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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Thu, 20 October 2005 16:16
 
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but isn't that abotu the same as a set of EFI-hardware of... whats that american brand that are similar? TWM?
to be honest, these companies alreay proved excellent TB's and you are putting yourself in for a world of pain to get them right...
but it's a heck of a journey
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Fri, 21 October 2005 00:53
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how are you making them?? whats involved in the process??
pics of moulds? machining?
sounds cool 
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Fri, 21 October 2005 06:49
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Casting? That is probably less cost efficient than milling a throttle with custom bolt patterns (if you want to keep the 4AG manifold), so you have a thin throttle (RB26 style) and attaching a tapered set of trumpets.
Although, for what you are suggesting, that is a reasonable price. The TWM set that oldcorollas suggested goes for USD$2517 for 45mm and 48mm. Although that does include injectors, rails, linkages and trumpets.
There are also a couple of local companies that do very good throttle bodies (DCOE pattern) for around $1100 up to 50mm.
I just had another read of your first post. Are you actually putting them on a 4AG?
Either way, good luck! I'm in the same boat as ed, I'd love to see how your going to do it
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Fri, 21 October 2005 07:20
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The patterns are made out of timber so need 2, 1 for 3 throttles and 1 for the tps throttle as well. also it has a core box for the central hole ,then cast up and heat treated, At the moment they are being machined up, need 2 jigs to hold them so more money .
The prototypes are of 50mm and the black tops wont go out to this out all 47mm tops hence my new babies at 50mm for my altezza motor .
these will be the same as black top 1s but no vacuum lines and no bleed off screws ,so if any 1 wonted to stroke there 20v out to 1940cc with 7a crank and bore ,these would bolt on .
the next step is stamping out the linkages there are 7different 1s to a set of 4 quads .They have been laser cut out and need pressing into shape etc
also the springs have been made up as well ,and im waiting for the plastic spacer to be made
then its off to the guy that makes the throttle shafts and butterflys and after i pay every 1 out and work on the price im hoping to put on 10%to cover the patterns and tooling costs .that price includes the gst as well in my price so keeping it down as low as possible to every 1
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Fri, 21 October 2005 07:30
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well, good luck 
it sounds like it is actually worht the effort!!!
so you could have throttleshafts/linkages made to any width and spacing?
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Fri, 21 October 2005 07:34
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yeah stewy any size you wont all done and fitted correctly also might be sending some back to japan for the s2000 motor as toda make inlets to suit the toyota throttles but only in 45mm but mugen wont a fortune for there quad system and its 50mm and about 6times the price
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Fri, 21 October 2005 07:38
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fantastic.....
/me starts thinking about quad throttled SC motor 
i guess thats the thing.. there are solutions out there, but they are either DCOE based, or old motorbike TB's, or cost a packet...
pics? *nudge nudge* 
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Fri, 21 October 2005 07:58
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in the next 2 weeks should be finished
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Fri, 21 October 2005 09:20
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nahh, they are mostly DCOE based...
same for TWM... but you can space out the twin barrels.. not the same as spacing individual carbs tho
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Fri, 21 October 2005 13:09
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As far as honda S2000 throttles, TWM also make throttles, and they are around the USD$2000 mark. So this is going on a BEAMS 3SGE? That's the way it shoulda been from the factory anyway!
As far as the individually made shafts go... Now I see your direction on this! I shall watch this project carefully!
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Mon, 24 October 2005 09:40
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ok should have pics by the end of this week
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Location:
melb
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Mon, 24 October 2005 12:17
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I would have thought it would be easier to make the housing out of a block of aluminium. Then mill the size you want. This is how I am going to make some spares for my engine (when it runs)
Good luck.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Mon, 24 October 2005 12:56
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ahh, but blocks of aluminium are not the cheapest..
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Tue, 25 October 2005 09:51
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yeah thats right ben but mine will bolt 2 4age 20v ,all TODA inlets and 3sge TRD inlets as well and are complete bar ram tubes
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Tue, 25 October 2005 12:28
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Ah I'd love to put ITB's on the 2J, but just can't justify the cost. Anway what you are doing looks mighty promising and I'm keen to see any pics, performance specs when you are done.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Tue, 25 October 2005 12:55
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| Alchemist wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 22:28 |
Ah I'd love to put ITB's on the 2J
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Lwr Templestowe, Melbourne
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Tue, 25 October 2005 14:24
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 22:55 |
| Alchemist wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 22:28 |
Ah I'd love to put ITB's on the 2J
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I'm guessing that isn't you Ed. Unless you have tits.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Tue, 25 October 2005 22:07
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ed - Is that an inverted GT-R plenum?
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Tue, 25 October 2005 22:40
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yup
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Wed, 26 October 2005 04:14
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 08:40 |
yup
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looks bewdiful
good to see some "grass roots" modifying still happening and can't wait to hear it!!
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Wed, 26 October 2005 04:35
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It would sound a lot better wihtout the plenum....
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Wed, 26 October 2005 14:27
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.... and if you\'ve got a plenum like that, why would you want size throttles? One big one would be far smarter.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Vancouver
Registered:
June 2004
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Fri, 28 October 2005 09:43
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Fri, 28 October 2005 14:41
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that's an uncanny resemblance What diameter is that one?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Sat, 29 October 2005 00:42
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the 1st few pics are the TRD 3sge inlet manifold and the next show the new 50mm quad casting and the other 1 is the trd 1s that they use which is a black top 1
another thing my machinist thinks we can take the new 1s out to 52mm for 2jz multi throttles as well
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Frankston, Victoria
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Mon, 31 October 2005 03:26
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These will bolt directly onto a 16V head correct? If so I'll be very interested in 2 sets within a month or two.
Kev.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles
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Mon, 31 October 2005 03:42
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| gianttomato wrote on Sat, 29 October 2005 04:12 |
| Alchemist wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 22:28 |
Ah I'd love to put ITB's on the 2J.....
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is that your corona?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Mon, 31 October 2005 03:50
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Yes, does it not make you happy in pants?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Mon, 31 October 2005 04:08
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Mon, 31 October 2005 14:20 |
Yes, does it not make you happy in pants?
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understatement of the year
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Wed, 02 November 2005 09:40
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have some more pics this week as well
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Wed, 02 November 2005 11:56
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Darnit, now I'm getting excited about it... I'll keep an eye on this thread
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Thu, 03 November 2005 08:19
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Fri, 04 November 2005 01:42
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this maybe a dumb question but whats wrong with standard 20V throttles?
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Fri, 04 November 2005 05:51
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sam start reading from the top as in 1st thread then you might be able to work it out why im doing this
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Fri, 04 November 2005 06:48
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nope sorry I must be missing something, I read the whole thread twice and I still dont get it.
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Fri, 04 November 2005 06:55
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make it simple for you ,Altezza 3sge motor using 47mm 20 v quads now ,but need to go bigger, to 50mm so im making up castings to make 50mm 1s .does that do it for you know sammy
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Fri, 04 November 2005 07:44
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yeah thanks, I hope it works out for you. Do you have any pics during the casting process or of the moulds you used?
so do you want to sell your old 20V throttles?
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Fri, 04 November 2005 07:52
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which 1s sam the 45mm or the 47mm
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Fri, 04 November 2005 15:09
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to buy: whichever is cheaper, both are overkill. Please PM me if they are for sale, thanks
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Frankston, Victoria
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Sat, 05 November 2005 01:42
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Any chance of making some up to fit a 16V head?
Kev
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Sat, 05 November 2005 03:00
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there are already 16V to 20V throttle manifolds available... T3??
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Frankston, Victoria
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Sat, 05 November 2005 03:55
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Yeah... an extra $300-500 ontop of the $1100?... It would be easier if he made another jig for 16V and priced them the same as the 20V, I'm quite sure alot of 16V owners would be interested...
Kev.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Sat, 05 November 2005 04:42
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a lot of the 16v owners just use 20v throttle bodies... You'd be trying pretty hard to make the stock 20v throttles become a major restriction on a NA 20v.
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Sat, 05 November 2005 04:48
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I wouldn't be suprised that it would be hard for 20V throttles to be even a minor resriction for a 16V, or a 20V for that matter.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Frankston, Victoria
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Sat, 05 November 2005 05:33
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True that, I mean think about it, the amount of air you suck in has to go out of your exhaust as converted gas. If you have four 40mm throttle bodies, that means that you can suck in enough (cold) air to the equivelant to a single 81mm pipe.
Now think of the factor that when in an engine, air would heat up, convert into gas, and then go into your exhaust. In that process the air would expand very rapidly. In this process it would mean that you would need approximately a 102mm exhaust (4.01 inches) to flow that amount of air.
Therefore, if you have a 4.01inch exhaust, and are still being "held back", that would be the time to go for bigger throttle bodies...
My mind hurts now...
Kev.
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Location:
Menai area of Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Sat, 05 November 2005 05:48
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Kev: If the engine pushes the exhaust out at higher pressure than the one atmosphere pressure that when the air is "sucked" into the engine (in an NA engine) why wouldn't a smaller exhaust handle the volume ? ... and why don't V8s have huuuge exhausts ?
... and I'd love to see your working out of the 81mm.
Have you ever heard of a publication called 'Scientific Design of Exhaust and Intake Systems' ? It's an oldie but a goodie and there are others around that are worth a read.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Sat, 05 November 2005 07:06
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thing with both exhaust and intake is that the events happen one at a time
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Frankston, Victoria
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Sat, 05 November 2005 12:05
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Eh, my brother did the calculations, I always sucked at maths.
Just an odd bit of research I did after hearing the V8 statement.. The intake port (singular) on a Chevy Small-block V8 carby is something like 58mm, and that handles 8 cylinders and an engine with a capacity of 6.5 litres (400 cubic inches)...
Maybe there is some weird thing I'm missing here, such as a difference with the carby setup or something, but my thoughts are that with an engine of that capacity you would need a tonne more fuel, and to even it out you would need a tonne more air. Hence if the 20V 4AGE has FOUR 40mm ports... where the hell is the need for more than that...
I'm not trying to blaze this or anything, I'm here to learn, so if someone can explain this to me I'd be greatful...
Kev.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Sat, 05 November 2005 12:34
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what it comes down to is flow.
big V8 doesn't usually rev that much..
but anyway, work out how much air is consumed by engine (ie capacity/2 x rpm = L/min) and hen convert that to a velocity thru the given throttle area..
aim is something like?? 300feet/min velocity as max?? i forgot specifics...
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: eoi casting up new 20v throttles [pics are up ]
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Sat, 05 November 2005 22:41
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the thing is the early silver had 43 mm and then 45mm for the black top ,but if you made a hybrid say 7a block and crank ,offset grind the crank new rods and pistons ,plus new cams for the 16v head machine out buckets for the 3rd gen 3sge 1s im talking 500 thou lift here with bigport head would be 1940odd cc here you would need at least 48mm to maybe 50 even at 8000 rpm for flow
my altezza motor has had 45mm went to 47mm picked up power all through the rev range to 8600rpm
my exhaust primaries are 50mm the secondaries are 55mm and finals are 60, so 2and half inch exhaust to the back
the cams im using are 540 thou inlet and in the 500 thou on the exhaust power is from 4500 to 8800 before it drops off ,even so it is very easy to drive idles at 750rpm and has a flat torque curve from 4000rpm to 8800 rpm so putting 50mm is not going to hurt this motor only improve it
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