3sge befored it died is pretty good for a performance car. What is the factory boost for a factory Gt4 (st185) and what boost would you recommmend to enjoy both long term reliability and power.
According to the Redbook, the weight of the MR2s are about 200kg lighter than the Gt4s. Having the same engine, the MRs will be significantly faster off the lights. Have you ever tried taking your time for 0-100km/h?
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Thu, 22 September 2005 02:49
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most 3sgte's seem to show their age at around 200 thousand KMs ..
I know of 5 or so that have done headgaskets at this age of miles , though all were running non standard boost
mine came out at 210thousand , the bottom end was in excellent order , the head gasket went due to a small case of electrolysis in the head , opening up a chamber too much and making the gasket weep ..
This wasnt a toyota fault - it was a previous owner not using the right coolants fault ..
My rebuild was on the greater side of extreme so i wont give you a figure on that - but a decent refresh isnt all that expensive -its the labour of getting the motor in and out that is ...
if you get your motor rebuolt , do it once , do it right , get a professional to do it - that can have a covering warranty for workmanship ..
This has recently saved me twice - the most recent being my spare car blowing its HG after 3000 KM ( fresh rebuild - everything was done )
basica maintainance is fairly simple on a gt4 - its a little more constrictive to get to some items , ie the oil filter , but not impossible ..
Any major servicing should be left to people who know what they are doing IMHO
overall - i love my Gt4 bar its issues - most of which relate back to its previous owner who flogged it just about dead , and i got burned with a sick car in need of love ..
Everything ive done to it is holding up perfectly so far - because it was done right in the first place , not fudged or arsed about to save a few dollars
On Gt4's - get an australian widebody if you can - they seem to be sturdier than the japanese ones - and come factory fitted with the group A spec rear torsen , and Steel gutted turbos ..
Jap ones are questionable in this respect
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Thu, 22 September 2005 04:26
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Classique71, thanks for that. That bit for group A spec rear torsen , and Steel gutted turbos is another thing I did not know. I will keep eyes peeled for a Aust delivered GT4, but again, depends on the price.
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Location:
Hobart, Tasmania
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Thu, 22 September 2005 09:46
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| silkishuge wrote on Thu, 22 September 2005 10:25 |
The 3sge is the engine for the older model Celica (st165) and the 3sgte is the engine for the 1 generation newer Celicas (st185) right?
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Hey mate, there is some superb advice in this thread.
The 3sge is the NA (non-turbo) engine from the 4th generation Celica (ST162) and the Series I edition of the 5th generation Celica (ST184), with neither being the TURBO GT4. The 3sgte is the only engine that ever powered the GT-Four from the factory for all models of ST165, ST185, ST205.
I drive a Series II 5th generation Celica (FWD, not 4WD) with the NA 5sfe engine (less sporty and more economical than the 3sge engine). It goes great and is still a really satisfying little car to drive. Good luck with the search and choose carefully, especially when considering a vehicle with transmission issues!
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Location:
Newcastle, NSW
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Thu, 22 September 2005 10:47
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| silkishuge wrote on Thu, 22 September 2005 10:25 |
The 3sge is the engine for the older model Celica (st165) and the 3sgte is the engine for the 1 generation newer Celicas (st185) right?
I guess 170,000kms for a turbo rebuild is quite normal. Heard the same thing about RX7s. Except the Engine rebuilds are also at about 170,000kms. Durabilities of rotaries.....
Would most people do rebuilds at workshops? How much did it cost you for your rebuild?
330,000km on your old 3sge befored it died is pretty good for a performance car. What is the factory boost for a factory Gt4 (st185) and what boost would you recommmend to enjoy both long term reliability and power.
According to the Redbook, the weight of the MR2s are about 200kg lighter than the Gt4s. Having the same engine, the MRs will be significantly faster off the lights. Have you ever tried taking your time for 0-100km/h?
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the 3sge was in the n/a fwd celica i owned before i baught my gtfour. ill add that the only reason it died is because i ran it without oil for a week thrashing the fuck out of it....long story...first car...young and stupid...ect ect.
a rebuild i would do myself with help from a mate with a bit of experience...after being quoted 2 grand to have my big end bearings replaced in my old n/a celica theres NO way in the world that i would pay a mechanic for a full rebuild and then worry that they cut corners or forgot stuff or just rushed the job...id rather do it myself, save a few grand...and id have the peace of mind knowing that it was done properly...i dont have much faith in most mechanics at all.
as for boost and reliability, the gtfours run 5psi in 1st and 2nd and 7 psi in 3rd and above standard, my st165 is currently running 12 psi and has been for 20,000 odd k's now and its running better than when i baught it, showing no signs of trouble. toyotas are built tough as nails...service and maintian them properly and they will never do you wrong
as for the 0-100 here is a vid of 10-150 in my gtfour @ about 11 psi on a hot day...
http://www.thex12.com/ctech/uploads/-=dv=-/acceler ation2.WMV
not performing its best but it gives u an idea anyway, im not sure how this compares to other gtfours. but im under the impression the 165 is a tad quicker than the standard 185.
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Location:
Newcastle NSW
Registered:
June 2005
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Thu, 22 September 2005 22:45
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| Quote: |
also regarding the 3sge and 3sgte as someone said earlier the 3sgte is the turbocharged version of the 3sge and has stronger internals and various other better/faster bits. However as with any car that uses the same engine and spans a few decades every time the model changes the engine changes slightly as well so if u buy as you plan to an st185 your getting a stronger engine than an st165. same with 205 vs 185. Talking stock versions of course and power went up with each model as well
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Unfortunately the st205 version of the GT4 is way out of budget. Usually asking about $25,000+. Can't check out the video yet DV, cuz my work place has an internet quota. Have to get home first.
This may be a silly question to most people here but how do you know what boost the turbo is running with? How do you cahnge the boost of the car?
| Quote: |
Good luck with the search and choose carefully, especially when considering a vehicle with transmission issues!
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Thanks Rainey, I will be more careful with cars with transmission problems.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Fri, 23 September 2005 00:51
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| silkishuge wrote on Fri, 23 September 2005 08:45 |
This may be a silly question to most people here but how do you know what boost the turbo is running with? How do you cahnge the boost of the car?
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Hey dude, glad to see you've found your way onto the forums.
Boost is found by attaching a boost gauge and measuring the air pressure in the inlet manifold. It's very easy to do.
Adjusting boost is a matter of adding in a bleed off valve (or a more fancy (electronic) boost controller) that removes some of the air pressure that the wastegate sees, thus fooling into opening later and giving you more boost.
Err... Hope that made sense...
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Fri, 23 September 2005 01:46
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| silkishuge wrote on Wed, 21 September 2005 14:29 |
Yup, dog in the back seat. The Sw20 does not have a back seat.
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Dog in back seat of st185 = Licked eyeball while attempting lane change @ 100kph = bad!
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Fri, 23 September 2005 02:51
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heh - know that feeling - My dogs a saint bernard , the lick could have drowned me
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Fri, 23 September 2005 04:00
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| Quote: |
Hey dude, glad to see you've found your way onto the forums.
Boost is found by attaching a boost gauge and measuring the air pressure in the inlet manifold. It's very easy to do.
Adjusting boost is a matter of adding in a bleed off valve (or a more fancy (electronic) boost controller) that removes some of the air pressure that the wastegate sees, thus fooling into opening later and giving you more boost.
Err... Hope that made sense...
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Thanks Nark. Might be trading the RB in for a Toyota. Not sure yet. That was a good explanation, thanks.
Just test drove t3 GT4 this morning. The last 2 had rust on the engine covers and rattled so I decided againts them. Clutch was slipping too. The first one was not bad, but the clutch was kinda heavy. Don't think the Mrs could drive it. What is the advantage of a heavy clutch? Prevent slipping?
Nark, so far all the GT4s I tested did not show much faster acceleration than the RB. Would you expect that. They have less power but are far lighter.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Fri, 23 September 2005 04:39
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The only GT-Four that will out-accelerate the 3.0R-B is the ST205 (not sure how fast the Group A ST185 is, it might be able to beat the R-B too).
Once you reach a corner though, the R-B will leave them all.
GT-Fours aren't light BTW. Any of you GT-Four owners know the exact figures?
Heavy clutch usually means less slippage.
Take your time in finding a car. With a car that's this hard to work on, you want to find one that's in as good a condition as you can find. That's my advice.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Fri, 23 September 2005 04:45
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Once you reach a corner though, the R-B will leave them all.
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Agreed.
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GT-Fours aren't light BTW. Any of you GT-Four owners know the exact figures?
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I I remember it correctly, it weighs about 1374kg (according to red book)... I thnk
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Fri, 23 September 2005 04:48
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Take your time in finding a car. With a car that's this hard to work on, you want to find one that's in as good a condition as you can find. That's my advice.
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Thanks for the advice. I intend in taking my time to find the right car for me be it a GT4, MR2 or even maybe a Nissan.(Even though they kinda all look the same and everyone seems to own a Sykline) And yes, I have a knack for liking difficult cars to work on.
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Fri, 23 September 2005 08:52
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And a well set up Gt4 would leave a Rb for dead .. from the factory it might be a bit different , but add some better suspension and make it breathe, then the coin flips..
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Fri, 23 September 2005 09:09
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To keep this thread on topic, let's just say I disagree.
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On Probation
Location:
Hobart
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Fri, 23 September 2005 09:42
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to solve all the problems, just buy a JZA70
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: MR2 GT Vs GT4 (1990)
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Fri, 23 September 2005 12:30
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Classique71, the RB is a newer generation car and hence also newer and in better running condition. Think the comparison I made is not really fair. Anyway, I have no experience or knowledge to what can be done with a GT4 so I can't say much.
TRD_Supra, the JZA70 is a Supra stock engine? How is the one generation earlier Supra different to the GT4. In terms of power and handling. To purchase one, they have to be imports?
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