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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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GZE flywheel RWD/mongrel clutch
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Thu, 06 June 2002 12:35
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My ae86 seems to have an incessant clutch gobbling habbit (bloody turbo...) So far I've gone through 2 daikin/exedy clutches in a coupla months, and at around $500 a pop it aint something I'm gonna throw a party about... So far I've used SKC321 and SKO321, which are supposed to be 2800lb clamping force, with the SKC one being 3 puck ceramic. Both these clutches felt great at first, but they just dont seem to last too long...
I'm using a T50 box (which so far seems to still love me) with a normal 4ag flywheel. The GZE flywheel has got a much bigger clutch area on it, which I would imagine with a decent clutch would solve my problem but for the fact that it dont fit in the bellhousing...
Does anyone know how much has got to be chewed from the housing to stuff it in? I don't want to end up taking away all the metal and having something that is going to break.
More to the point, has anyone got any other ideas? (quad plate is out of the question, unless someone can tell me next weeks winning lottery numbers...) Would be much appreciated!
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GZE flywheel RWD/mongrel clutch
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Thu, 06 June 2002 13:57
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your driving style might be the reason why the clutches keep dying (  ) on you...
i dont know what the correct way of driving is...but that could be the reason..
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GZE flywheel RWD/mongrel clutch
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Fri, 07 June 2002 13:24
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Yes, well, driving style can ruin clutches very quickly... although I do have weak clutch in mind whenever I drive the thing - e.g. no 8000rpm sidesteps, haven't been to the drags, etc. It seems to first show trouble when the cars already rolling and I put the foot down a bit to speed up, just as it comes on boost (and therefore places a sudden gawdawful torque loading on the clutch...)  
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I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GZE flywheel RWD/mongrel clutch
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Sat, 08 June 2002 07:20
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ZE flywheel is bigger diameter right? so once you've chomped out the bell housing to fit it in, what do you then do about the starter motor?? cos if the starter motor is mounted a set distance from the crank, using a bigger diameter flywheel will mean that there will be no more starter motor, it will foul the flywheel (is this the case?????)... hehehe, never have to worry about the clutch slipping when the engine's can't start...
this is just my thoughts, i could be wrong, but to me it seems solving one problem may cause another... can anyone clear this up for me???
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GZE flywheel RWD/mongrel clutch
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Sat, 08 June 2002 11:36
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The good news is that this is not actually the case. The GZE flywheel uses the same ring gear as all the others, the difference comes from the fact that instead of having the clutch bolted on in the middle of the flywheel, it is bolted onto lumps on the outside edge giving a much greater diameter of clamping face. The problem is that these 'lumps' hit against the edge of the bellhousing, so I understand. I won't be able to know by how much until I take my gearbox out again, I was just asking beforehand so that I might be able to hear from someone thats already done this. 
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Location:
up yours!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GZE flywheel RWD/mongrel clutch
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Sun, 09 June 2002 01:26
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its true dude!
you have to chop out the bellhousing!
if you have any questions let me know!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GZE flywheel RWD/mongrel clutch
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Sun, 09 June 2002 03:41
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yogi
are you still running a T50 behind your turbo 4AGE??? if so, how does it seem to cope with the power and torque of the engine???
as for the ZE flywheel inside the T50 bell housing, how much does it need to be modified to fit??? would the amount of material that is removed lead to any problems with the strength of the bell housing??? would you reccomend this for an N/A engine, or is the flywheel too heavy???
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Location:
Western Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GZE flywheel RWD/mongrel clutch
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Sun, 09 June 2002 04:55
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The GZE flywheel is lighter.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GZE flywheel RWD/mongrel clutch
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Sun, 09 June 2002 06:51
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hehehe, just after i posted my last reply, i though "i bet the ZE flywheel is lighter" of course i was not at all sure, i just figured that the advantages of a light flywheel would be the same for all engines, n/a or forced induction.
ok, so now i know this, who know what the actual weights of the flywheels are, and also, who knows how much modification is equired to fit the ZE flywheel in the T50 bell housing?
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GZE flywheel RWD/mongrel clutch
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Sun, 09 June 2002 10:54
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Yeah the ZE flywheel is a whole heap lighter, I'll weigh them up tomorrow and letcha know by how much. All I want to know is how much chopping around the housing needs in order to fit it in (pleeeez yogi?) 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GZE flywheel RWD/mongrel clutch
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Sun, 09 June 2002 12:46
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mrshin...
it sounds to me like you have a few flywheels lying around for you to weigh them up without much trouble... might that mean that the ZE flywheel is excess, and that you might be interested in selling it to me??? let me know how this sounds to you...
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Location:
up yours!
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GZE flywheel RWD/mongrel clutch
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Mon, 10 June 2002 00:33
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GZE flywheel may be lighter but it carries all of its weight in those big chunks of steel on the outside of the flywheel.
If you measure the rotational inertial (this is what we are actually wanting to reduce) compared to a 4A-GE one i think you might find the GE wheel is "lighter" as such. DOnt quote me, i have not meassured each of them but from looking at them, this is how it looks to me.,
Yogi, did you use the GZE wheel? maybe teh dellow housing was made for a GE flywheel? those big chunks on teh GZE wheel again can cause clearence probs.
Cheers
Mike
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GZE flywheel RWD/mongrel clutch
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Mon, 10 June 2002 10:06
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I've weighed the GZE flywheel today, 6 kilos worth - bloody scales I had went off the dial when I tried to weigh the NA one!
As for rotational inertia, well I suppose I could get to work and make a whole heap of measurements, swallow a few reams of paper and work out exactly what the difference between them is - my only observation is that the supercharged engine seems to have a quicker throttle response than any of the other 4AGs (20v included), even with that nasty looking intake plumbing/manifold/throttle they have.
W58s, yeah I know they're quite breakable, all comes down to treatment really  I've seen other peoples cars with them, and the resulting pile of metal they collect a few weeks later. However, I expected my t50 to self destruct, yet it still seems quite happy to be there. I'm guessing that it's probably not that much different grinding out the t50 housing compared to the dellows W5x one. Thing is, is that likely to help me using a 9" clutch over the 8" one? Theoretically I suppose it should.
Last clutch I bought I asked everyone I could find and it seems that didn't pay off. "Yeah, you won't break that one, you'll bust that box waaaay before" - but it doesn't seem to work that way. I'm thinking of using the GZE flywheel with a decent 3 puck plate, with the correct spline for the t50 (i wonder if such a thing exists...)
As for the GZE flywheel, if I don't end up using it, then yeah its for sale I guess.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GZE flywheel RWD/mongrel clutch
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Mon, 10 June 2002 13:38
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mrshin,
you do know that you can get clutch plates custom made?
there is a place up here in brissy that does them, even though they probably wont be much good to you in melb they custom make the puck clutch plates and also make custom pressure plates and that sort of crap,
i bought a new heavy duty pressure plate throwout bearing and exedy clutch plate off them for $200 for the celica
i think a custom clutch plate is like $100 extra
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: GZE flywheel RWD/mongrel clutch
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Wed, 12 June 2002 07:58
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Yah, I know that you can get clutches made to do almost anything, thing is they few places I've rung up about that kind of thing don't seem overly interested in doing a great deal for me... Whats the name/number of the one in Brissy? I'll have a talk to them.
I had a look at putting the GZE flywheel into the T50 today, and while I think with a bit of grinding, machining and shifting of the ring gear it could be done, it might be something best avoided. I suppose the dellows kit with a w58 and a decent GZE clutch would be the go. What clutch do you use yogi? Maybe some rediculously overpriced twin plate GZE clutch would keep it together, and let me get away with buying a half decent turbo/cooler in the future
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Cluch for RWD 4A-GZE
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Thu, 13 June 2002 12:22
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well i used a NA flywheel, had it redrilled to suit a nissan silvia ( i think, i know it was nissan) pressure plate, theat pressure plate was gutted and fitted with a truck/4wd diaphram spring and it has a clamp load of 2000lb.
runnign a full face friction plate i can chirp into 4th. On a hard shift with around 200hp it still grabs REAL hard.
cost 340 for the clutch, paid 150 for origianl flywheel/clutch. Had that modded for 30% increase in clmap load but it was not real good, died after a year.
Cheers
Mike
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