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Registered:
June 2002
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best easy ae86 engine swap
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Thu, 06 June 2002 00:08
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what will give me most power for least effort.
joe
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Thu, 06 June 2002 04:06
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Simple
4age.
No buts, no ifs, not what ifs...
Thats simply the answer
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Thu, 06 June 2002 06:00
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if the emphasis is on power then the GZE would be just as easy
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Location:
NZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Thu, 06 June 2002 08:06
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Or for a little more power, at not much more hassle... the redtop 4age.
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Thu, 06 June 2002 11:14
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is the red top the 100 kw version as opposed to the 86ish kw one?
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Location:
NZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Fri, 07 June 2002 00:34
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sure is. 
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Fri, 07 June 2002 01:53
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ahhhh... iRally, I really would steer away from a GZE into a sprinter.. It costs more and at the end of the day the car is quite unreliable with that engine.. If you wanna chop gearbox's and snap some diffs.. Then yeh go the GZE.. Otherwise.. the GE would make you happy me thinks..
Anyways... Its your wallayyyy..
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Fri, 07 June 2002 06:54
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is the na 20 valve as easy to fit as the 16 100kw one? it the same block isnt it? would the 20 become a gearbox / diff destroyer?
i read somewhere that the dizzy doesnt clear the firewall, will a microtech or similar fix this issue? will the microtech deal with vvt? all help is greatly recieved.
sorry for all the questions, its just i want to reserch before the wallet comes out.
do u guys reccon 4000 will cover the conversion?
cheers
joe
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Location:
NZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Fri, 07 June 2002 08:45
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20v is more of a mission, but IMO not as hard as some make out.
the dizzy and particularly the rear water outlet will not clear the firewall.
i just cut a hole in the firewall, but since i'm in nz i don't have to worry so much about it being illegal. this will probably be more of a problem for you.
my car isn't completed yet :- so i can't say from personal experience... but the 20v isn't a hell of a lot more powerful than the 16v 4age, so i don't think diff/gearboxes would be a problem.
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Fri, 07 June 2002 12:38
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I disagree on teh diff/gearbox probs
I have done 40 000km in my car, the only thing i have had to replace is teh diff, due to bearing noise. never boke a single driveline bit...touch wood ( but u can blame the turbo from now on!)
this is with a 4agze into ae86 btw...
an no i dont drive like a pussy, the secret is in using a normal clutch, get a 100kw $a-GE flywheel and clutch, get the pressure plate rebiult to provide abouts 1250lb clamp load, run a stock friction plate and it wont slip but it wont be so savage on the driveline to snap stuff.
Fit a button clutch and "things go bang in teh night"..........
Cheers
MIke
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Fri, 07 June 2002 15:10
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I'd have to say 4agze for the best all round value. So far as breaking drivelines, well, thats really up to your legs! Fit an ae86 LSD, chuck on some slicks, with a button clutch and constantly sidestep the clutch from the limiter, and things sure will go bang in the night... But then they would with the 4ac if given sufficient abuse. But have some fun without being needlessly violent and you should find it a good thing.
Another thing - if you fit a naturally aspirated 4ag, try to stick in some 4.3 diff gears - without them a 4ag can be a bit lifeless... (e.g. 3.7) 
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Sat, 08 June 2002 04:35
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Corvid...I did emphasise that if he was after power the GZE would be the easiest option, I didnt say thats what I would put in. 
Personally if I was after decent power I wouldnt go past a 3SGE but then I like N/A and im not afraid of difficult conversions.
Bang for buck the GZE "is" the easiest Hp increase, if you want an engine completely suited to the AE86 chasis then thats a different kettle of soup 
something more like a 100Kw short block with a bigport head, throw some T/B's on with an aftermarket computer and a light flywheel would be a decent conversion if youve got the dollars. 
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Location:
Auckland
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Sat, 08 June 2002 17:55
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This may well be true,
But the GZE will certainly be cheaper to install than a AGE with turbo conversion!
2 cents and counting
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Sun, 09 June 2002 04:13
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Also your Bluetop engine wont last long with a Turbo straped to it unless you keep boost under 6psi, and I havent seen anyone who can keep there hand away from the boost dial up yet when they have a turbo  . You may as well start with the GZE bottom end if you want to turbo as well, all the internals are stronger and the pistons are ceramic coated so you can boost all you want fairly safely. In short just use the GZE and if you get bored with the SC12 get a Nevo pulley kit or goto a SC14
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Sun, 09 June 2002 07:19
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ok it looks as if ill go with the 100kw "red top". what will i need to convert it appart from what i can get from the old engine? im going to use a microtech or similar, so what else do i need?
joe
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Sun, 09 June 2002 08:19
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cut and shut intake, if youre using aftermarket comp then you should be able to run the standard 86Kw ignitor and coil instead of the 100Kw version, fuel pump and lines, transfer the mounts from the old engine, fuel filter, RWD water outlet pipe etc
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Location:
Auckland
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Sun, 09 June 2002 23:41
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| IRA11Y wrote on Sun, 09 June 2002 2:13 PM |
Also your Bluetop engine wont last long with a Turbo straped to it unless you keep boost under 6psi, and I havent seen anyone who can keep there hand away from the boost dial up yet when they have a turbo
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what happens to a bluetop above 6psi ? and how long do you think it will last ..many people prefer the bluetop to red top because of its rev characteristics and it dosent make much less power if you get map version and is a much easier swap if you get a RWD Bluetop already has waterlines/pump ..flywheel clutch possibly ..RWD intake manifold stuff like that .easy
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Mon, 10 June 2002 00:08
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I think IRALLY is saying that any of the bigport engines will invariably fail with a turbo because they are not designed for boost (they dont have a low C/R ) the bottom end is not as strong, the pistons are not ceramic coated and therefore retain heat and eventually crack, if you turn the wick up too far you may also pop a conrod as the bigport blocks dont ( in most cases ) run oil squirters either. Thats why the GZE block is the best starting point, oil squirters, stronger crank and conrods, bigger gudgeon pin, lower C/R, ceramic coated pistons. You could use the 100Kw block if you changed to the lower C/R GZE pistons, I believe the rest of the internals are the same as the GZE.
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Mon, 10 June 2002 00:50
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Also over 6Psi you will get the ring lands starting to break with regular driving after time, the rings are not designed to take the extra load, eventually you will probhably start getting serious blow by thru the valve stem seals as well.
If you want to turbo dont waste your time and money on anything other than the GZE block unless you plan to buy forged pistons, crank and bigger rods, just ask the toymods turbo 4AGE guru how long a standard GE block lasts on roids and Yogi will tell you not very long!
stick with the N/A GE and youll have lots of cheap fun
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Mon, 10 June 2002 03:29
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Bah Corvid, how dare you call my car unreliable! I've got a ze in an ae86, with a brass button, standard diff, g/box etc and i havent had any mechanical probs. Its also got a sc14 running 11-12psi and isnt driven softly. I drive at least70k's everyday.
On the otherhand i also know of someone with a jap spec box and jap lsd diff who's snapped both with a ze. Hehe!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: best easy ae86 engine swap
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Mon, 10 June 2002 16:57
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It all depends on what u want out of it.
If u want a bit of extra power and a nice drivable car then a 4age is great, a bit easier to install and cost a little less.
But if u want some real get up and go and like the trafic light dashes then the 4age isn't the greatest and gze is probably a better option.
I would of liked to go gze but too many things need to be done to the car to accomodate the ze's power apart from just the engine.
Like suspension maily and better breaks, well at least better pads. Plus u need to get it engineered.
Cost a bit too much when all added up at this stage so I went ge and happy with the power, but would like more
As for the gze destroying diffs and gearbox I believe its how its driven. If u like dumping the clutch and doing burnouts well sure things are gonna break. But if driven not too harshly off the line I reckon it would all hold together ok
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