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Location:
Melbourne, Victoria
Registered:
March 2005
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Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Mon, 07 November 2005 00:34
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My new headunit has a 5 amp pre-out and is connected to an amp that powers my 6x9's. My old unit had a 3 amp pre-out. So are my 6x9's powered up more now?
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Location:
perth
Registered:
June 2005
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Mon, 07 November 2005 00:38
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nope -good decks dont even come with built in amps.
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Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Mon, 07 November 2005 00:40
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| stealth007008 wrote on Mon, 07 November 2005 11:38 |
nope -good decks dont even come with built in amps.
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really, can you name a few. or post some links?
i never knew that. i might buy one.
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Location:
Gawler, SA
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Mon, 07 November 2005 01:18
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Nope, higher input voltage (if you amp can handle it) will just reduce intereference.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Mon, 07 November 2005 01:52
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??? 5V compared to 3V ???
Have you ever heard someone say the "level" on your amp is not a volume knob!
Now you know what they mean. Your "level" should be matched to the level of your RCA's. Therefore if your RCA level has increased, your amp level should be decreased, and the same volume reamains.
There are plenty of knobs who kill amps by ingnoring this because the level does essentially mean turn it up more and it goes louder. However when the amp level is cranked your amp thinks that the input voltage is very low and all the circuitry is being over-worked and sound quality is right up the shit.
Always better to oversize your amp and under-run it. Given that this costs more tho, a LOT of ppl elect to blow up a few undersized ones (and ultimately spend twice as much) before coming to the realisation that manufacturers & installers say things for a reason.
As Callifo said, advantage of high level RCA's is mainly less amplification required, so interference picked up is amplified less too.
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Location:
parra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Mon, 07 November 2005 02:00
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a better way to describe it is...
if your amp has an input capable of say .300 volts to 4 volts... your new deck is actually to powerfull for your amp.. BECAUSE.
look at the input stage like a gate... if your trying to push 5 volts into a 4 volt gate, your actually cutting off part of the signal... if you look at a rca signal which is an AC signal, it looks like a sign wave... i.e up and down all the time and the curve being rounded..
but if you've cut the signal down to go into your amp the signal will change..
you'll cut the top and bottom part of the wave form and make it square... so untill the wave comes back down to a range that your amp can see, that square part of the wave becomes DC current...
and in short, this is what starts/causes distortion.
DC current is bad for speakers and bad for the input stage of any amp. and will only cause damage to both components.
on the other hand if your amp is capable of taking the new signal... like mic* said... you should match the "gain" on your amp with your new rca signal strength.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Mon, 07 November 2005 02:09
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Thats an excellent analogy mate.
Did you come up with that? The gate thing i mean. Its just a very effective way to explain what happens to the signal.
...The bass notes are the big waves that have big amplitudes which get "cut off" or have flat DC spots when the level is too high. Hence the reason that you hear the bass start to distort your music before other frequencies.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Mon, 07 November 2005 06:28
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the alpine phantom face units dont have a built in amp. my mate has the one prior to current and it only has RCA/Digital output and sounds *fantastic*
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Registered:
October 2005
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Mon, 07 November 2005 06:47
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Does having a t25 feeding into a t28 mean I can get more boost?
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Location:
parra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Mon, 07 November 2005 07:43
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| mic* wrote on Mon, 07 November 2005 13:09 |
Thats an excellent analogy mate.
Did you come up with that? The gate thing i mean. Its just a very effective way to explain what happens to the signal.
...The bass notes are the big waves that have big amplitudes which get "cut off" or have flat DC spots when the level is too high. Hence the reason that you hear the bass start to distort your music before other frequencies.
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i've been in the car audio trade for around 6 years...
its a little something i picked up along the way somewhere!
it helps people that otherwise wouldnt understand...
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Location:
perth
Registered:
June 2005
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Tue, 08 November 2005 02:21
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alpine CDA-7998R Bass Engine PRO CD/MP3 Player/Tuner
thats one cant be bothered looking for any more. if u were serious.. just look at the high end decks - their normally the most expensive
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Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Tue, 08 November 2005 03:03
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| Quote: |
a better way to describe it is...
if your amp has an input capable of say .300 volts to 4 volts... your new deck is actually to powerfull for your amp.. BECAUSE.
look at the input stage like a gate... if your trying to push 5 volts into a 4 volt gate, your actually cutting off part of the signal... if you look at a rca signal which is an AC signal, it looks like a sign wave... i.e up and down all the time and the curve being rounded..
but if you've cut the signal down to go into your amp the signal will change..
you'll cut the top and bottom part of the wave form and make it square... so untill the wave comes back down to a range that your amp can see, that square part of the wave becomes DC current...
and in short, this is what starts/causes distortion.
DC current is bad for speakers and bad for the input stage of any amp. and will only cause damage to both components.
on the other hand if your amp is capable of taking the new signal... like mic* said... you should match the "gain" on your amp with your new rca signal strength.
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so what can we do to drop down the voltage to the right one on the amp? i need to do this i think.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2005
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Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Wed, 09 November 2005 23:40
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| illuminatus wrote on Tue, 08 November 2005 14:03 |
so what can we do to drop down the voltage to the right one on the amp? i need to do this i think.
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Turn down the output (volume control) on the head unit.
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Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Wed, 09 November 2005 23:52
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| illuminatus wrote on Wed, 09 November 2005 12:53 |
i checked my amp, and it has a button for selecting input volts.
it says 100mv-2v, and 2-8v.
is that normal?
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you found it.
100mv-2v would be for speaker level input and teh 2-8v woul dbe for line level.
is there a pot as well? (a spinning knob) put it at about 2/3 the way.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Thu, 10 November 2005 01:04
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| illuminatus wrote on Wed, 09 November 2005 13:23 |
i checked my amp, and it has a button for selecting input volts.
it says 100mv-2v, and 2-8v.
is that normal?
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Button??? Turning knob, yes. Button ? 
You find out what level your RCA's are. This is determined by your source (head) unit. It will be in the manual / instructions, or find out off the manufacturer. Hypothetically say your source unit had 5V RCA's, your level knob goes from 2V to 8V so it would be halfway.
If you dont know what you've got then a very simplistic process for matching amp's to source units is...
1. Make sure source unit equaliser is set to flat. Ie no bass boost etc.
2. Turn up VOLUME on source unit to approx 3/4 volume
3. Turn up amp LEVEL slowly until distortion begins to occur.
4. Back the level off very slightly or until all audible distortion disappears.
I prefer to do this usually with a heavy metal / rock track because i find this type of "music" most punishing.
If you have a sub-RCA then set that to approx 3/4 when tuning too.
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Location:
parra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Thu, 10 November 2005 05:38
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| mic* wrote on Thu, 10 November 2005 12:04 |
| illuminatus wrote on Wed, 09 November 2005 13:23 |
i checked my amp, and it has a button for selecting input volts.
it says 100mv-2v, and 2-8v.
is that normal?
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Button??? Turning knob, yes. Button ?
You find out what level your RCA's are. This is determined by your source (head) unit. It will be in the manual / instructions, or find out off the manufacturer. Hypothetically say your source unit had 5V RCA's, your level knob goes from 2V to 8V so it would be halfway.
If you dont know what you've got then a very simplistic process for matching amp's to source units is...
1. Make sure source unit equaliser is set to flat. Ie no bass boost etc.
2. Turn up VOLUME on source unit to approx 3/4 volume
3. Turn up amp LEVEL slowly until distortion begins to occur.
4. Back the level off very slightly or until all audible distortion disappears.
I prefer to do this usually with a heavy metal / rock track because i find this type of "music" most punishing.
If you have a sub-RCA then set that to approx 3/4 when tuning too.
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there you go dude... thats your answer!
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Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
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Location:
parra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Thu, 10 November 2005 06:01
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.9v means your deck is not even putting out a volt on the line level...
meaning your amp SHOULD be on the higher input sesitivity level!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Thu, 10 November 2005 06:14
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What kind of amp is this?
I have not seen any that i can think of that have two sets of RCA inputs for different levels. This is kinda intruiging me.
Usually you would see one level knob that covers the whole range. For example 8V-100mV - and as you can see the higher unit is first coz the higher your input level the less the amp needs to do - that way when you turn your amp level knob clockwise (towards a low input signal - 100mV) the amp works harder.
Can you clearly describe to me what you have to be sure.
From the sounds of it tho what NVD05X has said is what ya gotta do; put it in the 2V-100mV spot however this is done and tune it up for 0.9 if that is what you measured.
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Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Thu, 10 November 2005 10:52
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there has been a mis-understanding.
there is a button, when you press it in it is 2v-8v. when you press it and it pops out its 100mv-2v. there is only 1 button and 1 set of rca for fronts and 1 button and set of rca for rears.
heres a scan from the manual(i cbf going to car atm to take a pic)
its a pretty good amp. i havnt seen another amp with phase shifting(but i havent looked).
so, i should turn the knob nearly half way to set it to .9v?
also what is MOSFET? just interested.
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
September 2005
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Thu, 10 November 2005 11:59
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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
The MOSFET, or Metal-Oxide Semiconductor Field-Effect Transistor, is by far the most common field-effect transistor in both digital and analog circuits (The 'Metal' in the name is an anachronism from early chips where gates were metal; modern chips use polysilicon gates, but are still called MOSFETs).
now can all u audio gurus please come have a look at my dilemma http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&t h=86160&start=0&rid=12298&S=6964a1693b f9ad305801afd80ee64c7f
any help is greatly appreciated
~andrew~
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2005
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Fri, 11 November 2005 00:47
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| Quote: |
there is a button, when you press it in it is 2v-8v. when you press it and it pops out its 100mv-2v. there is only 1 button and 1 set of rca for fronts and 1 button and set of rca for rears.
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that is what i wanted to know. Thanx.
Have it pushed out.
I dont like the way they have wtritten 100mV-2V coz on the actual level adjuster full anticlockwise will be 2V and full clockwise will be 100mV.
It just makes it bullshit for ppl to try to learn for themselves. Something so simple makes it completely impossible to understand what any of it means.
Anyway, somewhere in the middle with the button out.
Tell me what each channel is running and i can help you tune it a lil more.
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Location:
parra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Fri, 11 November 2005 06:28
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most good amps have a phase switch on them...
although its usually a switch for 0 OR 180 degrees... not a knob for 0 TO 180
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Location:
eastern suburbs, melbourne
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: Does my new headunit make my amp more powerful?
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Fri, 11 November 2005 09:27
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| mic* wrote on Fri, 11 November 2005 11:47 |
that is what i wanted to know. Thanx.
Have it pushed out.
I dont like the way they have wtritten 100mV-2V coz on the actual level adjuster full anticlockwise will be 2V and full clockwise will be 100mV.
It just makes it bullshit for ppl to try to learn for themselves. Something so simple makes it completely impossible to understand what any of it means.
Anyway, somewhere in the middle with the button out.
Tell me what each channel is running and i can help you tune it a lil more.
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i have adjusted it like it says above, but the rears are too loud, so i will put the volume down on the rears.
what do you mean by tuning?
i also have another problem. when i turn up the volume on the headunit above 50% the bass goes down. at first i tought it might have been the cross overs on the front speakers, but the bass drops on the rears too.
any ideas? i thought it might be the DSO feature on the head unit, maybe it works like LOUD.
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