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Location:
canberra
Registered:
November 2005
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Help on my 21R-C
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Sun, 06 November 2005 07:36
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Ive just recently bought a third generation 1982 celica (RA60) with a 21R-C engine. Down the track a bit I'm looking to modify the car so that it puts out considerably more power. I'm not too knowledgeble with cars so I'm wondering if anybody can help me with any of these points.
1. How possible is it to modify the 21R-C engine. Is there the possibility of getting a turbo for it, or are then any other lower grade mods that would provide a good power increase. If there is a turbo is the power increase even that good because I'm aware that the 21R-C only puts out 90 or so horsepower stock.
2. If option 1 is bad, what are some good engines that I could convert to for my celica. I'd be leaning towards a turbo aspirated engine but am more concerned with power outoput as oppose to anything else. Do any of you guys know of people who have done engine conversions on 3g celica's? if this was the way to go, how expensive would it be to get everything fully installed a modified to get the car on the road with the new engine. Does anybody know of any places in canberra where this could be done? I would be willing to go to melbourne or sydney as well.
Any help on this topic is much appreciated or even any different suggestions would be helpful. 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Help on my 21R-C
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Sun, 06 November 2005 10:01
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just to help you along here's a google search for RA60 and turbo of this site:
click me.
but in a nutshell...
-21RC is a truck motor so you'll spend a lot of money making little improvement
-you could do a 1G-GTE upgrade with help from friends and plenty of reading but it would require engineering at the end of install
-workshop would only be required if your have more money than you know what to spend on and if you dont know how to use any tools at all.
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Location:
canberra
Registered:
November 2005
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Re: Help on my 21R-C
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Sun, 06 November 2005 10:28
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Thanks for that man, that link provided some insights into what other ppl have done, few more questions though:
1. Do u know which cars 1g-gte's comes from, the specs say they put out over 200hp. Would this be too big for an RA60 to handle? I also beleive that they come either supercharged or twin turbo, is this true, and if so which one do u think would be better.
2. I don't think I would have the time to do an engine conversion, let alone read up so that i have a god enough knowledge to be able to do it in the backyard with friends. How much would I expect to pay to get a workshop to do it? and by engineering do u mean tweeking with gear ratios, compressino ratio etc after the engine has been fitted or something else?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Help on my 21R-C
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Sun, 06 November 2005 10:34
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you could PM "NARK" off these forums, as he has done the 1g-gte into ra60.
the 1g-gte is the turbo... the 1g-gze is supercharged.
the 3rd gen 1g (the one you want) puts out ~210bhp stock. this is not too much for an ra60, but you'll have traction issues with that little single spinner. also no IRS can be a problem, depending on how you drive your car.
for a workshop to do this for you, $10k minimum. of course, you'd probably also want a completely new exhaust made up, possibly get a decent fmic mounted and plumbed....
engineering just means you take it to an engineer and get him to certify that the modifications that have been done to your car are safe. that way hwy patrol cops will not anally violate you when they pull you over.
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Location:
canberra
Registered:
November 2005
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Re: Help on my 21R-C
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Sun, 06 November 2005 10:41
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thanks a lot for your help guys but if I had to face a price like that then I'd just go a buy a new car. Anybody got info on what small mods I could do with the 21R-C even if its just the exhaust or something, figures would be good too.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Help on my 21R-C
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Sun, 06 November 2005 11:25
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the phrase "polishing a turd" is often used
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Help on my 21R-C
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Sun, 06 November 2005 12:35
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| jc_cel wrote on Sun, 06 November 2005 21:41 |
thanks a lot for your help guys but if I had to face a price like that then I'd just go a buy a new car. Anybody got info on what small mods I could do with the 21R-C even if its just the exhaust or something, figures would be good too.
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id probly just open up the exhaust and leave it at that. start doing other things and it will become a gas guzzling piece of crap
what he said
| draven wrote on Sun, 06 November 2005 22:25 |
the phrase "polishing a turd" is often used
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Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Help on my 21R-C
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Sun, 06 November 2005 22:24
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i cant stress enough, dont spend a single cent trying to get anything out of the 21R... such a waste of time, and money that could be spent on a real engine.
iv put a 'stage 1' ebay camshaft in my 21R, exhaust note got deeper, think it revs a tiny bit better.... wasnt worth the months i waited for it to ship from the states 
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Location:
Townsville North Qld
Registered:
June 2003
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 Re: Help on my 21R-C
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Sun, 06 November 2005 23:30
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Im currently working on putting a 22RE in a mate's RA60. These motors are also a truck motor, but having the 2.4L capacity means even though they may not have more horsepower, they have a bucket more torque, which in turn creates damn good acceleration in standard form(dont bother revving past 4500)... from there, being an EFI motor, a turbo can be fitted without too much hassal, and will even further improve the torque output of these motors, to such a state where your T series diff will melt like butter in the oven. An F series diff will fix this problem. The 22RE can be sourced from a number of cars, the most popular seems to be the RT142 corona... as these usually havent been thrashed, and not too many ppl care if a corona becomes a cube. Engineering isnt much of a problem... look at the DBA website at the brake specs between the RT142 corona and RA60 celica... i know the RA60 has better front brakes, and should have identical rear brakes to a drum reared RT142. If you can get hold of a disc rear RT142 avante that doesnt have IRS, these rear brakes will fit on your standard diff, or an F series diff(talk to brett celicacoupe). Diff should pass, though once again, an F series can be made to fit without much problem(also see brett celicacoupe), and if you destroy that diff even with the turbo... you gotta stop putting sand in your diff.
hope this gives you another option.
Cheers, Owen
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
October 2005
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Re: Help on my 21R-C
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Fri, 11 November 2005 01:34
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As for the 21R motor being a truck motor its not true!!
I have rebuilt many 21R motors, over the last few years,
and i have found many ways to get more power from a stock 21R.
I start with the stock inlet, and modd it to take a DGAV WEBER, from a Ford cortina. slip in a set of headders or extractors,
and 2 inch exaust.
headders can be modified from a 22RE out of a RT142 corona.
useing the Cam sharft from a 22RE will be the same,
as a "Stage 1" cam of Ebay (sorry mate)
Crane Cams can also supply, cams from mild to wild,
and are imported localy here in Adelaide!
A good port job will also help.
I rev my motors out to 6500 rpm daily, many people are suprised
by the power i can obtaine on a BUDGET. is 130hp ok??? 
PM or Email me for more details.
i can supply and modify most parts.
PS. Fuel comsumption Down! fuel emmisions Down! Power UP! 
I love WEBER's easy to tune!
[Updated on: Fri, 11 November 2005 01:52]
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Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Help on my 21R-C
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Fri, 11 November 2005 01:55
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| GA61XX wrote on Fri, 11 November 2005 12:34 |
As for the 21R motor being a truck motor its not true!!
I have rebuilt many 21R motors, over the last few years,
and i have found many ways to get more power from a stock 21R.
I start with the stock inlet, and modd it to take a DGAV WEBER, from a Ford cortina. slip in a set of headders or extractors,
and 2 inch exaust.
headders can be modified from a 22RE out of a RT142 corona.
useing the Cam sharft from a 22RE will be the same,
as a "Stage 1" cam of Ebay (sorry mate)
Crane Cams can also supply, cams from mild to wild,
and are imported localy here in Adelaide!
A good port job will also help.
I rev my motors out to 6500 rpm daily, many people are suprised
by the power i can obtaine on a BUDGET. is 130hp ok???
PM or Email me for more details.
i can supply and modify most parts.
PS. Fuel comsumption Down! fuel emmisions Down! Power UP!
I love WEBER's easy to tune!
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Impressive.
Where do you think the most improvement came from? I've tried running a 32/36 weber on my 21R, I can't honestly say I found it much improved over stock... however I didn't rejet it at all, survived with a flat spot off idle for nearly a year
I suppose i'm not suprised about the ebay cam
Cheers
James
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
October 2005
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Re: Help on my 21R-C
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Fri, 11 November 2005 02:14
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Haveing the right mod's on the inlet, so as not to restrict air/fuel flow.
Port and polish the head, and port match the inlet to the head, will help as well. I do this to every motor i work on!
Jet sizes are the Key to a good tune up!
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Help on my 21R-C
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Fri, 11 November 2005 02:32
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| GA61XX wrote on Fri, 11 November 2005 12:34 |
As for the 21R motor being a truck motor its not true!!
I have rebuilt many 21R motors, over the last few years,
and i have found many ways to get more power from a stock 21R.
I start with the stock inlet, and modd it to take a DGAV WEBER, from a Ford cortina. slip in a set of headders or extractors,
and 2 inch exaust.
headders can be modified from a 22RE out of a RT142 corona.
useing the Cam sharft from a 22RE will be the same,
as a "Stage 1" cam of Ebay (sorry mate)
Crane Cams can also supply, cams from mild to wild,
and are imported localy here in Adelaide!
A good port job will also help.
I rev my motors out to 6500 rpm daily, many people are suprised
by the power i can obtaine on a BUDGET. is 130hp ok???
PM or Email me for more details.
i can supply and modify most parts.
PS. Fuel comsumption Down! fuel emmisions Down! Power UP!
I love WEBER's easy to tune!
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save your money, sell the 21r and buy a 1GGTE 
much smoother, nearly double the power and they have much more potential. they would also use much much less fuel than a modified 21r. 1g's rev to 6500rpm as well, but at that stage they are making 210hp  .
thats my thoughts. did i mention the 1ggte is better than a 21r in every way?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
October 2005
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Re: Help on my 21R-C
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Fri, 11 November 2005 02:54
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Nicely said. 
But for Power on a budget you cant go past the 21R.
Yes the twin turbo 1G-GTE may put out more power,
but at what cost.
as i said the 21R motor is a good sauce of Cheep Power!!
Only 210ph from your 1G-GTE??
try 220+hp from a shitty old normally asparated 21R. 
What would i get if i turbo it? you may get 350+hp!
PS. as my call sign imply's i own a GA61XX ,
1G powered celica/supra
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Help on my 21R-C
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Fri, 11 November 2005 03:31
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| GA61XX wrote on Fri, 11 November 2005 13:54 |
try 220+hp from a shitty old normally asparated 21R.
What would i get if i turbo it? you may get 350+hp!
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pics or ban!!!
fitting a 1ggte to my ra40 only ended up costing me about $800 after i sold the existing 18rg/w50.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
October 2005
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Re: Help on my 21R-C
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Fri, 11 November 2005 04:26
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It's amazing what a "Stage 5" cam, tuned length extractors, and a set of DCOE WEBER's, can do!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Help on my 21R-C
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Fri, 11 November 2005 04:49
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"stage" anything sucks teh wang.
give us duration and lift
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
October 2005
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Re: Help on my 21R-C
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Sat, 12 November 2005 08:56
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Since you must know the details, here they are,
Max lift ,510/510. Duration ,320. Duration @.050 ,270 .
11:1 compresion, double row valve springs,
big port job, modds to oil feeds,
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