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Registered:
November 2002
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Locked diff
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Tue, 07 January 2003 07:07
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Is anyone running a locked diff in there sprinter?
Was thinking of locking it for hill climbs etc?
If you have it how did it affect the handling?
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Location:
Japan
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Locked diff
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Tue, 07 January 2003 09:23
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Hey Hypo,
I am considering this option myself on my own Sprinter, anything has to be better than the standard open wheeler...
Any information about this subject would be great! Has Anyone got experience for locked diffs in Sprinters?
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Locked diff
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Tue, 07 January 2003 10:02
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Yeah, it's not hard to do. Thing is, it will give you understeer/oversteer when you dont always want it, like any locked diff, and be sure to have a supply of diff centres/axles handy if you give it a good caning 
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Location:
A.C.T
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Locked diff
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Tue, 07 January 2003 10:15
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Haha your speaking to the locked-diff master here lol. I've owned 3 cars which have had their diff's welded-up, and i can say this, if your car has the power, it's worth every cent getting your diff locked. Despite the fact i weld my own centres, i wouldn't think twice about doing it all again. Also don't pay any more than $50 to get your centre locked, i've seen many people trying to make a packet by just wealding a little plate into someones centre, and sometimes they don't even use a plate!
My little Mazda 1300 station-wagon used to be a little bitch of a thing to drive, any time i used to try and launch the thing, it would wheelspin for 1st, 2nd, and most of third gear, just doing single-leggers everywhere, especially out of corners due to the weight transfer. After locking the centre, it suddenly wanted to sit down and go halfway through second gear, instead of it's usual tyre-frying action. as well as this, i was actually able to start feeding the power in just after the apex of corners, instead of waiting for it to straighten up more. The bodyroll was just a killer for the open diff, but with the locker in it, it just put the power down nicely.
The only 'problem' as such with the locker was the slight understeer it caused on initial turn-in, other than that it was a lot more predictable. Despite what some people say, lockers dont make the car 'Suddenly step-out' sideways, it is quite controlled and anyone with any car control can easily feel when it is about to step sideways, it also depends on your suspension setup, but all the cars i have driven with lockers (re: HEAPS!) have all been quite a smooth transition from slight understeer to progressive oversteer (obviously with the amount of throttle introduced).
Also the understeer problem can be cured by adjusting your driving style slightly. If you didn't already do it, trail braking is a good way to help cure the slight turn-in understeer. By turning in while still on the brakes, your front wheels have the weight-transfer advantage and in turn allows for a sharper turn-in.
There is only one thing to note here, Locking the diff in your car is costly in the long run (re: tyres and axles!) and also care must be taken if you intend to drive the vehicle on the public streets. Not only is it illegal to drive a car with a locked centre (voids insurance too) it is also a bit of a handfull to drive on greasy public roads in the rain. By a bit of a handful, i mean a BIG bit. My standard Corona with the starfire motor will quite happily drift sideways in any gear at any speed in the wet, and it will even sit on the spot spinning both wheels (obviously) in second gear without bogging down. This means that a locked centre is not suitable for street use, due to the fact that if it starts raining, you could find yourself in quite a bit of trouble. Not to mention if you lend your car to someone and they enter a corner too quickly, start understeering, get scared and shut the throttle, then around she goes into a pole... I learnt this the hard way, my friend was lucky to survive after i lent him my car.
So yes, lock it if it's for track use, an lsd would be ideal but not everyone has that much cash, but if the car's for street use, i don't suggest you do this.
(by the way, my 1300 wagon has a 12A Bridge-port... just incase any of you thought i was being a little optimistic with my Mazda's wheelspinning antics lol)
[Updated on: Tue, 07 January 2003 10:19]
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Location:
Shepparton
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Locked diff
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Tue, 07 January 2003 11:45
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MMMMMMMMM Lockers are heaps of fun. Till you break something that is. When i had a T18 ass end in my car it had a 4:11 Locker in it which i welded myself. I laid a couple of bolts across the sun gears and tacked them in place, then welded the sun gears to the carrier and then proceeded to fill the whole thing up with mig. When you do it you have to be careful not to get it too hot of the case hardening will go out the window and it will very quickly whine to the point of insanity. Then let it cool down in the open air. may take 4-5 hours before you put it in. with the 3t in my car it was enough to spin 2nd everyday of the week and 3rd in the wet (with 13x7's) I pulled it out cos i decided to get a missus and it was too hard driving around with her complaining about the bouncing on u turns and sideways moments(daily). 
I then put a ta22 diff in (anouther 4:11) but thins time an open wheeler. and i was doing nuts at tafe one might and twisted the whole housing and bent control arms and panhard rod mounts!!!
so next day i went to the wreckers and got a stock corolla ass end and bolted that in along with all of my spare control arms and i reshaped the panhard mount.
If my ke70 wasnt a daily driver then i would put a locker straight back in (i'd even go back to tassie to find my old locker which is covered up in the bush somewhere for safe keeping!) but it is a daily driver so i cant do that...
Like TOYROTA said they are one of the most predictable things to put in your car cos its gunna react the same way every time and you just have to modify your driving style to suit the steering issues.
But even just driving normally on one you will go through a shiteload more tyres on the rear. But hey....its fun  
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Locked diff
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Thu, 09 January 2003 05:41
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Ok how exactly do you lock a sprinter diff. A few people have said that they wont do it as its to small?
Anyone wanna explain so that I can get someone to have a go at it for me?
Someone did say they can mini spool it for $250
Is this a good option and a good price?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Locked diff
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Thu, 09 January 2003 07:26
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A mini spool is definitely better than a locker, although still not as good as a full spool. $250 seems like a reasonable price.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Locked diff
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Thu, 09 January 2003 09:01
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i've heard you can also put early model hilux diffs in without too much hassle, how true is it, has anyone done it, surely it can't be that hard can it?
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Locked diff
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Fri, 10 January 2003 01:24
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Not wanting to sound like a complete moron, but what is a mini spool diff ?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Locked diff
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Fri, 10 January 2003 02:33
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I have to ask the same question what is mini spool?
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Locked diff
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Sat, 11 January 2003 01:16
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I have just locked the diff in my Corolla, by welding. The diff is a T series 6.7" 4.1:1, out of a RA23. I removed the diff from the center housing, and removed the crown wheel. I should also have removed the bearings, but did not. This way no heat effects the bearings or crownwheel, and nothing will have a reason to wine when you are finnished. I did not use a plate, but just welded everything up, to the housing. Idealy, some pre-heat is needed on the housing so it does not crack, or you can just weld a second time after it is hot. I don't think 5 hours is needed to cool. The crystal structure is probably set after 15 mins and can be water cooled after that.
This is my daily driver, but I build it more for the track and spirited driving. There is no need to get sideways unless you want to. With good tyres you can keep it strait in the wet, no drama. A locked diff is faster around corners, and better acceleration from a stop. I want to get a TRD or KAAZ LSD. They are 4 pinion and clutch type. I will get a 2-way probably. $1800. The KAAZ has bigger plates. The LSD will feel better on the street.
I agree, if you have a girlfriend thats not into spirited driving and its your dailer driver, stick to a open diff or get a LSD. If your into track practice, getting the most fun out of your car, experementing, donuts, go for the locker.
If you need a locker, a full spool is best. That replaces all the diff housing with a new part that is lighter. A mini-spool just replaces the diff gears and is put in the standard housing. No welding is needed.
I am told race cars like V8 supertourers use a full spool (locked) center.
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Location:
Shepparton
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Locked diff
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Mon, 13 January 2003 10:03
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The V8 supercars have another form of locker called a detroit locker as do f1 cars and alot of other racers
they work by only being locked when the foot is on the throttle. On the over run they are just free wheeling. this is good when you have to push one of the f&^kers in and out of a workshop around corners (anyone who has pushed a car with a welded diff knows how hard they are to turn)
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Location:
Albany WA
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Locked diff
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Mon, 24 November 2003 16:28
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If your sprinter happens to be pretty powerful and you've got a bit of cash, look at a hilux diff conversion. Then go down to your friendly 4x4 parts dealer and look at a "lockrite" (locks when powers on) or, to impress your mates, an Air locker (locker on a switch). Either of these ought to make your car quite streetable while still giving loads of traction- plus, being 4x4 components, they can handle shitloads of torque.
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Location:
camden
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Locked diff
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Wed, 26 November 2003 04:08
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i thought lockers were a bit hairy in the wet but if v8 supercars use them how do they handle so good in the wet?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Locked diff
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Wed, 26 November 2003 04:35
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Could it be that they're only used on racetracks and piloted by skilled race drivers? 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Locked diff
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Wed, 26 November 2003 04:40
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with tyres that cost more than your car
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Locked diff
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Thu, 27 November 2003 11:48
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| Fat_KE70 wrote on Mon, 13 January 2003 18:03 |
The V8 supercars have another form of locker called a detroit locker as do f1 cars and alot of other racers
they work by only being locked when the foot is on the throttle. On the over run they are just free wheeling. this is good when you have to push one of the f&^kers in and out of a workshop around corners (anyone who has pushed a car with a welded diff knows how hard they are to turn)
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V8 Supercars are required by the rules to run a spool only.
F1 cars have never run Detroit Lockers AFAIK. Up until the early 80's F1 cars ran Salisbury type (clutch pack) or ZF type (cam & pawl) diffs. Variations of the Torsen diff were used during the turbo era. F1 cars now use electro/mechanical or hydro/mechanical diffs. Details are hard to find due to secrecy.
Detroit Lockers have been regarded as inferior for many years now precisely due to the way they function. Off the gas they free wheel and as soon as you get on the gas behave like a spool and snap the rear into a slide.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Locked diff
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Thu, 27 November 2003 11:55
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Yep, Detroit lockers are harsh and nasty. Great for the drags but I wouldn't use one for anything else.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Locked diff
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Fri, 28 November 2003 00:12
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I have a locker in my 20v sprinter.
On the track it is a god-send. Cuts at least 1 - 2 seconds off my lap times and lets me see higher speeds out of the corners.
Although it does tend to make the car understeer quite a bit - especially with hoosier track slicks pushing the back wheels..
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Locked diff
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Fri, 28 November 2003 07:19
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I have seen the spool that craig lowndes runs as i went on a tour of his workshop about a year ago 
it was a full spool that they fabricate them selves...
as for pushing them, u ever seen the things they put around the wheels that have rollers on that pull in to lift the wheel off the ground, they then have 4 wheels on the tray thing
thats how they push em into workshops
heheh
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