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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 03:56
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I have just checked my datalog from my last run
at the drag strip and at 3500rpm there is absolutely no boost being
produced.
At 4200rpm there is around 1.5psi. Full boost isn't achieved until
around 5800rpm. That is only in first gear though. From a roll in
2nd it will making a little positive boost from around 3000rpm full boost around 4100rpm.
I think this is because of the diff ratio which is actually 4.875:1
not 4.6 as I think I may have written. I will be changing to 4.625:1
though ASAP. It seems as though there isn't enough load on the engine
in 1st to make the turbo spool as it does in 2nd or 3rd.
On the gear changes, the revs drop to 5200rpm. So from my
understanding as long as the stall is lower than that then it
shouldn't boil the trans fluid.
Have been advised that there is little difference in efficiency between a 3500rpm and a
4200rpm stall? That is at part throttle driving.
I have had conflicting information given to me.
I rang accelerator high stall and he recommend me an 8” non lockup converter that is 4500rpm and should stall to 3800rpm on the foot brake.
Then I rang Phil and TCE torque converters and he basically said that my turbo is too big and the diff is too short and 1st gear is too short. Turbo is HKS ta45s rated at 650hp .9turbine, .72 compressor, 65mm compressor wheel. Diff is currently 4.875:1 Mitsubishi diff. I can change to 4.625:1 but that is as tall as you can get. 1st gear in the auto is 2.831:1 whereas regular 3 speed autos are 2.3:1.
So I had the idea of taking off in second as it is 1.5:1 and with the shorter diff would make it very close to a powerglide with 4.11’s but Mike from MV said that this will fry the box very quickly. I knew that the weak point is the 1-2 change but didn’t think it would be too bad starting off in second. He also said that a 4500rpm stall would be way too big and most guys use around 2800rpm. (Which I don’t think will be enough) He also said that it is most likely a gearing issue.
I am also going from 25.5” tall tyres to 27.6” tall tyres to assist in taller gearing and hopefully more load on the engine. (Plus not having to change to OD at the end of the quarter)
So does anyone have any suggestions? I am a bit stumped as to what I should do from here?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 04:13
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Well that ratio change isnt gonna make much of a difference, they are so close together. Are you sure there is no other mitsu's that share the pajero diff with different gearing?
Other than that is your car still tuned to that pathetic rwhp figure? If it is only making a bit over 200rwkw there is definitely something not right, you should be looking at 300+rwkw. I know you don't believe in dyno results much but there is something not right there!
On the torque converter issue you wont boil the oil if you are just using the car for drag racing, in that case id go as big a stall as you can like what you suggested. If it is more of a streeter than yes the big stall can cause oil issues, have you got a good tran oil cooler?
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 04:26
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Well.. what other numbers have you logged? ET, MPH, 60ft, etc. could all be very suggestive as to how the whole thing's going, but with 200rwkw and such late boost, I'd be guessing not very well.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 04:47
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I have joined the pajero club and asked them. They haven’t really given a straight answer but searched over there and could only find the 2 I have and some 5.2 or something. I took my diff to a local diff place and they said they couldn’t do anything with it. I rang the most noted diff place in Brisbane and he told me to go to the wreckers and look for one after he had said that I can’t get taller than 4.625.
Yes, car is still down on power. The trap speed of 108mph verifies that the car is making no where near as much power as it should. That equates to around 210rwkw which is pretty piss poor considering. But stock ecu is still doing timing so that could have something to do with it. That is at 15psi by the way. I have ordered an MV shift box so wolf will be doing timing ASAP.
Car is still street registered but not driven that much at all. It is driven to the drags though. I have 2 fairly decent size front mounted trans coolers and the trans temp guage has only got out of the cold section (in farenheit) once and that was on a pretty hot day after being on the highway for about an hour.
Last options I can think of are swap a whole other diff in Hilux, 9” etc. or change to a manual gearbox. I dont know if changing to manual would help that much though.
Best 60 foot was 2.54 as there is literally no boost until close to quarter track. Best ET was 13.76, best MPH was 108.5. 2800lbs with me in the car so it isn’t making much power. People in jzz30’s are trapping that high with stock turbos.
Can’t do a burnout as it starts to spin at 1800rpm and gets to 2100rpm and just seems to bog down as it is no way near making any boost.
Launch rpm is 1800 
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 05:07
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'gas'?
if you go to that big a stall its probably just going to try and fry off the tires when you do... sounds to me like you might have other issues with the engine that should probably be fixed first..
wastegate is definately staying shut until you want it to open?
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 05:31
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That is another of the final options. Would prefer not to use it just yet.
I suppose I could choose a slightly lower stall and use some N2O.
Yeah, I have a problem with low power output and gearing. I know I have to get both sorted. But I don’t want to be doing things twice (which it seems like I am already doing). BTW engine is in good condition, good compression, had clean ports etc., regularly changed oil. Just not making the power.
So does anyone know of any good diff conversions for an xt130 Corona? (That is if I really can’t get taller diff gears.)I have done a search and got nothing.
I have a screamer pipe so yes I can tell when it is opening in 1st gear.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 06:34
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 i liked my screamer
tis a big turbo... should well and truely be stonking higher in the revs.. the diff is pretty high... im probably looking like running the stock 3.9 in my hilux.. IJZ747 runs a 3.9 too i believe?
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 07:13
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Chris i thought you had a wolf 3d v4?
It baffles me why you would be using the standard computer for anything when you are building a 10 sec drag car. I would 100% say that your computer is massively retarding timing, this is why you get the boost alot better in the taller gears.
Don't even think about stall, diff gears etc until you get that engine sorted, it will be a total waste of time because you are setting the car up for something it shouldnt be at the moment, 210rwkw and your trap speed are terrible. Id say with that turbo you should be looking at more like 20+psi boost aswell.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 07:31
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i'd say the stock computer is doing all sorts of funny things in an effort to stop so much air getting into the engine..
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 07:32
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He needs the ecu to control the auto.
As to why he hasn't removed the engine functions from the ecu and just left the autobox function nobody knows.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 07:40
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| CrUZsida wrote on Thu, 29 September 2005 17:32 |
He needs the ecu to control the auto.
As to why he hasn't removed the engine functions from the ecu and just left the autobox function nobody knows.
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I cannot for the life of me wire engines.
I got a professional to do it and basically I think he spun me some shit about the wolf and the stock ecu needing the crank angle sensor so he left the crank angle sensor going to stock ecu to control auto. I think he found it too hard to wire through the igniter.
I have ordered the MV box now so I will get that in ASAP and then get the wolf doing timing.
So I will see what happens then engine wise and then make some decisions.
Thanks guys
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 07:50
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| Chris Davey wrote on Thu, 29 September 2005 15:40 |
I cannot for the life of me wire engines.
I got a professional to do it and basically I think he spun me some shit about the wolf and the stock ecu needing the crank angle sensor so he left the crank angle sensor going to stock ecu to control auto.
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I realise this and it pains me to see people get stooged when it comes to wiring.
The reason why the dude said that about the crank trigger, is that wolfs are notorious for getting bad crank signals on Toyotas (don't know about other motors).
However this can easily be sorted out by someone who know what they are doing.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 10:19
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fuk the electronics from the auto
for a drag car u should go full manual shift
yr auto if std wont handle it for long
so get a good one biult
then get the wolf wired properly
once u go above 12 or 14 psi u should really be thinkin about full aftermarket ecu
take it to a professional who knows what to do
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 11:01
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| sideshow wrote on Thu, 29 September 2005 20:19 |
fuk the electronics from the auto
for a drag car u should go full manual shift
yr auto if std wont handle it for long
so get a good one biult
then get the wolf wired properly
once u go above 12 or 14 psi u should really be thinkin about full aftermarket ecu
take it to a professional who knows what to do
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It will be manaul shift very soon
I have a spare auto that is shift kitted and when/if this one goes I will get the spare built.
Will be getting wolf wired properly as soon as MV auto box is installed
I have full aftermarket ecu, just slack installed
Will be doing that for sure. Going to Redcliffe Dyno and Performance next time. The funny thing is that the guy who installed it is the wolf 3d distributor. 
Thanks guys
I will let you know how I go
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 11:06
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well theres alot of people out there selling alot of stuff they know fuk all about
being a distributor just means u might get it bit cheaper
i always thought wolf was part of ems
anyway i try to stay away from both those brands
i only wire them up if customers already have the ecu
i dont go out of my way to buy them
think ill stick to doin more std ecus less headaches in the end
the price i charge to wire an aftermaket ecu is too much for alot of people
so thats one reason y i dont do alot of them
but in the end the people who go for the 1800 to 2000 supplied
wired and tuned i gues get what they pay for
a shit job hehehe
goto the top tuners in sydney and for an autronic drive in and out is around 4000 to 4500 so i guess with that price u would expect a very good job
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 11:20
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| sideshow wrote on Thu, 29 September 2005 21:06 |
well theres alot of people out there selling alot of stuff they know fuk all about
being a distributor just means u might get it bit cheaper
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I would have thought that if you were a distributor of a product you would as least become familiar with it. The guy is a very smart mechanic but I think just cuts corners to make the quotes. And in the end gave up because it was too hard.
And the quote wasn't very cheap either
Live and learn hey.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 12:31
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too many guys these days rush the finished product because they have spent too long on it
i often loose time and money because i do jobs no one wants to do and u start the job and find out there needs more work than u thought or u have to do more research or testing
i usually dont charge much extra but still do the job properly
especially since not many do this type of work so its more rewarding than rippin every bastard off and doin shit work like
i always come across
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Location:
logan river brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 16:53
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Hi Chris-following your progress with interest.Hope you have some joy soon.
Hi Sideshow.You do an excellent job mate,us customers do appreciate the time you put in.Always happy to plug your service mate [can I have a discount please?]
Being a low income punter I am trying an auto ecu on a manual 1J with the piggyback that does fuel and ignition.[named ?]
Heres hoping..... 
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2002
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 Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 21:16
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Diff change big boy.
You need 3.9 or higher-end of story.
Measure your diff housing width from the stud face on each axle and send it to me. I'll work out what you can use for the best $$ value.
Also, when the wolf has spark control I'll send you up an excel table with a timing map in it.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 21:30
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Thanks for kind words Pete.
Sean: Ok, I will measure it tomorrow.
Also, I was going to email you my wolf file today. Finally got it off my laptop.
Thanks
Chris
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 21:36
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I hope to eventually go to a aftermarket ecu, but i still want the auto to be... well auto
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 23:27
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Yeah being a distributor means nothing. I wired my Haltech myself and took it to the distributor to tune and he did a fuck arse job awell as another member on this forum.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 29 September 2005 23:33
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have a look into L300 diffs, from memory, they come in a much wider variety of ratios
hmmm, i have a spare RT118 diff here. 3.89 ratio, it wont last 200m down the road, but u can have it if u want 
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Fri, 30 September 2005 03:03
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Thanks for the offer Phil
Will check out L300's but I thought they were the same.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Tue, 04 October 2005 23:05
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Ok, I have found out the following about my diff.
rear axle = 28 spline, 30.5mm diameter, diff = 9" diameter
I have also found out that Mitsu pickups in USA came out with 4.22, 3.9 and 3.54.
So would I be correct in saying that if I check that they use the same axles in US, same diff diameter and the same spacing for bolts in the housing that it will bolt up?
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Wed, 05 October 2005 04:13
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anyone?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Wed, 05 October 2005 05:17
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You could be ok but there could be variations in diff centre that would mean it may foul the housing. For example I believe G series centres lower than 4.875:1 will foul if you try to put them in 4.875:1 plus housings. This can be fixed with a little metal removal though.
What model pickup are you talking about? What sort of diff does the 3 litre V6 triton in australia have?? Or you could even try a diff from those Delica things??
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Wed, 05 October 2005 06:33
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Tritons, Pajeros and Delicas of the same era use the same diff and same 4.625 and 4.875 ratios. I have no idea what sort of pickup they are as I can’t even find what sort of “pickups” they sell in US. I am trying to find that out now.
So if I make sure that axles are the same and bolt patterns are the same then I could modify the housing a little if a taller ratio fouls on it?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Wed, 05 October 2005 06:52
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I think you are just going to have to bite the bullet and fing out. What about the mitsu challenger?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Wed, 05 October 2005 07:00
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Chris disregard my last post.
I believe you have the first generation V6 pajero diff.
I also hear the v6 SWB had 4.3:1 ratio?????
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Wed, 05 October 2005 08:10
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Hmm, I have just asked about that on the Mitsu forums.
I have joined an american mitsu forum as well to see what they have to offer.
The whole 4wd thing shits me though. Everyone wants to put these fuggin ridiculous 5.2:1's and shit in their Of all this time searching I haven't found one person trying to do anything similar to what I want.
It just seems strange that you can get all sorts of different ratios for a Hilux so why wouldn't mitsu do the same?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Wed, 05 October 2005 10:54
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cause its mitsu, thats why
look at the the SA-SE L300's, they are the old school ones, my mate works for mitsu, i'll get him to find out what ratios are available
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Wed, 05 October 2005 23:01
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what about a diesel express or something? maybe an L200 ? (not knowing what diff you actually have)
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Thu, 06 October 2005 03:27
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SL666: from what I have found, the L200 diff’s are the same as Pajero front diffs. I have a Pajero rear diff.
Sean: thanks for that mate. I will give them a ring. I have been so busy with uni that I haven’t had a chance to check the diff out fully but will doing so on the weekend. And thanks for the offer of picking it up. That would be greatly appreciated.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Fri, 07 October 2005 04:31
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Ok I have done some measurement of the diff, axles and brakes (not all that important except to try and work out what sort of diff it actually is)
Total radius of the mounting plate is 77cm.
It is a 10 bolt diff and each bolt is approx 8 cm apart.
The crown gear is 8" in diameter.
There are some numbers on the crown gear which are 339(ho in japanese)51120
The axle is 30.5mm at the spline and 33mm further down
It is a 28 spline axle.
Brakes are solid disks 330mm X10mm with big single piston calipers.
I rang that Mitsu wreckers above and he said that I am stuck with that ratio and the 4.22's that the L200 utes come out with is a smaller diff and doesn't bolt in.
But I am not convinced as some US guys said that my diff is the same as a "sport montero" and people swap their 3.9's out for the 4.625's so I will endeavour with that.
This is starting to get pretty annoying though.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Fri, 07 October 2005 05:40
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The best drivetrain in the world wont help your ignition timing and an oversized turbine.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Fri, 07 October 2005 06:01
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maybe not size. but did you rebuild the turbo after you bought it secondhand?
Its a long shot but if the bearings are bad or shaft is ever so slightly bent, that could explain bad spool up, and even to a small degree extra intake heat & timing retard. That is a big IC you have tho, any ideas what your intake charge temp is? You gotta hit a couple of clicks before it cools, which again is an off the mark thing...
How is your plumbing too? Lots of 90deg bends, diameter changes, etc is another good way to bugger up your take off & restrict things as a whole.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Fri, 07 October 2005 11:23
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Turbo hasn't been rebuilt but there is no smoke, no shaft play and wheels spin freely.
Intake temp was 35deg at the drags but gets up to 50odd on the dyno but I am unsure whether the air temp sensor is in the manifold or on the outside.
There are 2 90deg silicone bends which have to be used. No other way to fit piping otherwise. All 3" from the turbo outlet to the throttle body.
Anyone know if you could get a minispool done on a Pajero diff?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Fri, 07 October 2005 13:31
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I'd suggest pulling the centre and taking it to a 'sympathetic' diff bloke i had an LSD fitted to my gemini diff, but the bloke had to make a ford one fit..
they might make a LOKKA for it..
they say here that they make one that fits the front diff on a paj.. http://www.4wdsystems.com.au/html/lokka.htm
im going to be running one of these in my hilux, they even said they would warrant it with the 1J and everything
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Sat, 15 October 2005 23:49
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Went to the wreckers yesterday and could't find any diff that will fit.
I have done some calcs and worked out that using a 4.625:1 diff with 225/70 15's is nearly the same as using a 4.22 (Triton) and my current 225/60 15's. This will be enough so that I don't have to change into overdrive before the finish line.
Question is: They have the same total effect on gearing once the car is moving but when I am stalling it up on the line, will the 4.22 put the engine under more load than the 4.625?
Thanks
Chris
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 1jz boost, stall, gearing
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Sun, 16 October 2005 01:43
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0 divided by anything, is still 0.. so no change in diff ratio will change the load on the engine, with the exception of if your current issue is the car turning the tires on the stall.
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