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Toymods » Tech & Conversions » Wade 267° in my 18psi 4AGZE - help me with setup please!

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nick.parker
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Perth
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January 2005
Wade 267° in my 18psi 4AGZE - help me with setup please! Wed, 05 October 2005 00:55 Go to next message
Hi,
With the help of a good friend I've installed some Wade 267° cams in my 4AGZE (and replaced the shims that needed it) which is running an 18psi SC14 setup.
Firstly the idle is STOCK. I was amazed that it barely changed, a maybe 1 - 2mm of Hg less vaccuum.
Anyway I have some adjustable gears and have tried a few different settings, and have generally remembered to fix up the ignition timing each time I change the exhaust cam Wink.
With my standard tune, I did some careful driving monitoring lambda on a wideband system. but interestingly my car was too lean at low revs and too rich at higher revs (I haven't been revving past about 4500rpm yet).

Would leaner at low rpm be cause by blow though (too much overlap) and richer at high rpm because exhaust is opening too early? Can anyone recommend a good way to setup these cams ( a starting point!)

When I corrected these lean and rich situations the power is improved a bit, but I still think the cams aren't right!

The car is WAY down on the low end torque it used to have with stock cams, and its not feeling very strong in the mid revs any more either.

Regards, Nick

[Updated on: Wed, 05 October 2005 00:57]

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nick.parker
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Perth
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January 2005
Re: Wade 267° in my 18psi 4AGZE - help me with setup please! Wed, 05 October 2005 01:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message

How about I re-phrase.
Has anyone got Wade cams on their 4AG(Z)E? If so how did you set them up? I tried the stock position but it was gutless! Though it still idled ok and drove ok.
Regards, Nick.
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Ben Wilson
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Canberra
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May 2002
Re: Wade 267° in my 18psi 4AGZE - help me with setup please! Wed, 05 October 2005 01:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
267's will really only come good around 4.5-5k or so. I'd suggest that when you say the're gutless, you're just not revving it hard enough...
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mr2gze
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Location:
Perth
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May 2004
Re: Wade 267° in my 18psi 4AGZE - help me with setup please! Wed, 05 October 2005 02:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nick.parker wrote on Wed, 05 October 2005 09:48


How about I re-phrase.
Has anyone got Wade cams on their 4AG(Z)E? If so how did you set them up? I tried the stock position but it was gutless! Though it still idled ok and drove ok.
Regards, Nick.




Hi, MR2MK1SC had hks 264' I/E cams in his gze, and subsequently has them in his turbo engine now. He might be a good place to start. Smile
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nick.parker
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Perth
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January 2005
Re: Wade 267° in my 18psi 4AGZE - help me with setup please! Wed, 05 October 2005 02:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Hi,
I just want to get a couple of hours on the cams before revving the car higher. So I guess if I'm patient I'll probably find you're right!

I was advised that the Wade cams were good over 2500 - 6500rpm.
I'm wondering if these are too big as low end torque was a thrill with the stock cams. I was hoping to move this same torque level up the rev range a bit with these cams.

Cheers, Nick
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Ben Wilson
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May 2002
Re: Wade 267° in my 18psi 4AGZE - help me with setup please! Wed, 05 October 2005 03:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sorry - For some reason I thought they were bigger than that(must have been reading too many posts at once). What timing figures did you start off with?

Bill Sherwood has a nice little demo on his site of the effects of cam timing.

http://www.billzilla.org/engvariable.html

[Updated on: Wed, 05 October 2005 03:19]

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nick.parker
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Perth
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January 2005
Re: Wade 267° in my 18psi 4AGZE - help me with setup please! Wed, 05 October 2005 05:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Hi,
Initially I just drove the car with both timing gears set to zero.
So approximately the 'stock' timing.(unless the cams are retard or advanced compare to stock?)

I confess I didn't understand how to setup the timing according the data Wade sent with the cams, although now I have confirmed with them what they meant. I'm just not sure how I can do it.

I'm more electronics than mechanics - I designed and built the engine management I'm using!

Cheers, Nick
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improvedae86
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Location:
Melbourne
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January 2003
 
Re: Wade 267° in my 18psi 4AGZE - help me with setup please! Wed, 05 October 2005 05:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
267 is tell nobody the full idea on what the cams is like . If you don't have all the specs speak to Keith there and get all the information that way you have a idea on where to start .
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nick.parker
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Perth
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January 2005
Re: Wade 267° in my 18psi 4AGZE - help me with setup please! Wed, 05 October 2005 06:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hi,
I have the rest of the specs. From a quick search it looked as if quite a few people on Toymods buy 4AGE cams from Wade. The 872A grind (aka 267s) seemed popular. I thought somebody might have some experience to share.

Basically 220degs @ 0.050, 0.317" cam lift

TimingAdv .......... Timing @050
Open ... Close ... Open ... Close
Exhaust ... 64 ... 23 ... 40.5 ... -1
Intake ... 24 ... 63 ... 0.5 ... 39
Deg Over-lap 47 ... Deg Over-lap 0


Cheers, Nick

[Updated on: Wed, 05 October 2005 06:39]

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TE72_Turbo
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Canberra
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May 2002
 
Re: Wade 267° in my 18psi 4AGZE - help me with setup please! Wed, 05 October 2005 14:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I ran the same 267 wade cams in my 4AGTE. As you mentioned, they do knock a bit out of the low rpm torque, but start to really work at around 4000-4500rpm on a boosted motor.

Wade recommend setting the lobe centres (maximum lift) at 110 degrees before & after top dead centre (110/110). This seems to be a good starting point. With dyno time, you could tweak the timing a little to gain a few extra kw in the midrange/topend. I set mine up with a dial guage on the top of the shims and a degree wheel on the crank pulley.

Cheers
Phil
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bpt-4w
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Location:
blue mountains , sydney
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May 2004
Re: Wade 267° in my 18psi 4AGZE - help me with setup please! Wed, 05 October 2005 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
are these cams u put in made for NA or for forced induction?
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Ben Wilson
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Canberra
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May 2002
Re: Wade 267° in my 18psi 4AGZE - help me with setup please! Wed, 05 October 2005 23:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nick - To set them up properly, you need a degree wheel, a dial guage, a magnetic base and a lot of time. If you don't, I'd suggest talking to a local performance workshop and asking them to set them up for you.

Without a decent baseline, it's almost impossible to tell where you are going.
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nick.parker
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Perth
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January 2005
Re: Wade 267° in my 18psi 4AGZE - help me with setup please! Thu, 06 October 2005 02:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Hi,

The 267°s were developed for the 4AGE, but I was advised they would work well on my 4AGZE. Ben, I have a mate with a dial gauge so I can probably beg him to come and help me set them up correctly!

I will reserve further judgement on the cams until them, but unless I can get the mid-range _really_ good, I want my old low end back!

The car absolutely _hauled_ on the stock cams at 18psi...maybe bigger valves would have been the way to go....I was/am hoping to get this same massive torque at higher RPM.

Cheers, Nick.
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nick.parker
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Perth
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January 2005
Re: Wade 267° in my 18psi 4AGZE - help me with setup please! Thu, 13 October 2005 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Hi,

Well I just thought I'd finish up this thread. My mate helped me setup the cams to Wade's specs using a dial gauge, wasn't so hard after all Wink.

After a quick drive, and a quick retune of my ECU by me, and then another quick drive the car was going reasonably quite well, more in the mid to high rpm, but still thanks to 18psi perfectly drivable at any rpm. Honestly I felt like I lost out pretty badly on how the car was previously going with stock cams.

Anyway, as my first bit of timing exploration I advanced the inlet cam 5° and also the exhaust 5° to maintain the same small overlap and hence idle vacuum, and then retarded ignition timing back 10° and went for another drive.

WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!

In the low-mid to mid -upper rpm range the car is hauling again.
I have yet to play anymore but seat of the pants I'd say heaps of torque (maybe 20%) was added across a large rev range.

I can't wait to play more. Anyway thanks for everyones suggestions.

Moral = I guess Wades cams timings don't work so well for 18psi of supercharged air! But they are a fine starting point.

Cheers, Nick.
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oldcorollas
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Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
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January 2003
 
Re: Wade 267° in my 18psi 4AGZE - help me with setup please! Thu, 13 October 2005 14:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nick.parker wrote on Wed, 05 October 2005 10:55

Would leaner at low rpm be cause by blow though (too much overlap)


jst ti answer this.. i think so.. since the O2 sensor measure O2 pressure in exhaust... unburnt air looks like lean (as do misfires) (IIRC??)
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myne
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Registered:
October 2005
Re: Wade 267° in my 18psi 4AGZE - help me with setup please! Thu, 13 October 2005 22:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
If you're using the stock SC you're probably running out of puff high up (not making enough hp to make up for the drain of the sc). You also risk damaging the teflon seals.
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nick.parker
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
January 2005
Re: Wade 267° in my 18psi 4AGZE - help me with setup please! Fri, 14 October 2005 00:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hi,

I don't thrash the car too badly (now I'm 30 and got two little kids!). Running 18psi was a real experiment, and I have been daily driving it with the occasional 'blats' on the way to work for about 4.5 months now and even to my surprise the SC appears to be standing the test of time so far. So I think I have proven an 18psi SC14 setup can work with a mild driver, on a internally STOCK 8:1 4AGZE!

The SC will always make more power than it uses, even if the returns are diminishing! Look as dragsters running 60-80psi of boost, no-one tells them that this is inefficient, and they should run 6psi Laughing

The 'Teflon Seals' you mention is actually a teflon coating on the alluminium rotors to reduce clearances among other things. This has been known to burn off at high SC overdrive ratios.
Beleive it or not most people who have 'burnt' this coating have been running faster SC speeds than me. My SC is doing about 10K at 7500rpm - this was my design target. I get so much boost because of increased SC displacement.

Cheers, Nick.

[Updated on: Fri, 14 October 2005 00:24]

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nick.parker
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Location:
Perth
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January 2005
Re: Wade 267° in my 18psi 4AGZE - help me with setup please! Fri, 14 October 2005 00:23 Go to previous message
Old Corollas,

Yes, using wideband O2 can be a bastard when using cams with overlap because of blow through. But when you're 'on cam' this effect should disappear. Just as well since this is where you are making power.

Also I guess don't inject fuel to early if you have overlap (assuming you have aftermarket ECU) -this is where I imagine a stock ECU would be crap. I have purposely tried to adjust my injection timing to achieve this - stops raw fuel being 'blown through'.... (edit : not that I have any 'real' overlap)

Cheers, Nick.

[Updated on: Fri, 14 October 2005 00:35]

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