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Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Tue, 04 October 2005 12:01
 
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Are you triggering on the rising or falling edge?
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Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Tue, 04 October 2005 12:17
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rising edge, but i have tried both, i was told i will need the reluctor adapter and shit to boost teh signal, anyone who is willing to come give me a hand? The car kind of is in need of completion
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Tue, 04 October 2005 12:36
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Are you using an inductive sensor?
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Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Tue, 04 October 2005 12:37
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reluctor, 24 tooth 1 tooth, 1ggze
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Tue, 04 October 2005 12:45
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I have an oscilloscope if you need to check the output signal. But I am curious, who told you you needed the reluctor adaptor, and why don't you believe them?
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Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Tue, 04 October 2005 12:50
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i dont know where to get one, i didnt say i didint belive them, but some people have told me to cut teeth off and all sorts of shit to make it a hall sender, i jsut want to to run...even if it runs shitt i just need help coz the computer (laptop) confuses me completely
Anyone? First person help?>
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Tue, 04 October 2005 13:01
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Can you fill us in a bit more about what you have tried, and what the results were? It may be something simple that could be picked up without one of us coming out to have a look. For instance, is the power for the sensor being provided through the ECU, or another source? It might be needing battery voltage, but only be getting a 5V sensor power feed...
I realise you just want the thing fixed, but we are not call out mechanics. I doubt anyone on the forums would be happy to come and fix it for you unless you're willing take the lead in finding the solution. That means sharing with us all the information and opinions you have compiled so far. Hopefully then someone with experience in the area can give you suggestions on how YOU can fix your problem. 
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Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Tue, 04 October 2005 13:09
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Yeh, sorry bout that, well what i have is a reluctor sensor (magnetic) which creates its own power, that is what the box is for, because the reluctor sensors from toyota (ie mine) apparently give a very weak signal, i have the trigger 1 and 2 flashing correctly on the ECU diagnostic lights, but i cannot get the ignition to fire correctly (on the diagnostic lights), nor the
injectors, which leads me to thinking its a computer thing, ive called Steve at wolf and he tried to help but hasnt been able to get it running yet, i have been told to convert it to a hall sender but i dont know how to (cutting off teeth and stuff) Ive tried alot of the settings in sync and reference, ive tried base maps from 7mgte's which are pretty much the same CAS wise, ive tried taking the CAS out and spinning it by hand and with a drill at high speeds, but it doesnt help, Ive tried searching the forums for all the info i can, and wolf couldnt help me so far in getting it to fire correctly.
Steve
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Tue, 04 October 2005 13:25
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The magnetic reluctor sensors generate a sine wave output, of varying amplitude depending on how fast they are turning. This needs to be converted into a square wave for your ECU to be able to use it for triggering (apparantly, I have no experiece with the Wolf). In some of your other posts I recall someone mentioning reluctor adaptor boxes which would do this.
It looks like you will need to get a reluctor adaptor, or us a hall effect or optical sensor instead. If you are not confident playing with this kind of stuff the reluctor adaptor would probably be the easiest option.
Hit up one of the guys that replied to your other threads to tell you how to wire in the reluctor adaptor. If you are feeling adventurous, try making one yourself!
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Tue, 04 October 2005 13:36
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AHH i did ask a few times what it did, but where can i get one of these boxes?
Can i get one tomorrow? 
Have you got msn mate?
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Tue, 04 October 2005 13:40
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u can get one from sas
silverwater automotive services in sydney
they are around 160 bucks i think trade for me so for u i dont know
i can get one from autronic but might take 2 weeks as autronic guy is at bathurst this week
if u really need one i can ring someone but u might not get it for afew days or even a week as i cant get to post office very easily
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Tue, 04 October 2005 13:57
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The Autronic reluctor adaptor is here:
http://www.autronic.com/page_files/sensors.htm
It's quite a basic device, maybe CrUZida can tell you how to build one. There must be stacks of circuits for these on the web, maybe try searching EFI forums or analog circut sites...
FWIW the Autronic SM4 has a built in reluctor adaptor 
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
January 2003
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Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Tue, 04 October 2005 14:20
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Are you serious? Is this all i need to build?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Tue, 04 October 2005 14:37
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There is another circuit here:
http://www.vems-group.org/wiki/index.php?page=Inpu tTrigger%2FAnalogSide
I am found the electrical component of my engineering degree extremely boring, they were always going on about imaginary numbers 
As a result, I am not the best person to give you advice on how to build a reluctor adaptor. But but all means, if you don't want to spend the $50 or whatever to get a prebuilt unit (I would), have a crack at making one yourself. After all, thats how you learn new skills!
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Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Tue, 04 October 2005 14:48
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So if i was to buy one of these, would you guys belive it would make my wolf easier to work with and give me a proper reading, i mean, i think my CAS is pretty much the same as a 4agze, but some people use them and some people dont, its wierd
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Tue, 04 October 2005 20:22
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 00:58
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Yeah, he's seen that Allan.
Hasn't helped a shit.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 02:43
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Well i've done a little more investigation into what i think is a functional "reluctor convertor" circuit. I'll grab the parts i need to test today from Jaycar and do a little testing tonight, instead of watching TV or something else unproductive.
I think $50 or the $130ish that AUtronic charge is a little excessive, these could be made in China for a mere US$5.00 with the right contacts, and retailed for $20!
The Witzl has a mission.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 03:06
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Are you going to send a prototype over here for Steve?
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 03:15
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Basically you have two choices - either build one of the little circuits suggested, or if you really can't be buggered, $50 will buy you a plug in 'reluctor adapter' from AEM (the people that make Wolf) that goes in line with the white plugs just next to the ECU. Although overpriced, this will at least get you going in about 30 seconds. The Wolf ECU itself is alright, but the instructions and software that go with it are definately below par, and calling AEM will probably mean you get to talk to an exasperated Steve, after a considerable wait, who answers hundreds of these same questions every day.
Don't succumb to the Microleb 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 03:30
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| mrshin wrote on Wed, 05 October 2005 11:15 |
and calling AEM will probably mean you get to talk to an exasperated Steve, after a considerable wait, who answers hundreds of these same questions every day.
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Doesn't that tell Wolf something obvious???
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 03:31
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| CrUZsida wrote on Wed, 05 October 2005 13:30 |
| mrshin wrote on Wed, 05 October 2005 11:15 |
and calling AEM will probably mean you get to talk to an exasperated Steve, after a considerable wait, who answers hundreds of these same questions every day.
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Doesn't that tell Wolf something obvious???
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If only... But then, many companies are very good at making their products not-quite-friendly for their target market!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 03:49
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Microsoft?
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 04:12
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On a slightly related topic: I wonder when Wolf are going to update their website? It seems to have been in construction for a bloody long time.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 06:52
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it might be easy to make a relucter interfface
but u have to make sure u get no noise in the system
cheap ecus like wolf and ems and such have problems with noise
and it also has to not miss a beat at atleast 10000 rpm to make sure its ok
i have heard of some devices playin up in the hi rev range
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 07:15
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Agreed, the best option is to buy the adaptor offered by the ECU manufacturer!
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Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 07:22
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Errrt, New train of thought,, i have spoken to steve taylor at wolf and because i have tried spinning the CAS with a drill and it doesnt make a difference, this reluctor adapter will not help me, i am told that it will not help me what so ever, it will be a comptuer setting...so basically someone that knows what all the terms in the computer mean?
Now, the point im getting at at the moment, is that i ahve the LED's on the wolf, reading as correct triggering, trigger one and 2 are fairing respectivley. The next step was to get the spark and the injectors going, but this proves very difficult. The laptop allows you to set the firing order to 0,1,2 (becasue i have 3 injector banks and 3 coil packs) and the only ones that will fire (which is still inconsistant) is the bank that is set to 0
So is there anyone who can help with this?
Steve
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 08:06
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I don't know too much about setting up the WOlf but I have a v4 running a 6 cylinder so if I can be of any help then just ask and I will see what I can do.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 08:10
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Yeah, but is your wolf looking after the ignition yet?
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 08:47
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| CrUZsida wrote on Wed, 05 October 2005 18:10 |
Yeah, but is your wolf looking after the ignition yet?
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Nah, still waiting on my shift box. So won't be any help in that area.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 08:57
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try asking around for some 7m-gte base maps, these should be set up to the same cam trigger, 3 banks of injectors / ignition then just enter in any 1g map data you have into the fuel/spark tables
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 09:13
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AFAIK he is using a 7MGTE base map.
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Location:
gold coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 10:40
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its probably cheaper to buy a microtech and wire it up and it will start first go
hehehe
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 10:53
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Trust me Sideshow, I've told him this many times, haha.
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Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 11:06
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Hehe, well ive been told wolf are supurb after u get them running...Is there ANY of them people who know what they are doing who want to lend a hand? Payment of a carton or such at hand? 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 11:25
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much more fun to work stuff out ( to a point) and learn then pay some mofo for there black art
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 11:26
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bring it to sydney and ill get it runnin for u
tryin to diagnose shit like that over the forums is fukin useless
u need to get a laptop to try to go online to the wolf fukin imposible half the time
haye u had it runnin before
and people wonder y when i quote them 600 to 1000 to wire up some ecus
well now some people understand y
in 10 years of mechanics and conversions and wiring i have only ever worked on 2 or 3 wolf ecus
i guess that tell sme something
anyway i guess u just spoke to the wrong person when tryin to decide what to buy
now why dont u start from scratch
u might learn something too
fit a noid light to an injector and a spark tester to the coil lead
now remove yr dizzy or crank sensor
all u want to do is test the signals without cranking
now the toyota has i think 6 or 3 pulses for the cyl ref
and 24 or something for the home ref
now the dizzy has an inductive signal so the sensors have a common earth and then a signal wire
so this means the 12v or 8 v wore for power to the dizzy is not
needed
the dizzy only needs earth and signal wire
now remove dizzy cap and rotor till u see the sensors and wires that goto the sensor
now u will see a common wire goin to the sensors
usually white
this wire goes to the trig earth on the wolf
now look at the sensor that picks up the 3 or 6 pulse teeth
look at the colour of the signal wire for this sensor and
connect it to the cyl ref of the wolf
now look at the wire for the 24 tooth sensor and connect it to the home trig
now if i read the diagram above seems like u have to cut some of the teeth on the dizzy
not sure bout this but best to check
maybe look at the software and see if u can adjust how many teeth
once u connect the cyl and home wires with ignition on spin the dizzy
se if u get any spark or injector pulse
if u get something refit the dizzy and try to start it
u might have to adjust the dizzy if its anyhting like an ealry ems u had to move the timing back 50 degrees but then on a dizzy that would put the rotor and cap out of alighment
so in the end its best to spend that 1000 bucks and get a pro to do it
if its anyhting like settin up an autronic u definatley have to modify the dizzy teeth
another thing u can do is ring silverwater automotive services
see if the dizzy needs to be modified
they will mod the dizzy for u for around 150 to 200 bucks
thats the price they sort of charge for an autronic dizzy mod for a 4age
geez aint microtechs so much easier hehehe
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 11:30
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| sideshow wrote on Wed, 05 October 2005 21:26 |
bring it to sydney and ill get it runnin for u
tryin to diagnose shit like that over the forums is fukin useless
u need to get a laptop to try to go online to the wolf fukin imposible half the time
haye u had it runnin before
and people wonder y when i quote them 600 to 1000 to wire up some ecus
well now some people understand y
in 10 years of mechanics and conversions and wiring i have only ever worked on 2 or 3 wolf ecus
i guess that tell sme something
anyway i guess u just spoke to the wrong person when tryin to decide what to buy
now why dont u start from scratch
u might learn something too
fit a noid light to an injector and a spark tester to the coil lead
now remove yr dizzy or crank sensor
all u want to do is test the signals without cranking
now the toyota has i think 6 or 3 pulses for the cyl ref
and 24 or something for the home ref
now the dizzy has an inductive signal so the sensors have a common earth and then a signal wire
so this means the 12v or 8 v wore for power to the dizzy is not
needed
the dizzy only needs earth and signal wire
now remove dizzy cap and rotor till u see the sensors and wires that goto the sensor
now u will see a common wire goin to the sensors
usually white
this wire goes to the trig earth on the wolf
now look at the sensor that picks up the 3 or 6 pulse teeth
look at the colour of the signal wire for this sensor and
connect it to the cyl ref of the wolf
now look at the wire for the 24 tooth sensor and connect it to the home trig
now if i read the diagram above seems like u have to cut some of the teeth on the dizzy
not sure bout this but best to check
maybe look at the software and see if u can adjust how many teeth
once u connect the cyl and home wires with ignition on spin the dizzy
se if u get any spark or injector pulse
if u get something refit the dizzy and try to start it
u might have to adjust the dizzy if its anyhting like an ealry ems u had to move the timing back 50 degrees but then on a dizzy that would put the rotor and cap out of alighment
so in the end its best to spend that 1000 bucks and get a pro to do it
if its anyhting like settin up an autronic u definatley have to modify the dizzy teeth
another thing u can do is ring silverwater automotive services
see if the dizzy needs to be modified
they will mod the dizzy for u for around 150 to 200 bucks
thats the price they sort of charge for an autronic dizzy mod for a 4age
geez aint microtechs so much easier hehehe
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gezzus and in english? far out i know i cant type or spell for shit but make an effort dude!
The wolf has some crap points like wideband that isnt really wideband and software thats a bit unfriendly but once tuned they are very nice!
Allan
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 11:41
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sorry i dont have an hour to spare to tell people in perfect english how trigger setups work
but hey us sydney siders arent as anal as you melbourne people
and i dont see u tellin him how to fix his problem
anyway im an electrician to a fukin english teacher if u dont like my typing then ill send u some sheep to fuk
but to the point
wolfs might be good ecus but its when people who might not know 100% what to do with them and i might be one of them because i have had very little experience with them stress for 1 or 2 weeks give them a bad name
any ecu that needs mods to the dizzy or crank sensors means its a cunt to set up
therefore not every joe blow can sort it out easily
this inturn gives the ecu a bad name especially when there is not
much help desk for it
same thing used to happen with microtechs when they first came out but these days they have sorted their problems out and i will always recommend them before a wolf because of the less stress involved
and in the end its up to the manufacture to determine if they give a shit or not
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 11:42
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sorry i dont have an hour to spare to tell people in perfect english how trigger setups work
but hey us sydney siders arent as anal as you melbourne people
and i dont see u tellin him how to fix his problem
anyway im an electrician to a fukin english teacher if u dont like my typing then ill send u some sheep to fuk
but to the point
wolfs might be good ecus but its when people who might not know 100% what to do with them and i might be one of them because i have had very little experience with them stress for 1 or 2 weeks give them a bad name
any ecu that needs mods to the dizzy or crank sensors means its a cunt to set up
therefore not every joe blow can sort it out easily
this inturn gives the ecu a bad name especially when there is not
much help desk for it
same thing used to happen with microtechs when they first came out but these days they have sorted their problems out and i will always recommend them before a wolf because of the less stress involved
and in the end its up to the manufacture to determine if they give a shit or not
which at the moment i dont hehehehehe
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 15:12
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If the ECU requires a VR (variable reluctance) input then that is what should be used.
If the ECU requires a Hall-effect input then that should be used instead.
The internal circuits between a VR input and a Hall-effect input are quite different.
The 'magic box' you speak of will be one of two very different things! It will be either a signal amplifier to amplify the VR signal or a signal conditioner that converts the signal from the VR pattern to a digital square wave.
I am not familiar with the Wolf ECU, but it sounds more like a problem setting up the configuration for the encoder/CPS (crank position sensor) in the ECU than an actual hardware problem. You need to have this configuration right so that the scheduling inside the ECU can take place correctly.
Technically speaking most ECU's will run an engine when tuned well. It is the finer detail that makes the difference between an average ECU and a good ECU. For example resolution of maps, signal filtering both hardware and software, ease of tuning etc...
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Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 16:15
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Haha, yes fun it is...but when u get your licence in a few hours, and u want a car to thrash around in its really bad lol. Nah i just been at it for weeks and weeeks now and im so stumped, but i think im getting somewhere, slowly.
Any other ideas guys?
Would someone be able to explain the terms on the wolf 3d laptop if i wrote up what was on the screen (certain settings that i dont know what they do)
Steve
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Wed, 05 October 2005 17:07
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The Theories of Teh Witzl
from what i know, the CAS will have TWO x 2 pulse/RPM sensors and a 24 pulse/RPM sensor (G1 and G2, and the 24pulse Ne)... each having a common earth (G-).
The two G sensors are 360 degrees out of phase, and the one you will want to use is the G2 sensor, since it triggers on TDC compression for cylinder 1.
ref: http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h23.pdf p.9 onwards
In the standard setup from Toyota, the ignitor has internal logic circuits which determine which coil to fire based on the ECu's output signals IGt, IGdA, and IGdB. The TOyota ECU works out these signals using the reference signals of G1 and G2....
Now - in the case of an aftermarket ignition system, such as the Wolf 3D v.4 in question....
# G1 is not used.
# G2 becomes the "SYNC" trigger (TRIG2), being a 1 pulse per camshaft revolution signal, generating its signal as the engine approached TDC compression on cylinder 1
# Ne becomes the "REF" trigger (TRIG1), being a 24 pulse per camshaft revolution signal.
# There is NO NEED to cut any teeth, unless there is something i am fundamentally missing here....
Some Tips:
# ENSURE that you DO NOT connect the shielding from the Wolf's ignition trigger wires to any earth or other point at the engine. The factory toyota loom has the shielding connected to earth... this is not cool in the case of aftermarket ECU's, as they generate their own internal signal earth and shielding in a special manner to ensure signal clarity.
# be sure to have a MINIMAL length of unsheilded wires where you make your connection. In fact if possible maintain the shielding by folding it back, connect your wires and then RE-WRAP them with the sheilding when making your connections at the CAS. Unshielded wires induce signal degredation
# In some cases, the common signal earth to the unused G2 sensor can cause signal noise. It is recommended to cut the earth wire from the G2 sensor to eliminate this possibility (but be SURE you have it correct - it should be white inside the CAS)
Now.... if you have connected the CAS as per the diagram Alan provided above, what is possible is that you have used the G1 sensor and not the G2 sensor.
-> Check the wiring from your Wolf to your CAS and that it is correct, fully shielded, and that the shielding is not connected to anything at the CAS end of the loom.
-> Make sure the CAS is aligned correctly and that everything is good
I have also noticed you are triggering by a RISING EDGE... can you confirm if this is to compensate for the Toyota reluctor sensors' ouput going positive first, and then falling below zero and then coming back to zero.
I ask this because the installation book for the Wolf3dV4 keeps saying the reluctor must go negative first....
*** much information gathered from Autoshop101 documents, wolf3d books, my experience wiring up an Autronic SM4 to a 7M-GTE, and a few other bits of info here and there
I've taken the below from the linked PDF above, so that all can see clearly what I am refering to and you can work it out for yourself. Read the PDF above to understand fully.
*note: these specifically refer to a 7M-gte igntion system, but should be applicable to the 1G-GZE system
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Thu, 06 October 2005 03:21
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I too had the same furstrations with my 4agte engine. When you cranked the engine the timing would jump all over the place but when you managed to fire up the engine would run but rough.
Talked to steve @ wolf3d and I bought the "black box" that goes between the ems and crank signal. Bang fired straigt away. Starts and runs like dream, now I have to fix other problems. Fork out for black box and fix all your problems in 1min.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Thu, 06 October 2005 09:27
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| rx793 wrote on Thu, 06 October 2005 00:15 |
Any other ideas guys?
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Did you try the map i modified for you?? The mode 0 sync offset needed to be 1 and not 3 like in your map if the triggering is the same as the 7mgte. Your trigger levels also need adjusting in the software otherwise sync errors will occur, are you getting these?? If sync errors occur #1 cyl will fire, it will lose sync, wait for the cam pulse again, then spark the #1 cylinder again - sounds like what you described above.
Also what firmware version is your wolf running??
| rx793 wrote on Thu, 06 October 2005 00:15 |
Would someone be able to explain the terms on the wolf 3d laptop if i wrote up what was on the screen (certain settings that i dont know what they do)
Steve
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What ones do you need to know??
| sideshow wrote on Wed, 05 October 2005 18:40 |
its probably cheaper to buy a microtech and wire it up and it will start first go
hehehe
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what exactly like my 1uz did with a wolf 3d?? Used all the factory sensors, controlled the factory idle stepper motor and cost the same as a microtech I think alot of it comes down to how it is wired. But one things for sure the wolf manual is crap, they really need to explain it in way more detail.
[Updated on: Thu, 06 October 2005 10:55]
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Thu, 06 October 2005 11:26
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for sure it comes down to how it is wired
read the first post
i didnt want to fork out the 1000 bucks to wire it so thats y u get problems sometimes
especially when there is fuk all people who can help u with any small probs u get
for me to make ok money i will wire up a microtech
for me to wire up a wolf the customer will prob take it elsewhere
so it comes down to how much money they want to spend
a wolf uses same box as an autronic smc so maybe how it runs and works is similar
and an autronic is a pain to set up initially
but once it is set up correctly it can go for ages
no one here sees as much dodgey shit as i do
so i understand y people get these problems
to save abit of money or to stress for a month
which one would u do
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Thu, 06 October 2005 13:38
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Teh Witzl has the Answer!
Well here you have it.... you in fact will need to wire the CAS reluctor sensors in REVERSE!
Why??
# In the installation manual for the Wolf3D, section 3.2.1 page 10 (and repeatedly in other locations), it states that the reluctor output Must look like this:
# From all the reading i've done, Toyota reluctor signals (and virtually all other reluctor ignition signals) are in fact the opposite - the voltage goes positive first, and then negative.
# To obtain the correct signal, you need to reverse the wires you are using! This means the white wires which were previously common earth are now your trigger wires, and the other colours are your common earth (dont forget to NOT connect G1, as this will cause signal noise if it's connected)
How do i know i'm right?
I asked Mr Velleman, the handheld oscilliscope!
He said this:
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Thu, 06 October 2005 13:45
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ok so what wave forms do you see if connected as per that diagram from the wolf website that i posted?
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Thu, 06 October 2005 14:18
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yes im lazy and flipped the image... but that IS the waveform output you get wiring acording to the connections wolf gave you.
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Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Thu, 06 October 2005 16:18
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Okkkk,
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Did you try the map i modified for you??
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I wrote my other before i recieved your email with the maps in it, i get my day off tomorrow and intend on trying it then, i appriciate you doing that for me.
As far as the new theory goes, why would i need to wire it up backwards? the 7mgte and 4agze (pretty much the same sensor setup apparently) do not require to be wired up this way, can this not be changed on the computer with the polarity settings? rising edge? falling edge? Cheers for the time Witzl, i wish i could understand the books and info like that
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Thu, 06 October 2005 22:58
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hey witzl
it might be bit hard to reverse the wires as the white wire is common and splits into 2 or 3 inside the dizzy
if the wolf works like an autronic all u do is rising or falling edge
but in the end if u run a reluctor interface it changes the sine wave to a square wave so i guess thats y u can have a rising edge or falling edge settup when u have a square wave
and when selecting rising or falling edge all it does is adjust the timing by afew degrees
the best thing for him to do it to find out if anyone has run a wolf without a reluctor interface properly on a toyota dizzy sensor
with all this fuking round if the reluctor interface fixes his problem then just spend the 200 bucks or whatever it is and get the right part
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Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Fri, 07 October 2005 01:11
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Steve from wolf has told me that the reluctor interface will not fix my problem, becasue even when i spin the CAS at high speeds with a cordless drill, it does not make it fire any diffrently.
Steve
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Fri, 07 October 2005 02:58
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Sideshow,
yeah im well aware of how annoying and fiddly it is to reverse the wiring of the reluctor sensors, but i've done it before and it's not really that big a deal - it's not like you are making a custom dissy or anything!!
Agreed that the Wolf3D should be able to use the stock toyota type signal but just changing from ralling edge to rising edge (or vice versa) - but that is dependant on where the wolf applies the inversion and where/what conditioning it gives the reluctor signal.
If it converts the reluctor signal via a fixed circuit, then the circuit has to be either one way or the other (it cannot be both).....
Anyway. I'd love to play with all this crap - but i dont have a wolf3D
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Location:
Forrestdale W.A.
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Fri, 07 October 2005 04:07
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This thread with the info from everyone should be kept and put up as a tech doc. It is not only useful for the Wolf ecu but also goes a long way to explaining the basic principles of ignition systems for Toyota's as a whole for those of us who are not electrically minded! Give me a bunch of spanners anyday, I hate trying to fix electrickery problems.
Cheers
Mark
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Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
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Fri, 07 October 2005 04:14
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Well, after trying all this i ahvent found a solution...All i can get is what ever injector bank set to 0 to fire, doesnt expain to me why this is the only one firing. I cant work it out.
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Re: Perth - Someone who knows sync and reference with WOLF 3d?
